Star Wars: The Force Awakens

Started by The_Tempest260 pages

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't like this trait especially coupled with his cowardly moments. I get that he was successful but all villains always go down despite their reign. I disagree because by that point he had amassed too much power and it ended badly in a manner in which he should have seen coming. Torturing Vader's son in front of him and he let his guard completely down.

He is the most powerful but he tried to flee from Yoda which even makes that act of cowardice look worse. He also begged Windu which I can't stomach. Both acts together are tough to swallow. Sheev was always in an ideal situation to play both sides. Someone like Khan wasn't. He was awoken and had to play the hand he was dealt while being on his own against a galactic power. Khan still killed the Palpatine of his universe in Admiral Marcus.

Pretty much every baddie I can think of has "cowardly" moments, Khan and Voldemort included. Palps is inordinately successful for a mainstream pop culture baddie. Three movies dedicated to him basically winning in a big way all throughout.

Again, pretty much every bad guy I can think of has "cowardly" moments. Sheev running from Yoda was smart but he went toe-to-toe with him and laughed his ass off when Yoda didn't give him a chance. He begged Mace, sure, but it was a charade to tip Anakin's hand.

Sheev worked to get into a position to play both sides, he wasn't born in it lol. Marcus and Palpatine aren't remotely comparable, tbh.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Pretty much every baddie I can think of has "cowardly" moments, Khan and Voldemort included. Palps is inordinately successful for a mainstream pop culture baddie. Three movies dedicated to him basically winning in a big way all throughout.

Again, pretty much every bad guy I can think of has "cowardly" moments. Sheev running from Yoda was smart but he went toe-to-toe with him and laughed his ass off when Yoda didn't give him a chance. He begged Mace, sure, but it was a charade to tip Anakin's hand.

Sheev worked to get into a position to play both sides, he wasn't born in it lol. Marcus and Palpatine aren't remotely comparable, tbh.

No, Khan and Voldemort had no cowardly moments.

Sheev running away against a peer from a fair fight is despicable. It's unforgivable to me. He laughs at odd times because he himself almost fell off the pod. He begged Mace but was still in an unenviable position.

He wasn't awoken into being forced into aiding someone with galactic power. Sheev had the benefit of surprise and manipulating both sides. Most aren't in that position. Marcus and Sheev both had galactic power and used others to achieve their goals. They were both powerful men hiding behind ulterior motives. They aren't twins but have these traits in common.

Luke is a bad guy? Learn something new everyday. I actually liked in STID that Marcus was preparing for a war that is coming in the Nu timeline.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn. The sheer butthurt from playa and Thor in regards to Quan is amusing.

The notion Snoke has [b]no possibility of surpassing canon!Luke is lolworthy. [/B]

Kek, yep. Who knows, Snoke could potentially come somewhat close to EU! Sheev. 🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, Khan and Voldemort has no cowardly moments.

Sure they do. Khan ran from Spock for like 20 minutes straight in STID. Voldemort spent the entire OOTP hiding from the Ministry and Dumbledore until circumstance forced him to take matters into his own hands. Then he ran from the Aurors at the end. Then rather than try to kill Dumbledore in THBP, he tasked Draco and Snape to do it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Sheev running away against a peer from a fair fight is despicable. It's unforgivable to me.

Nah, that's just smart. Sheev had just declared himself Galactic Emperor and had no reason to fight a fair fight that he might lose. It would be pretty stupid not to try to exercise safer options.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He laughs at odd times because he himself almost fell off the pod.

He laughs because he enjoys combat.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He begged Mace but was still in an unenviable position.

Right. But that was after throwing himself at Mace and three other Jedi Masters and holding his own against Mace alone in a protracted duel. Even on his back, he doesn't show fear until he needs to force Anakin's hand.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't awoken into being forced into aiding someone with galactic power. Sheev had the benefit of surprise and manipulating both sides. Most aren't in that position.

Sheev had to work to be in a position to manipulate both sides and had to work to keep that element of surprise. Khan's return was known only by Marcus. And once he escaped, he chose a more linear, blatant route to vengeance than a subtle power play. Khan wasn't "forced" to do anything, he made choices.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Marcus and Sheev both had galactic power and used others to achieve their goals. They were both powerful men hiding behind ulterior motives. They aren't twins but have these traits in common.

Still a bit of a stretch to compare Marcus and Sheev. Palpatine is vastly more impressive tbh.

Originally posted by playa1258
Luke is a bad guy? Learn something new everyday. I actually liked in STID that Marcus was preparing for a war that is coming in the Nu timeline.
He's a character you enjoy so good, bad, or indifferent he's lame to me.

Marcus laughing at Kirk was a joke to me. Kirk is probably the best officer in the entire fleet.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sure they do. Khan ran from Spock for like 20 minutes straight in STID. Voldemort spent the entire OOTP hiding from the Ministry and Dumbledore until circumstance forced him to take matters into his own hands. Then he ran from the Aurors at the end. Then rather than try to kill Dumbledore in THBP, he tasked Draco and Snape to do it.

Nah, that's just smart. Sheev had just declared himself Galactic Emperor and had no reason to fight a fair fight that he might lose. It would be pretty stupid not to try to exercise safer options.

He laughs because he enjoys combat.

Right. But that was after throwing himself at Mace and three other Jedi Masters and holding his own against Mace alone in a protracted duel. Even on his back, he doesn't show fear until he needs to force Anakin's hand.

Sheev had to work to be in a position to manipulate both sides and had to work to keep that element of surprise. Khan's return was known only by Marcus. And once he escaped, he chose a more linear, blatant route to vengeance than a subtle power play. Khan wasn't "forced" to do anything, he made choices.

Still a bit of a stretch to compare Marcus and Sheev. Palpatine is vastly more impressive tbh.

Ok, let me explain the differences there. Firstly, Spock was armed and Khan just crash landed. It wasn't a fair fight. The instances I referenced were fair one on one fights in which both guys were armed. Secondly, Khan knew he was up against the Enterprise crew since Spock was beamed down and his best bet was to get away since they had an entire group of people, weapons, and the Enterprise whereas he wasn't armed and needed to regroup from the crash.

That is different as Voldemort was amassing power and prior to that wizards were aware of his agenda. After he became known his agenda didn't change. He wasn't out there schmoozing with wizards trying to feign kindness. He planned on being gone by the time the Aurors showed up and he'd be foolish to take on Dumbledore and all those other wizards at the same time. I wouldn't expect Sidious to face off against thirty Jedi either as that would be foolish. I do expect him to face off against a peer while they are both armed.

Voldemort already dueled him. It wasn't smart to send himself out there to do so but made more sense to send an assassin with the element of surprise. The president doesn't go murdering people himself he sends elite forces.

I get why it made sense but I don't go for that kind of weasely live to fight another day when he was in tip top shape and they were both armed. What was entirely stupid is after he fl Yoda he stood there cackling instead of pressing his advantage. He's rather moronic in that regard.

He's sadistic but to laugh at that time is just odd. It's unique but that isn't really a big deal to me either way. It adds to the villainy I guess.

I get that he needed to manipulate Anakin because he was in a no win situation with this saber drawn deflecting it cooking his face all up. It's just not a good thing to see him begging as this supposed all powerful Sith for Anakin to save him.

I'm not saying he wasn't great at manipulating both sides I'm saying I don't usually go for the Machiavellian types like Sheev. He has too many red flags for me.

Marcus wasn't the only one who knew just the general Starfleet officers didn't know. The higher ups made aware of Khan's weaponry etc. had to know. A need to know basis. Khan struck back because let's be honest Marcus wasn't going to stop pursuing him. Khan lured them in strategically knowing their protocol and hit them hard while escaping to Kronos. He eventually got back to Marcus and crushed his skull despite giving himself up for a chance to get his crew back. Khan was allied with no one. Resisting galactic power that Marcus wielded is an amazing feat.

I didn't say they were exactly the same I said they both used whatever means necessary to achieve their goals. They both wielded great authority,power, and operated under a false guise.

Originally posted by playa1258
Marcus laughing at Kirk was a joke to me. Kirk is probably the best officer in the entire fleet.
Spock is the best Starfleet officer.

Maybe, but Kirk is Captain for a reason. Spock is probably the smartest in Starfleet IMO.

Originally posted by playa1258
Maybe, but Kirk is Captain for a reason. Spock is probably the smartest in Starfleet IMO.
They both need each other but Spock is the best of the Enterprise crew.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Concession accepted.

Even copying my words now 😆

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Damn. The sheer butthurt from playa and Thor in regards to Quan is amusing.

The notion Snoke has [b]no possibility of surpassing canon!Luke is lolworthy. [/B]

Well first of all Snoke shouldn't be above or even equal to Luke.

Secondly, You don't get it. Quan is a Luke Hater. He loves the Villains of the franchises he Bandwagons on. He's all ready to jump on the Kylo Ren > Vader and Snoke >> Luke wagon. He will do that no matter what the movie shows.

"Debate him" for a bit, and you'll get it. But I'd suggest not wasting your time like I have.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Even copying my words now 😆
I made that phrase special.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Well first of all Snoke shouldn't be above or even equal to Luke.

Secondly, You don't get it. Quan is a Luke Hater. He loves the Villains of the franchises he Bandwagons on. He's all ready to jump on the Kylo Ren > Vader and Snoke >> Luke wagon. He will do that no matter what the movie shows.

"Debate him" for a bit, and you'll get it. But I'd suggest not wasting your time like I have.

Your opinion is just your opinion. Your refusal to any other way of thinking shows you are the close minded fool I've always said you were.

I don't like Luke at all but he's superior to Vader despite Vader looking cooler, sounding cooler, and being a bad guy. I objectively call it right down the middle. You continue to respond to me while warning others not to. Just back down like you do so well. That's your thing.

new trailer coming soon, and instead of being all jovial about it, you're all picking on poor quan. 🙁

Originally posted by quanchi112
I made that phrase special.

Nah you're obsessed with me. Jumped wagon onto my favorite franchise.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Your opinion is just your opinion. Your refusal to any other way of thinking shows you are the close minded fool I've always said you were.

I don't like Luke at all but he's superior to Vader despite Vader looking cooler, sounding cooler, and being a bad guy. I objectively call it right down the middle. You continue to respond to me while warning others not to. Just back down like you do so well. That's your thing.

Nah you're just a TROLL.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Nah you're obsessed with me. Jumped wagon onto my favorite franchise.

Nah you're just a TROLL.

So you just like this franc hair and must be lukewarm about everything.

You're the one who looks like he's all angry and close minded. A difference of opinion needs to be respected and your close minded views I find distasteful.

May the force be with me.

Originally posted by quanchi112

May the force be with me.

facepalm

Hopefully this isn't the type of fandom EP7 attracts. 😘

Originally posted by Darth Thor
facepalm

Hopefully this isn't the type of fandom EP7 attracts. 😘

You don't speak for Disney and are just an angry, lonely nerd who is consumed by hatred. Your journey to the dark side is almost complete, Padawan.

🙂

Originally posted by Darth Thor
facepalm

Hopefully this isn't the type of fandom EP7 attracts. 😘

can't be worse than the PT fanboys. or worse yet...EU fanboys *shudders*