Sylar/Peter (Heroes) vs Superman/Thor

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I believe it disproves this part of your statement:

So, unless your looking for Anime styled DBZ like speed, you'd be hard pressed to define super speed in any meaningful way. you know, things like weight, inertia, velocity and other things all still play a role.

In fact, if you consider, the only time she slows down is when the impacts actually occur, not when she is swinging the punches. These are actually more consistent with actual definitions of how super speed would actually work, rather than the near weightless impacts and physics seen in anime portrayals.

No, it doesn't really prove my comment wrong. I said you don't see them use super speed while zig zagging through buildings and using complex maneuvers.

Here she travels at superspeed in one direction, but there's a pause before she's able to travel again in another direction. Yes, she doesn't stop while swinging the punch, she stops after the punch hits, but that still proves my point that they usually can only do a simple action in super speed. In this case, it's a bull rush ending in a punch, then a pause, before she does the next action.

If you can show me the kryptonians performing 2 or more complex actions in consistent super speed, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to dis the kryptonians, just calling it as it was shown on screen.

What this shows is that although they're physically capable of super speed, their thought processing is not. So they can only do simple actions in super speed. They need to pause for more complex maneuvers to enable their thought process to catch up.

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, it doesn't really prove my comment wrong. I said you don't see them use super speed while zig zagging through buildings and using complex maneuvers.

Here she travels at superspeed in one direction, but there's a pause before she's able to travel again in another direction. Yes, she doesn't stop while swinging the punch, she stops after the punch hits, but that still proves my point that they usually can only do a simple action in super speed. In this case, it's a bull rush ending in a punch, then a pause, before she does the next action.

If you can show me the kryptonians performing 2 or more complex actions in consistent super speed, I'll gladly admit I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to dis the kryptonians, just calling it as it was shown on screen.

What about half the aerial fight with Zod?

And not really, those men were decimated in less than 3 seconds. That's pretty damn fast, 5 men down in that span is more than fast and complex enough. No human can possibly match that timing against 5 military trained men, armed with assault rifles.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
What about half the aerial fight with Zod?

And not really, those men were decimated in less than 3 seconds. That's pretty damn fast, 5 men down in that span is more than fast and complex enough. No human can possibly match that timing against 5 military trained men, armed with assault rifles.

The punching speed wasn't really anything special. Boxers can launch punches faster than that... as long as they're only hitting a single target in front of them. What made that particular scene impressive was that she was able to cover the distance between the men extremely fast and then punch them... but that speaks more of mobile speed (covering the distance) than actual hand speed.

As for the aerial fight, I'll have to watch it again to be sure, but from what I remember they were flying at incredible speeds and would sometimes slam into each other at great speeds, but everytime they'd grapple or exchange blows they'd do it in normal time.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
I believe it disproves this part of your statement:

So, unless your looking for Anime styled DBZ like speed, you'd be hard pressed to define super speed in any meaningful way. you know, things like weight, inertia, velocity and other things all still play a role.

In fact, if you consider, the only time she slows down is when the impacts actually occur, not when she is swinging the punches. These are actually more consistent with actual definitions of how super speed would actually work, rather than the near weightless impacts and physics seen in anime portrayals.

Plus, its Snyder. Who loves slo-mo (300, anyone?)

So her punching in normal speed....could be his depiction of the Kryp equivalent of a human's slow mo.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The punching speed wasn't really anything special. Boxers can launch punches faster than that... as long as they're only hitting a single target in front of them. What made that particular scene impressive was that she was able to cover the distance between the men extremely fast and then punch them... but that speaks more of mobile speed (covering the distance) than actual hand speed.

She's not machinegun fisting them ala Agent Smith, because she does not need to. You asked for proof of complex maneuvers being performed at faster than humanly possible speeds, and that clip proves it. She clipped 5 men shooting at her from different angles, and threw a fuel tank in the span of 3 to 5 seconds, if you count fast. She certainly wasn't just keeping her arm extended and clotheslining them all in a row like ducks in a shooting gallery.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
She's not machinegun fisting them ala Agent Smith, because she does not need to. You asked for proof of complex maneuvers being performed at faster than humanly possible speeds, and that clip proves it. She clipped 5 men shooting at her from different angles, and threw a fuel tank in the span of 3 to 5 seconds, if you count fast. She certainly wasn't just keeping her arm extended and clotheslining them all in a row like ducks in a shooting gallery.

That's not an example of a complex maneuver though, just a bunch of simple maneuvers done closely together. Had she gone through all of those soldiers in one continuous motion then that would have been a complex maneuver. As it is though, all the was doing was running towards a soldier really fast, punching him once, then pausing... before she repeats the same thing again. Take away that brief pause and then you'd have one continuous complex maneuver.

Did she do it faster than humanly possible? Of course she did. I never claimed she didn't have super speed, just that she can't seem to use it with complex maneuvers.

Since when did we allow TV characters in here?

Originally posted by FrothByte
No, my argument was that they only seem to use superspeed when performing simple maneuvers like flying/running in a straight line, delivering a single punch in a bull rush, etc.

We have not seen them use superspeed in any complex maneuvers, like zig zagging through obstacles, ducking/dodging multiple bullets, stringing together multiple punch combos, etc.

Still waiting for you to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Aka no one should pay attention to a single word you have to say. I agree. 👆

Feel free to stop replying anytime.

if we're using strongest versions of each character then Sylar is at least planetary and Pete is a city buster

plus watching season 3 right now and Sylar's power can work to finding out the future

edit sylar only took out Costa Verde

Originally posted by maxivitopowe
if we're using strongest versions of each character then Sylar is at least planetary and Pete is a city buster

plus watching season 3 right now and Sylar's power can work to finding out the future

edit sylar only took out Costa Verde

Off topic but Heroes is coming back in 2015 for a 13 episode mini.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The punching speed wasn't really anything special. Boxers can launch punches faster than that... as long as they're only hitting a single target in front of them. What made that particular scene impressive was that she was able to cover the distance between the men extremely fast and then punch them... but that speaks more of mobile speed (covering the distance) than actual hand speed.

As for the aerial fight, I'll have to watch it again to be sure, but from what I remember they were flying at incredible speeds and would sometimes slam into each other at great speeds, but everytime they'd grapple or exchange blows they'd do it in normal time.

Im totally on board with team Heroes but please correct me if im wrong.....

If superman uses his amazing strength to punch someone like Zod then flys fast enough to catch up, punches zod again, speeds up some more, catches up again, and soo on.......well wouldn't Superman have to throw his punch at a much faster rate then what he is moving in order to have enough force to send zod flying backwards at a faster speed then what hes already moving?....

Not really. What sends Zod flying back so far and so fast is the strength of the punch more than it's speed.

But that's not really my point anyway. I may have been wrong to say that the kryptonians aren't capable of producing a super fast punch. Now that I think about it, they really should be capable of producing a super fast punch. What I still don't see them doing is putting together a combination of super fast punches without pausing in between. Same way I don't see them putting together a string of super fast movements (especially complex maneuvers) without pausing in between and getting their bearings.

So how is this relevant to this thread? Because someone in here (I think it's Nemebro) tried to claim that Superman and Zod have superfast thought reflexes and processes... which I disagree with. If that was true, they should be able to perceive time in slow motion when they move allowing them to pretty much do any action or series of actions (regardless of how complex) in superspeed without the need to pause in between.

But since they're only shown doing single/simple actions in bursts of speed instead of continuous superspeed, then there's no indication that they actually are capable of super fast thought processing such that they see time in slow motion.

Dose that make sense?

@Mindset

I edited

But both are city busters and we never see that sort of power output from neither Supes nor Thor

The duo have a confirmed kill rate of 400'000+ whereas Supes only has a maybe 50+ and Thor maybe 50+ as well

And due to the way the potters work they can see how to "fix"the future which would likely end with the feeding on Thor's brain and trying to get into Supes

Originally posted by FrothByte
Not really. What sends Zod flying back so far and so fast is the strength of the punch more than it's speed.

But that's not really my point anyway. I may have been wrong to say that the kryptonians aren't capable of producing a super fast punch. Now that I think about it, they really should be capable of producing a super fast punch. What I still don't see them doing is putting together a combination of super fast punches without pausing in between. Same way I don't see them putting together a string of super fast movements (especially complex maneuvers) without pausing in between and getting their bearings.

So how is this relevant to this thread? Because someone in here (I think it's Nemebro) tried to claim that Superman and Zod have superfast thought reflexes and processes... which I disagree with. If that was true, they should be able to perceive time in slow motion when they move allowing them to pretty much do any action or series of actions (regardless of how complex) in superspeed without the need to pause in between.

But since they're only shown doing single/simple actions in bursts of speed instead of continuous superspeed, then there's no indication that they actually are capable of super fast thought processing such that they see time in slow motion.

Dose that make sense?

It does make sense and per forum rules I say your assumption would be right on the money right now. However, I think in later movies Superman will probably show more of his abilities to move and even think at Superspeed.

Timestop is the main thing the heroes team has going for them. That might give them the win.

On the other hand, heat vision from someone with super speed could decimate them both almost instantaneously.

I think this fight comes down to a quickdraw.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm sorry, what's that post supposed to prove? She zips at super speed up to a guy, punches him in normal speed, zips to another with super speed, punches in normal speed, rinse and repeat. If she truly could use superspeed at all instances, why not just zip through them all in a flash. Her having to stop (even very miniscule) every time she hits someone shows that she's incapable of stringing together combinations at consistent super speed.

Don't get me wrong, it was still a very impressive feat, but it still just shows them having great mobile speed.

Originally posted by Arachnid1
Timestop is the main thing the heroes team has going for them. That might give them the win.

On the other hand, heat vision from someone with super speed could decimate them both almost instantaneously.

I think this fight comes down to a quickdraw.

I've never understood the mobile speed vs punching speed argument. If her legs can move that fast, there's no reason her arms cant. The only reason the director had the pauses is because it wouldn't be fun to watch an instantaneous win. Snyder has always been about style more than substance.

The difference lies in how the speedsters perceive time. If the speedster can perceive everyone's else's action in slow motion, then the speedster can pretty much do anything in superspeed, including combat feats and complex maneuvers.

However if the speedster can simply move their physique at superspeed but their perception/reflexes are still normal, then they can do simple actions in bursts of speed (running, flying, throwing maybe 1 or 2 punches) but they won't be able to perform complex maneuvers (full combat, ducking dodging, combinations, etc) because their mind can't keep up with the speed of their bodies. It's not exactly just punching speed, I was wrong to use that term. It boils down to combat speed vs. mobile speed. Think of it as the difference between the speed of a runner and a boxer. Both are fast but in different ways.

Plus, time stop IS instantaneous. Which is still faster than heat vision.