Originally posted by Parmaniac
That's because Spot might pack incredible potential but is written like a jobber most of the time. If Superior Spider-Man wold have added him to his Suprior Six it would be totally different.
Agreed...and tbh alot of his rogues would be heavy hitters if written correctly. Especially the elementals like hydro, sandman and electro. Same can be said of black tarantula or vulture and cardiac.
Originally posted by Sin I AM👆
Agreed...and tbh alot of his rogues would be heavy hitters if written correctly. Especially the elementals like hydro, sandman and electro. Same can be said of black tarantula or vulture and cardiac.
Sandman has recently shown the ability to transfer sandcontrol to other people.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
He didn't kill Punisher. Daken did.
I pointed this out earlier in the thread as a joke because I didn't think anybody would be silly enough to use it as an argument, but I was wrong.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well, he HAD just fought the Void, lol. But my argument wasn't about the Void - it was that EVERYTHING else Norman had, Doom didn't see as a threat. And why should he? It's not like any of the Cabal had ever worried about SHIELD coming after them - it's part and parcel of being a supervillain.
I know and you're still contradicting yoiurself. It depends on whose leading SHIELD. Nick Fury was a threat to alot of supervillains. Norman Osborn is a very smart man.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
True. Except he talked that way, AFTER beating Norman in combat, who needed Sentry to help him:
..........
.............[QUOTE=16768399]Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Norman....couldn't do anything. HAMMER had to evacuate. The Dark Avengers had to flee. His headquarters were destroyed. All by a single Doombot.
Look heres the thing you're taking what feats you like and then using that as a generalisation. The reason why that happened was probably because Norman was taken by suprise that doesn't mean he can't be a threat further down the line. The fact that Norman actually helped save his life has gone completely over your head. If you have the capability of saving somebodies life it's not a stretch to say you could be a threat to it. I've explained to you that the Mighty Avengers raided Latveria with less resources than Norman did and they nearly took it over. I've just given you two examples that contradict your one example. Just because you got one example you like doesn't mean you won the debate.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85And it is interesting that you mention the incident with Morgan Le Fay. Doom says how Norman only got to his position by sheer luck - and Norman agrees:
[/B]
LOL I was reading that issue and I knew you were going to use that as an argument. According to your logic then Batman isn't a threat to anybody because he had the sheer luck to inherit billions. Yes Norman was in the right place at the right time but had to be intelligent to use it to his advantage.
But what's really hilarious is in that in that same issue Norman is flying an injured Doom off the battlefield and coming up with a plan to save his life. It wasn't luck that Norman saved his life and that point has gone completely over your head.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85So no, he's not skilled, or a physical, technological, or even psychological threat to Doom. The only time he went up against Doom, his home was trashed, all his buddies fled, and none of his resources were of any use. [b]The only big stick he had - Void - WAS a threat, but I NEVER said it wasn't.
When? Lol. He acknowledges he only got to where he was thanks to sheer luck. When Doom attacked, nothing stopped him - they all had to flee.
Even Parker Robbins, the weaseliest of the Cabal, only fled because Loki told him to:
Osborne commanded nothing of any consequence, except the Void/Sentry. He's the equivalent of that snotty kid in the playground whose big brother is a Marine MMA champion - no one would touch him, but that says nothing about the kid.
What? LOL I never said you didn't say the Void wasn't threat. Heres the problem because you're just using one example and then using that as evidence Norman couldn't be threat. It's nonsense because:
1. Norman saved Dooms life WITHOUT Sentry's help.
2. Latveria had almost be taken over already by an Avengers team using less resources than Norman.
3. I'm pretty sure that Nick Fury could be a threat to Doom. Norman isn't Nick Fury but still very intelligent
Furthermore he's not the only big stick that Norman has Ares can be very powerful and even Bullseye potentially with enough prep and intel could posssibly be a threat given time.
Also if Doom trashing his place and mouthing off to Norman is proof that Norman wasn't a threat than according to you're logic nothing Norman had was a threat.
I'm sorry but you're argument is complete nonsense. Why would Doom be immune to the whole of HAMMER and potentially an army of supervillains? As far as I can remember my argument is that everything that Norman had minus Sentry could be a threat. In terms of meta-humans Norman didn't just have The Dark Avengers but he had the Thunderbolts black ops team. How much money you wanna bet he could recruit others? He's also a scientist I'm pretty sure he could find some way of enhancing people further. Plus I'm not even arguing Doom couldn't win in the end it's just that it would be a serious problem.
By the way here a look at the team that raided Doom's castle, sure Sentrys there but it 's not like he did all the work. You could replace him with somebody else and an army of HAMMER agents.
All of a sudden Doom's gonna stomp.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆When Norman told Namor to do something he didn't want to, he just told him to go phuck himself:
..........And once again, nothing that Osbournne could do.
Hell, this is how much respect the Cabal give to him, his resources, HAMMER etc:
Parker wouldn't even give him the time of day.
Wanna read the whole thing instead just picking the bits you like? What does Norman say afterwards. 'Cut the Crap Namor. You have no Kingdom. You need this help rebuild your Empire'. By the way DarkSaint you know the difference between what Norman and Namor said. Namor was talking rubbish because he didn't have anything to back it up, what Norman said was true.
Furthermore theres THIS!
Norman tells Namor that he gave him back his kingdom and Namor actually thanks him!!
Which is exactly what I've been saying Namor may not have liked him or respected him but he worked with him because he knew it could benefit him because Norman had power and it worked out for him.
Stop posting scans of members disrespecthing him it doesn't prove anything. My argument isn't that they respected him my point is that they wouldn't have even turned up in the first place if they didn't think he had enough power and influence to threaten them or benefit them. Norman sure gave Emma's people a hard time and it looked like they might have been able to take over San Fransico without Sentry but they didn't want to commit geneocide on national TV. Not a threat gimmie a break.
Originally posted by One_Angry_Scot
I'd be happy to debate this some more with you mate but the formatting to much text for me haha. If you edit your replies to me then I'll reply. Not a problem if not. Much better if you quote a whole text then address each point via a numbered list.
Well reply if you want but to be honest I'm not really feeling this thread. Already debating DS.
One thing I will add though I was reading The Dark Avengers annual and Sentry is asking Marvel Boy why he was trying to leave The Dark Avengers. Marvel Boy tells Sentry that Norman is using him. I think this takes place before that issue and if that's the case I think that's why Sentry said what he did. He started to think what Marvel Boy said and maybe that's why he said what he did. Regardless I think my point still stands.
Originally posted by Deadline
Well reply if you want but to be honest I'm not really feeling this thread. Already debating DS.One thing I will add though I was reading The Dark Avengers annual and Sentry is asking Marvel Boy why he was trying to leave The Dark Avengers. Marvel Boy tells Sentry that Norman is using him. I think this takes place before that issue and if that's the case I think that's why Sentry said what he did. He started to think what Marvel Boy said and maybe that's why he said what he did. Regardless I think my point still stands.
It's run its course really, that and this thread isn't about the Sentry anyway so it's not adding anything here.
Originally posted by Sin I AM
Norman barely held it together. Everyone was pretty much waiting for him to crack while sticking it to the heros. The only smart thing he did iirc was capitalise off the breakdown of CW and idiocy of SI.
So, basically nowhere near Prometheus or guys like the Riddler, Ra's Al Ghul, Bane, Joker, etc...
He might not be Penguin level. lol
Originally posted by Senor Cage
So, basically nowhere near Prometheus or guys like the Riddler, Ra's Al Ghul, Bane, Joker, etc...He might not be Penguin level. lol
It doesn't matter wether he was barely still holding it together it was still impressive when you consider the amount of power he had and things he did. I'm sorry shes actually using the argument that Norman didn't personaly kill Punisher. It's a very, very, very silly argument. So I have a feeling you might not want too take her opinion to seriously. It's trolling right?
Originally posted by Deadline
It doesn't matter wether he was barely still holding it together it was still impressive when you consider the amount of power he had and things he did. I'm sorry shes actually using the argument that Norman didn't personaly kill Punisher. It's a very, very, very silly argument. So I have a feeling you might not want too take her opinion to seriously. It's trolling right?
With all the hype, I don't see Norman on Prometheus's level.
Originally posted by Deadline
It doesn't matter wether he was barely still holding it together it was still impressive when you consider the amount of power he had and things he did. I'm sorry shes actually using the argument that Norman didn't personaly kill Punisher. It's a very, very, very silly argument. So I have a feeling you might not want too take her opinion to seriously. It's trolling right?
Trolling how? You're the one that keeps pushing this Norman is a threat angle. It's a failed argument. He didn't do anything noteworthy.
There are plenty of other SM villians you can pull from
Originally posted by DeadlineBy the way here a look at the team that raided Doom's castle, sure Sentrys there but it 's not like he did all the work. You could replace him with somebody else and an army of HAMMER agents.
All of a sudden Doom's gonna stomp.
I'm not sure what the Mighty Avengers (Instead of the Dark Avengers) have to do with this, but this, is dumb regardless.
Sentry literally did all the heavy lifting, and no, no amount of fodder agents could have replaced him to be able to be any threat to Doom. Wtf? Doom was owning the Mighty Avengers, and they had significantly more muscle than the Dark Avengers Osborn was rolling with. He did even better against the Dark Avengers than he did against the Mighty Avengers.
I repeat, this is hella dumb. Ares is the only other person beside Sentry with a shot of beating Doom.
Here are the issues:
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-9?id=62308
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-10?id=62268
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-11?id=62269
The Sentry under Bendis was a crazy nutcase with the power of a God. Iron Man with his Extremis armor (FAR superior to Osborn's) was outmatched by Doom.
Also, the last issue, where everyone is hanging (Check Janet's dialogue). 😂 Janet is legit the biggest hoe in comicdom.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not sure what the Mighty Avengers (Instead of the Dark Avengers) have to do with this, but this, is dumb regardless.Sentry literally did all the heavy lifting, and no, no amount of fodder agents could have replaced him to be able to be any threat to Doom. Wtf? Doom was owning the Mighty Avengers, and they had significantly more muscle than the Dark Avengers Osborn was rolling with. He did even better against the Dark Avengers than he did against the Mighty Avengers.
I repeat, this is hella dumb. Ares is the only other person beside Sentry with a shot of beating Doom.
Here are the issues:
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-9?id=62308
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-10?id=62268
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-11?id=62269The Sentry under Bendis was a crazy nutcase with the power of a God. Iron Man with his Extremis armor (FAR superior to Osborn's) was outmatched by Doom.
Also, the last issue, where everyone is hanging (Check Janet's dialogue). 😂 Janet is legit the biggest hoe in comicdom.
How was Skrull SW able to break his hold
Originally posted by Deadline
I know and you're still contradicting yoiurself. It depends on whose leading SHIELD. Nick Fury was a threat to alot of supervillains. Norman Osborn is a very smart man.
My point is, Norman being in charge of HAMMER and the resources of the USA, with the superheroes united against them, isn't exactly anything the supervillains are not used to. You're acting like they're collectively pooping their pants because oh noes, there's a guy with all these resources arrayed against them!
Look heres the thing you're taking what feats you like and then using that as a generalisation. The reason why that happened was probably because Norman was taken by suprise that doesn't mean he can't be a threat further down the line.
The fact that Norman actually helped save his life has gone completely over your head. If you have the capability of saving somebodies life it's not a stretch to say you could be a threat to it. I've explained to you that the Mighty Avengers raided Latveria with less resources than Norman did and they nearly took it over. I've just given you two examples that contradict your one example. Just because you got one example you like doesn't mean you won the debate.
LOL I was reading that issue and I knew you were going to use that as an argument. According to your logic then Batman isn't a threat to anybody because he had the sheer luck to inherit billions. Yes Norman was in the right place at the right time but had to be intelligent to use it to his advantage.
But what's really hilarious is in that in that same issue[b] Norman is flying an injured Doom off the battlefield and coming up with a plan to save his life. It wasn't luck that Norman saved his life and that point has gone completely over your head.
What? LOL I never said you didn't say the Void wasn't threat. Heres the problem because you're just using one example and then using that as evidence Norman couldn't be threat. It's nonsense because:1. Norman saved Dooms life WITHOUT Sentry's help.
2. Latveria had almost be taken over already by an Avengers team using less resources than Norman.
3. I'm pretty sure that Nick Fury could be a threat to Doom. Norman isn't Nick Fury but still very intelligent
Furthermore he's not the only big stick that Norman has Ares can be very powerful and even Bullseye potentially with enough prep and intel could posssibly be a threat given time.
[b]
Also if Doom trashing his place and mouthing off to Norman is proof that Norman wasn't a threat than according to you're logic nothing Norman had was a threat.
I'm sorry but you're argument is complete nonsense. Why would Doom be immune to the whole of HAMMER and potentially an army of supervillains? As far as I can remember my argument is that everything that Norman had minus Sentry could be a threat. In terms of meta-humans Norman didn't just have The Dark Avengers but he had the Thunderbolts black ops team. How much money you wanna bet he could recruit others? He's also a scientist I'm pretty sure he could find some way of enhancing people further. Plus I'm not even arguing Doom couldn't win in the end it's just that it would be a serious problem.
By the way here a look at the team that raided Doom's castle, sure Sentrys there but it 's not like he did all the work. You could replace him with somebody else and an army of HAMMER agents.All of a sudden Doom's gonna stomp.
Wanna read the whole thing instead just picking the bits you like? What does Norman say afterwards. 'Cut the Crap Namor. You have no Kingdom. You need this help rebuild your Empire'. By the way DarkSaint you know the difference between what Norman and Namor said. Namor was talking rubbish because he didn't have anything to back it up, what Norman said was true.
Furthermore theres THIS!Norman tells Namor that he gave him back his kingdom [b]and Namor actually thanks him!!
Which is exactly what I've been saying Namor may not have liked him or respected him but he worked with him because he knew it could benefit him because Norman had power and it worked out for him.
Stop posting scans of members disrespecthing him it doesn't prove anything. My argument isn't that they respected him my point is that they wouldn't have even turned up in the first place if they didn't think he had enough power and influence to threaten them or benefit them. Norman sure gave Emma's people a hard time and it looked like they might have been able to take over San Fransico without Sentry but they didn't want to commit geneocide on national TV. Not a threat gimmie a break.
The entire time, Cyke was playing defence and was merely observing:
As soon as he switched to offence, two of Norman's Cabal deserted him (well, assuming they were even with Norman in the first place):
Again, with an analogy. You're the kid with the MMA Marine big brother. You tell us to go beat some kid up - thing is, I happen to hate that kid as well. Do I do it because you told me to? Because I think you're a threat to me? Because you can potentially cause me trouble? No. I do it because it just so happens our interests align. You're no threat, I just hate that kid.
You then tell me to beat my own brother up. I refuse. Stilt and Golgo go to his house, (because they happen to be driving there anyway), then elope together. OAS refuses to take your calls. Sin says sure, because she wants to put you in prison and has been playing you from the start. I refuse, and you send your big bro after me. I torch your house, nearly kill you (until your big bro turns up), and tell you...guess what, you're not going to come after me. Despite me torching your house, you'll do nothing.
And you do nothing. It's not just trash talk, you literally do nothing.
But sure. Make the thread. The full Cabal (let's add Taskmaster in because why not) against the Dark Avengers (no Sentry/Void) and the full resources of HAMMER. Namor has no Atlantean army or resources, but Doom has full access to all of his gear, and Emma can call on the mutants to help her.
I think I'm done with this thread but I'll see.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I'm not sure what the Mighty Avengers (Instead of the Dark Avengers) have to do with this, but this, is dumb regardless.Sentry literally did all the heavy lifting, and no, no amount of fodder agents could have replaced him to be able to be any threat to Doom. Wtf? Doom was owning the Mighty Avengers, and they had significantly more muscle than the Dark Avengers Osborn was rolling with. He did even better against the Dark Avengers than he did against the Mighty Avengers.
I repeat, this is hella dumb. Ares is the only other person beside Sentry with a shot of beating Doom.
Here are the issues:
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-9?id=62308
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-10?id=62268
https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/The-Mighty-Avengers/Issue-11?id=62269The Sentry under Bendis was a crazy nutcase with the power of a God. Iron Man with his Extremis armor (FAR superior to Osborn's) was outmatched by Doom.
Also, the last issue, where everyone is hanging (Check Janet's dialogue). 😂 Janet is legit the biggest hoe in comicdom.
You should comprehend what I said before telling me my arguments are dumb so please read it again.
Originally posted by Deadline
By the way here a look at the team that raided Doom's castle, sure Sentrys there but it 's not like he did all the work. You could replace him with somebody else and an army of HAMMER agents.
Then read what I posted directly above this post.
Originally posted by DeadlineWhy would Doom be immune to the whole of HAMMER and potentially an army of supervillains? As far as I can remember my argument is that everything that Norman had minus Sentry could be a threat. In terms of meta-humans Norman didn't just have The Dark Avengers but he had the Thunderbolts black ops team. How much money you wanna bet he could recruit others? He's also a scientist I'm pretty sure he could find some way of enhancing people further. Plus I'm not even arguing Doom couldn't win in the end it's just that it would be a serious problem.
Here's what I remember, Sentry being the most effective and powerful member of the team but the rest of the team doing a lot without him. I don't remember Doom owning the team but holding his own and resorting to summouning an army of mindless ones as a last resort (yes I read those issues). In fact even before the fighting started it seemed that Doom was scared. Now I think we need some proof but I am concerned that you just might pick the examples you like. I could be wrong.
Unfortunately the only proof I have is that scan which clearly shows the team holding their own without Sentry. I don't own the issue but I read it theres this synopsis on comicvine and like I said Sentry was the most effective member but nowhere does it suggest that Sentry was doing all the work.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/the-mighty-avengers-9-the-venom-bomb-pt-3/4000-123373/
and theres this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_-FCNtIQeg
Like I said the whole team was kicking butt
