He wouldn't be able to control so many people at once, but it is still clearly implying that he can control multiple people.
Wasn't RM Naruto faster than A? Or was that BM Naruto? If it was RM Naruto, then A's not faster than Itachi, lol. And only one who can do anything against Susano'o is Onoki. Other ones would be utterly useless.
Itachi is the same person who casually one-paneled Orochimaru and Deidara without even activating Mangekyo Sharingan. Orochimaru and Deidara would be stronger than any current Kage other than A and Onoki.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
When did that happen? Because I remember Kakashi being in Tsukuyomi and Sasuke being under it at two different times.Itachi would be on his last leg if he spammed Amateratsu like that. On top of that Gaara can outright block it. Susanoo, unless its the full form Tsunade or A can easily hammer at it until it breaks or Tsunade could juice up Onoki to use that super Particle Style tech.
Itachi can't use Amateratsu like that unless shown otherwise. Remember the big deal that was made about Sasuke being able to control Amateratsu better than Itachi at the Kage Summit?
When Itachi did this, Kakashi was still in Tsukiyomi, as they hadn't brought Tsunade back to the village yet. I rest my case.
See the lower rings of the building? That are covered in Amaterasu? This proves Itachi can coat his surroundings in Amaterasu which could be used as a defense.
Here is Danzo clearly refuting what was stated earlier, as he's actually seen Itachi in action. Stating that Itachi's Tsukiyomi was superior to Sasuke's by far implies that his Mangekyo altogether was better, including his Amaterasu and Susano'o. Sasuke couldn't even use Susano'o full with armor until he got EMS. They said ONE time that it was amazing that Sasuke could alter Amaterasu's path, something Itachi couldn't do, but he clearly did so when fighting Sasuke, proving them wrong before they even said that.
Itachi used Amaterasu to cover the field, spammed it to hit Sasuke, overcome his fireball, and shoot at him during the entire fight. Along with Tsukiyomi, a couple fireballs, Susano'o fully cloaked and blocking Kirirn ALL while being on his deathbed and sick, as stated by Zetsu, proves he has MORE than enough chakra to dish out a couple Tsukiyomi's, some Amaterasu coverage, Yata mirro blockage and some Totsuka blade stabs, in Edo Tensei with a smile on his face like it's nothing.
Originally posted by Q99
One, he never does that. Two, they can fly. Three, Gaara can block amaterasu quite easily, and the others are the ones involved in the offense. Four, if Itachi is doing that, he's not doing much which could stop them.So, why's that supposed to be a problem again?
A's faster than him, and the methods I mentioned are ranged attacks.
Which is a shield that blocks in one direction.
The last time the Kage did a move like this, they had both the uber-dust, and a lightning-enhanced water that got under Madara's susano'o.
Except for, y'know, the swords, and genjutsu and such.
And nothing you mentioned Itachi doing would stop what they actually did.
Sure, he still had his Final Susano'o in reserve, but he was still using more chakra than Itachi has period and Itachi doesn't have that or an equivalent to that, so so what?
One, no one in the Kage team can fly except Ohnoki. Gaara can fly, but it's not even worth mentioning considering he's just floating on a hunk of sand. Two, Gaara can only block Amaterasu, not a Totsuka blade stab, or a single Yasaka Magatama. Three, the others STILL couldn't land a hit, as he has Yata mirror blocking one side with impenetrable defense, Amaterasu covering every other side, and three free arms to cover him from all around, as well as Genjutsu that FAR surpasses Kage level, and can give him the seconds he needs to tag them, which would kill them.
The Amaterasu would instantly evaporate the water, making that a moot point, Yata mirror would block the dust style, and Totsuka blade would make shish-kebobs out of anyone that gave him a single second to kill them instantly.
A is NOT faster than Itachi. A got speed-blitzed by KCM Naruto, who in turn was speed-blitzed by Nagato who got blitzed by Itachi. Itachi blitzes the shit out of A with a smile on his face while he's dousing him in Amaterasu from all directions, lol.
Madara has a lot more chakra than Itachi, obviously, but he also has less deadly abilities. He doesn't have Amaterasu, the Totsuka blade, Tsukiyomi, or really any of the incredible attacks Itachi has that he could use his strategic thinking to land with ease against the Kage's. This fight would literally be child's play to Itachi. He would blitz everyone while using Genjutsu to mind **** them as he vaporized them easily. This isn't a fight between the most powerful here, it's a fight between the deadliest. Itachi isn't as strong as say Madara or Hashirama, but if you were Hashirama, would you rather be faced with a meteor falling on you, or a stab with the Totsuka blade that would seal you in a drunken stupor for all eternity? Prolly the meteor. 👆
The Kage's have NO defense against someone faster, deadlier, smarter, and with better hair than them. Especially when they couldn't even get past his base Genjutsu that he can use from continents away on multiple people.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
^ That scan states that Itachi wouldn't be able to control so many people at once.Itachi would get one Kage with it at best before the others tag him. Plus A's faster than Itachi so that's a plus.
The scan states he wouldn't be able to control the entire alliance at once, five people though? That's child's play.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
He wouldn't be able to control so many people at once, but it is still clearly implying that he can control multiple people.Wasn't RM Naruto faster than A? Or was that BM Naruto? If it was RM Naruto, then A's not faster than Itachi, lol. And only one who can do anything against Susano'o is Onoki. Other ones would be utterly useless.
Itachi is the same person who casually one-paneled Orochimaru and Deidara without even activating Mangekyo Sharingan. Orochimaru and Deidara would be stronger than any current Kage other than A and Onoki.
We still have yet to see Itachi use Tsukuyomi on more than one person at a time. Then there's the issue that it requires direct eye contact which most of the Kages here can avoid.
That can safely be chalked up to CIS considering even Nagato was able to tag Naruto in KCM.
With genjutsu that they were already under plus he was fighting both of them one on one. Unless is specified to be Tsukuyomi, the Kages shouldn't have a problem breaking each other out of regular sharinigan genjustsu.
Originally posted by SSJGGogetaWhen Itachi did this, Kakashi was still in Tsukiyomi, as they hadn't brought Tsunade back to the village yet. I rest my case.
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Originally posted by SSJGGogetaSee the lower rings of the building? That are covered in Amaterasu? This proves Itachi can coat his surroundings in Amaterasu which could be used as a defense.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
Here is Danzo clearly refuting what was stated earlier, as he's actually seen Itachi in action. Stating that Itachi's Tsukiyomi was superior to Sasuke's by far implies that his Mangekyo altogether was better, including his Amaterasu and Susano'o. Sasuke couldn't even use Susano'o full with armor until he got EMS. They said ONE time that it was amazing that Sasuke could alter Amaterasu's path, something Itachi couldn't do, but he clearly did so when fighting Sasuke, proving them wrong before they even said that.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
No he wasn't. He was reeling from the effect but he was already out of it by the time Itachi cast it on Sasuke. http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-18/naruto/chapter-142.htmlStill doesn't counter the fact that A is faster than Amateratsu, Gaara can block/fly all the kages away from it, Itachi can't do much else if he's casting it, and if this is mortal Itachi, then he's going to be on his last legs from using that much chakra.
Again what does that have to do with Itachi actually landing an attack on any of the Kages? Dude still doesn't have an answer to the uber Kage combo attack or the huge Particle Style cube that both Onoki can make with Tsunade's help. Also Sasuke's Enton have had multiple showing of being superior to what Itachi could do with it. Uncluding but not limited to the Amateratsu spikes, shuriken, Susanoo sword and even coating his katana with the stuff.
See? Tsunade had just finished healing Sasuke, and she had to go heal Kakashi afterwords. Unless you're implying that Sasuke with two double tomoe sharingan has more resistance to Tsukiyomi than Kakashi with a partially developed Mangekyou sharingan, and that he would need healed even after two weeks of being out of Tsukyomi, then yes, Kakashi was still under Tsukiyomi when Itachi used it on Sasuke, and they were both under it at the same time until Tsunade healed them.
A might be faster than Amaterasu, but what good is that when Itachi who is faster than him, is blitzing him and shooting it at him from all directions so he can't dodge? That's like saying Naruto couldn't hit Madara with Rasenshuriken. Madara is faster than Rasenshuriken, but Naruto is much faster than Madara, so it doesn't matter because he can easily get blitzed so Naruto can find an opening to hit him. Just like with Itachi and A.
Again, Itachi stated the Yata mirror could block any attack, and the particle style, even enhanced, still has about as much push-force as a regular fireball, and it can't de-materialize the Yata mirror which blocks any attack and is made of fire itself, so it would be less effective against Itachi than a rasengan.
Sasuke has had much more air-time than Itachi. That's like saying Bills has better ki attacks than Whiss because all Whiss has ever done is knock him out with a neck chop for three years. Sasuke has demonstrated more, but due to statements from Danzo and Orochimaru, who have actually fought Itachi, we can easily say that Itachi has mangekyou sharingan abilities that even surpass Sasuke's EMS. Itachi in his prime one-panneled Orochimaru's full power prime with a simple genjutsu. The same Orochimaru defeated the third Hokage, who was stronger than Tsunade(not physically, but he would dominate her in a fight). Orochimaru fought four tailed Naruto and did severe damage when he was on his deathbed.
Itachi would shit on the Gokage.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
We still have yet to see Itachi use Tsukuyomi on more than one person at a time. Then there's the issue that it requires direct eye contact which most of the Kages here can avoid.That can safely be chalked up to CIS considering even Nagato was able to tag Naruto in KCM.
With genjutsu that they were already under plus he was fighting both of them one on one. Unless is specified to be Tsukuyomi, the Kages shouldn't have a problem breaking each other out of regular sharinigan genjustsu.
Again, Kakashi was still under Tsukiyomi when Itachi used it on Sasuke, in other words, he used it on two people at once. 👆
Nagato was faster and stronger than the Pain's Naruto fought, as well as being able to use all of the path abilities at once. Edo Tensei Nagato would probably beat current Naruto in all honesty. Itachi raped that Nagato with one attack, the Nagato who was faster and stronger than the tag-team of Killer Bee and Naruto. 👆
The Kage's wouldn't have time to save each other as 1. Itachi can use that Genjutsu on multiple people at once from continents away, 2. Even if he only used it on one or two people right off the bat, they still can't be broken out of it before they get vaporized by Amaterasu or sealed with Totsuka blade, and 3. Itachi would use it on all of them at once before vaporizing them all with Amaterasu right off the bat with no trouble at all.
They have no counters against him. Honestly, he's probably the deadliest character in all of Naruto. The only one I could see legitimately beating him would be Hashirama and Madara, and possibly Obito and definitely Jyuubito. He's not the strongest or fastest, but he has hax abilities that MORE than make up for any lacks he might have.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka We still have yet to see Itachi use Tsukuyomi on more than one person at a time.
Uh, did you read my post? Kakashi told Kurenai and Asuma to close their eyes when Itachi activated Tsukuyomi.
Just because he hasn't done it, doesn't mean that he can't. Nothing suggest what you're claiming.
Then there's the issue that it requires direct eye contact which most of the Kages here can avoid.
So they're going to look at his feet while he lits them on Amaterasu or puts Totsuka through their hearts? And how does this help them against basic genjutsu?
That can safely be chalked up to CIS considering even Nagato was able to tag Naruto in KCM.
Except Nagato's a top tier character. He just can't move his legs, that doesn't mean his upper body movements or ability to use his jutsu are going to be slow.
With genjutsu that they were already under plus he was fighting both of them one on one. Unless is specified to be Tsukuyomi, the Kages shouldn't have a problem breaking each other out of regular sharinigan genjustsu.
How. when all five of them are under his genjutsu? We're talking about the best genjutsu user in the show, next to perhaps Shisui.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
Uh, did you read my post? Kakashi told Kurenai and Asuma to close their eyes when Itachi activated Tsukuyomi.Just because he hasn't done it, doesn't mean that he can't. Nothing suggest what you're claiming.
By that logic why didn't he try casting it on both Bee and Naruto at the same time? Assuming its as unbreakable as its been hyped up to be and Bee's already negated a weaker version of it they would be completely vulnerable to it.
But that's just it, Itachi hasn't been shown using Tsukuyomi like that so we can't just assume he can till we have some solid feats.
Originally posted by TheTyrantSo they're going to look at his feet while he lits them on Amaterasu or puts Totsuka through their hearts? And how does this help them against basic genjutsu?
Originally posted by TheTyrantExcept Nagato's a top tier character. He just can't move his legs, that doesn't mean his upper body movements or ability to use his jutsu are going to be slow.
Nagato hasn't shown speedster qualities though neither with his full body or paths. And considering how little Naruto was using the speed his KCM gave him I have reason to doubt that Nagato actually caught him in a blitz.
Originally posted by TheTyrant
How. when all five of them are under his genjutsu? We're talking about the best genjutsu user in the show, next to perhaps Shisui.
Edit: Hold up...I just now realized that they're up against Edo Itachi. Which means he could possibly use his MS techs as much as he wanted on top of Izanami(though it would hinder more than help IMO). I still think the Kages win but it'll be much tougher.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Um...yeah I'm not going to even bother reading all of that.As I've said before Itachi could beta any of the Kage's here one on one but looses if he's fighting them together. I rest my case.
What case? All you've said is that Itachi loses. You've posted nothing to counter what I've said, shown and proven other than your biased opinions. You have no case, and Itachi solos. I rest my case.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
....You have misunderstood Tsukuyomi to an astounding degree.
How's that? There's not much to misunderstand. He traps you in a world of genjutsu where he can alter time itself, matter and even physical mass itself. He basically becomes god. He can use it on at least two people at once, and probably even more.
Why is it that you feel the need to post at all when you can't even prove a single point? You're obviously the one with a misunderstanding here, not me. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What case? All you've said is that Itachi loses. You've posted nothing to counter what I've said, shown and proven other than your biased opinions. You have no case, and Itachi solos. I rest my case.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
How's that? There's not much to misunderstand. He traps you in a world of genjutsu where he can alter time itself, matter and even physical mass itself. He basically becomes god. He can use it on at least two people at once, and probably even more.Why is it that you feel the need to post at all when you can't even prove a single point? You're obviously the one with a misunderstanding here, not me. 👆
So once again you still haven't understood how Tsukuyomi is applied to combat.
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
How's that? There's not much to misunderstand. He traps you in a world of genjutsu where he can alter time itself, matter and even physical mass itself. He basically becomes god. He can use it on at least two people at once, and probably even more.Why is it that you feel the need to post at all when you can't even prove a single point? You're obviously the one with a misunderstanding here, not me. 👆
You seem to be under the impression that Kakashi and Sasuke, while in their coma, were still under the genjutsu. So I will show you why you're wrong.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-17/naruto/chapter-142.html
That is what the world looks like when Kakashi(and Sasuke) are under the effects of Tsukuomi. It is all black and stuff. It is clearly an illusion.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-18/naruto/chapter-142.html
The very next page has Kakashi fully concsious of the world around him. He can hear Asuma, can see Kisame, and basically the whole setting as it was before Itachi cast Tsukuyomi. At this point the genjutsu is over. He is no longer under it.
Kakashi collapsed because the pain he felt was 3 days worth of torture. He was clearly struggling to stay conscience before Guy arrived. The reason Tsukuyomi is so powerful is because it all takes place in a single moment of time. You can't break them out of it because by the time you go to do so it is already too late. Kakashi says as much.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-6/naruto/chapter-257.html
Chiyo explains how to fight a normal Sharingan and genjutsu.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-6/naruto/chapter-257.html
Kakashi says flat out that you can't cancel Tsukuyomi. It simply works too fast.
Tsunade didn't break them out of the Tsukuyomi. They'd been out of it a second after it was cast because that is how the technique works. Tsunade merely told the brain to wake up because it didn't actually have any injuries to worry about.
So yeah you have misunderstood Tsukuomi to an astounding degree.
Originally posted by AuraAngel
You seem to be under the impression that Kakashi and Sasuke, while in their coma, were still under the genjutsu. So I will show you why you're wrong.http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-17/naruto/chapter-142.html
That is what the world looks like when Kakashi(and Sasuke) are under the effects of Tsukuomi. It is all black and stuff. It is clearly an illusion.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-147-18/naruto/chapter-142.html
The very next page has Kakashi fully concsious of the world around him. He can hear Asuma, can see Kisame, and basically the whole setting as it was before Itachi cast Tsukuyomi. At this point the genjutsu is over. He is no longer under it.
Kakashi collapsed because the pain he felt was 3 days worth of torture. He was clearly struggling to stay conscience before Guy arrived. The reason Tsukuyomi is so powerful is because it all takes place in a single moment of time. You can't break them out of it because by the time you go to do so it is already too late. Kakashi says as much.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-6/naruto/chapter-257.html
Chiyo explains how to fight a normal Sharingan and genjutsu.
http://www.mangapanda.com/93-262-6/naruto/chapter-257.html
Kakashi says flat out that you can't cancel Tsukuyomi. It simply works too fast.
Tsunade didn't break them out of the Tsukuyomi. They'd been out of it a second after it was cast because that is how the technique works. Tsunade merely told the brain to wake up because it didn't actually have any injuries to worry about.
So yeah you have misunderstood Tsukuomi to an astounding degree.
What the **** difference does it make? You clearly have no brain power to understand anything I've said here, so let me spell it out for you.
If they are both under the effects of Tsukiyomi, then it is being used on both of them at once. I never said Itachi could use Tsukiyomi on all the Kage literally just by using it once. He could use it on them all in an instant though by using it on them individually, meaning they would all be under it at the same time. I know Tsukiyomi doesn't last indefinitely until Tsunade heals you, but the effects of it pretty much do. If you get sealed by the Totsuka blade, it's not still stabbing you while you're sealed, but you're still under its effects. It's the same principal. If any of them were tagged by Tsukiyomi, they would be done for. Tsunade wouldn't be able to heal them without giving Itachi an opportunity to vaporize them both with Amaterasu.
If two people or more can be effected by it at once, you guessed it, he can use it on two people or more at once. 👆
I even stated before you made this comment that Itachi alters time itself with Tsukiyomi. I'm well aware of that. However, its effects last on the person until they get healed, which means it's a basic insta-kill for whoever gets hit with it and whoever tries to heal them in this scenario.
So yeah, you are obviously unable to comprehend the English language to the point where you can gather information from simple context clues. I would have spelled it out simply for you earlier if you had just explained that you were in third grade. My mistake.
Originally posted by wakkawakkawakka
Itachi solos based on what? A tech that's almost entirely useless when used against a group. Yeah except for the fact that Tsukuyomi requires eye contact to work something that you seem keen on neglecting. Also the scan I showed and you showed both have Kakashi out of Tsukuyomi.So once again you still haven't understood how Tsukuyomi is applied to combat.
Are you retarded?
Tsukiyomi is most useful when used against a small group. The reason being, as Kakashi explained in the scan that AuraAngel guy posted, is that you can't break someone out of it and you need to heal them for them to continue being useful, giving Itachi an opening to attack them both.
I have stated several times that Tsukiyomi requires eye contact. You're neglecting my previous posts. What I'm saying is that none of them are skilled enough to be able to instantly adapt to fighting by looking at just his legs. Only Gai was able to do that, and only because he had adapted to doing so just in order to avoid Genjutsu.
Kakashi was under the effects of Tsukiyomi until Tsunade healed him. As AuraAngel pointed out(and me earlier, except I didn't simplify it for first graders like you to understand), the strength of Tsukiyomi lies in the fact that you can't break someone out of it because it only lasts for an instant. Then, the effects stay with the person until they are healed. He could easily use it to maim one person, then kill that person and Tsunade when she tries to heal them.
However, I haven't been talking about Tsukiyomi this entire argument. I know it's impractical for him to use in this fight. It simply uses too much chakra, and would be too much of a risk to use that much chakra just to maim one person when he has five to fight.
He would simply use base Genjutsu to distract them all at once, which would only be for a few seconds, but would definitely be enough time for him to land Amaterasu on them all. It's that simple. A single Genjutsu as a distraction, then an Amaterasu shotgun to finish them off. The only ones who could arguably survive are Gaara, because his sand automatically protects him(or at least it used to, I don't remember if it does anymore or not), and Tsunade, because she would recover from the pain of Amaterasu instantly and use mitotic regeneration to regenerate as she was being burned. In either case though, Itachi still wins by stabbing through Gaara's sand with the Totsuka blade, and/or by letting Tsunade burn her chakra away as Amaterasu burns her flesh away constantly until she's drained and turns to ashes.
Either way, Itachi wins pretty easily with just three or four attacks. Don't dodge the subject by saying I don't know what I'm talking about, when you're still not even debating about what I claimed Itachi would do. 👆
Originally posted by SSJGGogeta
What the **** difference does it make? You clearly have no brain power to understand anything I've said here, so let me spell it out for you.If they are both under the effects of Tsukiyomi, then it is being used on both of them at once. I never said Itachi could use Tsukiyomi on all the Kage literally just by using it once. He could use it on them all in an instant though by using it on them individually, meaning they would all be under it at the same time. I know Tsukiyomi doesn't last indefinitely until Tsunade heals you, but the effects of it pretty much do. If you get sealed by the Totsuka blade, it's not still stabbing you while you're sealed, but you're still under its effects. It's the same principal. If any of them were tagged by Tsukiyomi, they would be done for. Tsunade wouldn't be able to heal them without giving Itachi an opportunity to vaporize them both with Amaterasu.
If two people or more can be effected by it at once, you guessed it, he can use it on two people or more at once. 👆
I even stated before you made this comment that Itachi alters time itself with Tsukiyomi. I'm well aware of that. However, its effects last on the person until they get healed, which means it's a basic insta-kill for whoever gets hit with it and whoever tries to heal them in this scenario.
So yeah, you are obviously unable to comprehend the English language to the point where you can gather information from simple context clues. I would have spelled it out simply for you earlier if you had just explained that you were in third grade. My mistake.
Point out anywhere in my posts where I said Tsukuyomi wouldn't affect more than one person at a time? That was not the purpose of any of my posts.
It is not. He used it twice on two different people. Under the effects of Tsukuyomi means trapped in Itachi's genjutsu world. Sasuke and Kakashi were only there for a second a piece. Both were left in comas after wards but Tsukuyomi was well and truly over. You can in no way say that this is an example of Itachi placing two people into Tsukuyomi simultaneously.
Now do I think he could use it on multiple people at once? Maybe. We've never seen it hit multiple targets but Kakashi telling Kurenai and Asuma to close their eyes implies he can. Of course the implication that all 5 Kage will look into Itachi's eyes directly is foolish. It's Itachi. Why would they make eye contact with him when they all know what he can do?
Basically what you're arguing that a burn victim is still on fire because they have burns even after the fire was put out. Which is a pointless argument to be making since the much easier argument(Kakashi's statement to his pals to shut their eyes) supports your claim far more than Itachi somehow keeping Kakashi and Sasuke in a genjutsu state for weeks when he'd be miles away from either. The genjutsu was cast, and ended, on two different occasions.
Unless you truly think that Wakka believes Itachi can't cast Tsukuyomi twice. Which is not present in his/her posts at all.
As it stands I won't be giving an argument for either side here because it is my thread and I enjoy watching the debate in these cases rather than participating. But your misunderstanding of Tsukuyomi was too egregious for me to pass up commenting.