Revan/Bane v. Mace/Yoda

Originally posted by Nephthys
Banes strongest version is ROT. This is because of his orbalisks, but such a thing is irrelevant because they are standard gear for him in that version.

Regardless, we're just needlessly derailing this thread.

I'd personally pip Bane over Yoda in a fight.

If it comes down to Mace vs Revan, I think Mace has an obvious advantage with a lightsaber and Revan has an obvious advantage with the Force.

The only debatable matchup is Bane against Mace, which could go either way. Yoda would decimate Revan.

True.

I know.

Mace and Yoda excellent

Team 2 has a pretty damn obvious advantage. Both combatants are masters of all 7 styles of lightsaber combat, and both have been confirmed as amongst the best duelists ever produced by the Order, Yoda being called possibly *the* best duelist ever produced by the Order, and both have proven their skill against the greatest of the Sith. They are also both pretty monstrous with Telekinesis.

Mace doesn't compare to Revan or Bane in TK imo. And while they may be better trained and more skilled, Team 1 possess significant advantages as well. Revans Force In Balance technique put Vitiate on his ass and Banes orbalisk make him a significant challenge to either. Bane already beat a duelist whose skills rival both of team 2 after all.

Mace's TK showings are above Revan's.

Revan pelting the Imperial Strike Team with meteors says different.

Moving an 13 meter long AT-TE >

Nope. 😉

Indeed?

Revan chucked those meteors with his offhand while fighting the four, so yeah. It was not a strained effort.

Mace also has other showings, such as obliterating droids with a Force push, crushing droids with doors, lifting multiple trees, etc. His feats seem at least marginally better to me.

I'm not familiar with the lifting multiple trees one. However, in terms of Force mastery, Revan has shown mastery of tutaminis, Force lightning, etc. In fact, Revan's showing over Nyriss is largely superior to anything Yoda or Mace have done to a Lightning user.

To be sure, Revan's mastery supersedes Mace's, but Mace's potency with TK, in my opinion, is demonstrably superior. If your conclusion is that Revan and Mace would be even as Force practitioners, then I could accept that, but I disagree that Mace is inferior.

If Revan's mastery supersecedes Mace's, I don't see how you could except them as even. Being particularly good or having more demonstrations of TK doesn't 'equate' all the other areas in which he is deficient.

There's a difference between mastery and power. Revan is more masterful in the way that he is more versatile, but Mace is more powerful in that his showings of raw power exceeds Revan's. Overall, I see them as even.

Okay, let's look at this another way:

Yoda or Dooku or even Sidious have more mastery than Skywalker (who has more raw power). Mace noted that Kar Vastor had more power than himself (bordering on Yoda's level).

In each of these cases, Force mastery has the edge if not the stomp in victory, assuming it is coupled with at least near-comparable power. Yoda and Sidious have enough mastery and sufficient power to defeat Skywalker. Dooku's Force is superior, although Skywalker's dueling bridges the gap. Kar Vastor was undone by Mace despite Mace having quite the handicap.

Now, Mace is a Jedi Master, and has been since before TPM. (His padawan, Depa, was a master before Anakin was even accepted into the Order). He is not a weakling, and Revan would not 'stomp him into nothing without any effort'. But I would not favor him over Revan for several reasons:

1. Revan isn't a pure Sith, and as such, doesn't have the same inherent weaknesses as say, Sidious.

2. Shatterpoints aren't reliable enough to constitute victory. In fact, when faced with peers or superiors who weren't Dark Side, it did not net him victory (Jedi Master Dooku, Yoda).

3. Revan's more esoteric range of powers and such is a plus. PT era Jedi seldom use anything more than precog, speed, and TK, and the saber is their primary means of dispatching foes.

4. Revan's dueling record is very solid. Defeated Yusanis, Malak twice (once while Malak was amped by the Star Forge and the collective energy of several captured Jedi Knights). Mandalore. Bandon (who had killed many Jedi according to his official bio). Nyriss. In an age when Sith numbered in the thousands and warred actively with Jedi, he was head and shoulders above them all.

5. It took the collective group of four champions of the Empire to defeat him in an epic fight: the Sith Warrior (who has a ton of dueling feats well above their station and is a master of the blade), the Sith Inquisitor (a Force prodigy with amped power), the Bounty Hunter (muggle, but a tough one despite it. Ask Neph, he has a boner for her), and the Agent. Again, during the fight, Revan chucks meteors to augment the fierce defense he's already giving the group.

It's harder to find people who have defeated Revan. Vitiate is one (A god-like being who has practiced the Dark Side for a thousand plus years and has drained countless individuals for Force power). Malak one-upped him before he had his memories reawoken, when part of his power and training was unavailable.

Let's see...

That's it.