Originally posted by abhilegend
That's what not holding back means under Pak. Its a lulzworthy feat even for me. Superman went from getting his face turned into paste to straight up tearing doomsday in half.And then Pak goes and gives Doomsday feats like punching and breaking ****ing Phantom Zone.
😐
No need to put your own twist on it.
Originally posted by Galan007
First off: where is that source from? Certainly a published comic, I hope..?Secondly: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? That sounds like a very subjective statement to me.
Suffice to say: I think you're digging laughably deep if you think a single throwaway line that was intended to have been written by a very fallible in-universe character(Lois Lane) somehow retcons all of Superman's previous battles into him pulling each and every punch he's thrown... Especially when Superman himself made it quite clear nearly 2 years ago(in Superman #13) that he was going to stop holding back:
http://imgur.com/08EyDYb
"My recent encounter with Helspont made me realize I need to push myself further than I have before."
Written by the same author who wrote the comic.
And he didn't know his limits in Superman 13 either. Or do I have to post the scans of Veritas saying so?
What you're doing is essentially "I don't like it so I discard it saying its a throwaway line."
And Lois knows every secret of Superman since she gained her psi-powers.
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Yes, because trying to use an extremely ambiguous in-universe blurb as a means to retcon every single battle Superman has had up to this point, just makes so much logical sense, right? Keep digging, though... Maybe one day you'll hit oil. 👆
Anywho, I'd be more than happy to get a mod ruling on the subject if you'd like..? 🙂
Originally posted by Epicurus
What are you talking about? Pak wrote down that scene exactly the way this trope is played out in every other fictional media.No need to put your own twist on it.
Its pretty clearly deemed as an all out strength showing though.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really. But I don't want to argue whatever you think it was.Its pretty clearly deemed as an all out strength showing though.
What relevancy does that have? I guess the next time the Surfer manages to kill a couple of Proemial Gods, we'll just go ahead and say that he was holding back in all previous showings, right?
Originally posted by Galan007
Yes, because trying to use an extremely ambiguous in-universe blurb as a means to retcon every single battle Superman has had up to this point, just makes so much logical sense, right? Keep digging, though... Maybe one day you'll hit oil. 👆Anywho, I'd be more than happy to get a mod ruling on the subject if you'd like..? 🙂
If that's what you like, go for it.
👆
Originally posted by Epicurus
It was a wtf-impossible-to-perform feat, no matter how much you want to pretend that Superman was just holding back.What relevancy does that have? I guess the next time the Surfer manages to kill a couple of Proemial Gods, we'll just go ahead and say that he was holding back in all previous showings, right?
When Surfer kills them with his own power, call me. But throwing strawman arguments again?
😂
Originally posted by abhilegend
Just like plowing through imperiex probes. Yet, writers have made Superman perform such feats because he stopped holding back.When Surfer kills them with his own power, call me. But throwing strawman arguments again?
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He did kill them under his own power. How is comparing 2 Cthullu-punchout feats a strawman?
Come on. 😬
Originally posted by abhilegendLike I said earlier: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? The earth? The universe? The omniverse? WHO? That is very subjective/ambiguous.
Ambiguous? In what sense exactly?
Originally posted by abhilegendAn ambiguous, throwaway blurb is EXACTLY what that qualifies as. You're simply trying to glorify that line because you think it makes your pet character look better. Sorry, but that simply isn't sufficient evidence to retcon every single battle Superman has had thus far... Not by a long shot.
Dismissing it as "blurb" or "throwaway" isn't an argument.
Originally posted by abhilegendIf you keep pressing the issue, I'll contact Bada and Pr first thing in the morning and let them squash this. 🙂
If that's what you like, go for it.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Ambiguous? In what sense exactly? And its not like writers haven't done such retcons. Remember HOTM and No Limits where Pak and Loeb retconned every showing Superman or Hulk had as holding back? Yeah, that's what it is. Dismissing it as "blurb" or "throwaway" isn't an argument.If that's what you like, go for it.
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It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.
On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.
Originally posted by Epicurus
But he wasn't holding back here. And the imperiex probe stuff is totally incomparable to this one, considering the different circumstances.He did kill them under his own power. How is comparing 2 Cthullu-punchout feats a strawman?
Come on. 😬
I didn't know crunch energies are Surfer's own power.
Come on what? You're trying to dismiss Superman having a high end feat when Superman was actually weakened when he performed that feat. He passed out just after that FFS.
Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said earlier: 'never before witnessed' by who, exactly? Lois and co.? The earth? The universe? The omniverse? WHO? That is very subjective/ambiguous.An ambiguous, throwaway blurb is EXACTLY what that qualifies as. You're simply trying to glorify that line because you think it makes your pet character look better. Sorry, but that simply isn't sufficient evidence to retcon every single battle Superman has had thus far... Not by a long shot.
If you keep pressing the issue, I'll contact Bada and Pr first thing in the morning and let them squash this. 🙂
Its simply to inform the readers what actually happened in the comic. No different than a summary of a previous comic. Its not ambiguous in the least.
Again with a "blurb" or "throwaway"? That's not an argument, its a way to dismiss on panel proofs. Can't say I'm surprised though.
Squash? We'll see.
Originally posted by Epicurus
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.
On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.
Superman was actually weakened when he tore Doomsday apart, and going all out is a FAR better explanation than he simply tore apart Doomsday for no reason at all. But going from getting dominated in h2h to tearing someone apart with his bare hands in just a high end feat? Have you seen any other top tier having done such a feat?
What Apollo did to superman is many magnitudes less than what Helspont did. Helspont gave superman a concussion, while Apollo just back handed him away.
Superman is 250lbs and a class 100 being should be able to swat him away using a cheap shot. If it had knocked superman out, I would have given him the win. But all it did was to confirm to superman that he didn't have to hold back.
On the flip side, I can say that Apollo did alot more damage to FB than to superman. FB's skin was burned to a crisp, granted it didn't knock him out, but Apollo didn't knock out Superman either. The same attack powered superman and he then treated Apollo like a feeble human.
Superman beats the glorified Hercules.
Originally posted by Epicurus
But it wasn't even mentioned in that feat that he was holding back.It's just an outlierish high-end feat. To be expected when written under Pak.
On a sidenote, I wonder where Philosophia and Juntai are at. Superman-fans hate Pak for his Hulk writing, but as soon as Superman starts getting over the top feats, all of that is ignored.
I don't know why you would think that, I actually loved planet hulk and believe it or not, HOM Hulk. You can search my post history and I posted scans from those comics that no one else has.
Originally posted by DiesldudeWow...........there are all sorts of things wrong with what you just said. You're ignoring that Apollo swatted superman away like he was a gnat and and FB demolished Apollo physically. You also went so far as to ignore that First Born had been tortured for god knows how long and was severely weakened before Apollo even began blasting him. You also ignored that Apollo's blasts only powered superman because they were sunlight. Meanwhile, FB didn't have the luxury of being a solar battery and he still tanked all of Apollo's blasts. So basically, you're thinking that Superman wins because he had less damage done to him and you're saying that First Born loses because he was hurt more in his fight with Apollo (even though he was severely weakened)
What Apollo did to superman is many magnitudes less than what Helspont did. Helspont gave superman a concussion, while Apollo just back handed him away.Superman is 250lbs and a class 100 being should be able to swat him away using a cheap shot. If it had knocked superman out, I would have given him the win. But all it did was to confirm to superman that he didn't have to hold back.
On the flip side, I can say that Apollo did alot more damage to FB than to superman. FB's skin was burned to a crisp, granted it didn't knock him out, but Apollo didn't knock out Superman either. The same attack powered superman and he then treated Apollo like a feeble human.
Superman beats the glorified Hercules.
Originally posted by abhilegendPak isn't writing hulk anymore and from what i hear he's getting his ass kicked by abomination among other far-lesser than green scar showings. big deal.
The gamma prophet, Greg Pak has betrayed church of gamma.Come join House of El gundam.
nah. all you house of el people know how each other tastes. huge pass on that
Originally posted by deathslash
Wow...........there are all sorts of things wrong with what you just said. You're ignoring that Apollo swatted superman away like he was a gnat and and FB demolished Apollo physically. You also went so far as to ignore that First Born had been tortured for god knows how long and was severely weakened before Apollo even began blasting him. You also ignored that Apollo's blasts only powered superman because they were sunlight. Meanwhile, FB didn't have the luxury of being a solar battery and he still tanked all of Apollo's blasts. So basically, you're thinking that Superman wins because he had less damage done to him and you're saying that First Born loses because he was hurt more in his fight with Apollo (even though he was severely weakened)
You misunderstood, Apollo got one sneaky cheap shot on superman and people are assuming that is how he stands with superman while he got demolished by FB, thus giving fb the edge.
Didn't WW beat up Apollo ? Same ww who got destroyed by doomsday that got torn by superman?
I did say that superman was harmed much less than fb and is much more durable. I also know that sounds ludicrous because superman got charged by that type of attack by Apollo but it's just as ludicrous as using the cheap shot smack to gauge strength levels.
Originally posted by abhilegend
What? How is this incomparable to Probes scene? Superman goes from barely making the probes dent to plowing right through them. Just like here.I didn't know crunch energies are Surfer's own power.
Come on what? You're trying to dismiss Superman having a high end feat when Superman was actually weakened when he performed that feat. He passed out just after that FFS.
Maniping energies which even Galactus couldn't allegedly control is a feat in itself. He did that and then used that juice to kill the Proemial Gods, hence the feat was performed under his own power. Though nice attempt to deflect from the fact that it's a WTF-feat, just like Superman's.
I am not doing anything of the sort. I am dismissing your self-made twist on the feat that Superman holds back in every previous showing. He had to exert quite a bit to do what he did to Doomsday, as the panels themselves showcase.
Not holding back, as much as it is him pushing his limits further. This isn't a matter of reading comprehension, just basic English. Come on man.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman was actually weakened when he tore Doomsday apart, and going all out is a FAR better explanation than he simply tore apart Doomsday for no reason at all. But going from getting dominated in h2h to tearing someone apart with his bare hands in just a high end feat? Have you seen any other top tier having done such a feat?
TBH, it's a stretch to use this outlierish feat to claim that Superman can easily beat FB.