Darth Traya vs Mace Windu,Yoda,and ROTS Obi Wan

I'm on mobile so I must be brief sadly.

1. The animation matches Force Drain.

2. Force Sever is known to Jedi and is non lethal. Also, it is not infallible. Exar Kun resisted Odan-Urr's attempt even though the latter pretty much mastered the technique during the Great Hyperspace Wars.

3. In a Dark Side Exile playthru, she explicitly feeds on the Jedi Masters one at a time using the same animation and gains power in doing so.

In light of this, Gigadrain is not Force Sever, and furthermore you have not established any reason why this trio would succeed where the council members failed. Hell, Kavar was able to Force stun an entire cantina while on Onderon, arguably a Dark Side nexus thanks to the Krath. They were not weak mooks with high titles.

What are Traya's TK feats other than movie some lightsabers with precision?

Kind of a red herring, don't you think?

She smacks the Jedi Council around a bit.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Kind of a red herring, don't you think?

No, not really. This may be a who hits who first.

Sidious can knock Maul unconscious with a mere force push, and choke Dooku instantly while at a distance of lightyears. Seeing how Dooku can casually overpower most force users of his era, and was well known for his mastery in that area, I don't see how Kreia would be able to defend against a TK attack from Yoda if Dooku can't from Sidious, unless she is a more powerful TK user than Dooku, which is why I'm asking for feats.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uh yes. Kreia presumably gives the Exile a run for her money, the same Exile who canonically stomped the entire Trayus Academy. I'd bet my left nut that if Kavar, Vrook, and Zek-Kai El were brazen enough to assault the Trayus Academy they'd get their asses handed to them on a silver platter.

"The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomenon can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold."
^This is exactly what you do with Kreia's gigadrain.

Because they are individually not strong enough to do that. Just because 3 5's can't beat a large number of 3's but a 7 can doesn't change the fact that combined they equal 15. Remember that right before the Exile did that the Council immobilized her and would have stripped her of the Force against her will. Kreia's power is presumably not large enough that she's equal to the combined power of those 3 Jedi.

I was only joking that the Giga Drain can't be beat. But you are thinking of it in the wrong manner. It is not a question of capacity or threshold, its one of vulnerability. Its like how Superman is stronger than sex but has no defense against magic. Despite the magic being not nearly as powerful as Superman, his vulnerability renders that a moot point and he is damaged by it as human would be.

Voldemort versus Supes?

This is what I was talking about in the other thread. As soon as it's agreed that a non-PT Jedi/Sith has an unblockable instakill move, the PT proponents immediately start arguing the extremely unlikely scenario where the other person can simply kill them before they use it. Just like with Sion, where it's agreed that he can't be killed in conventional means, people start arguing that he's of no real threat anyway and start arguing extremely unlikely scenarios where he might be destroyed.

Maybe just acknowledge that unkillable Sith and Sith that can instantly kill 10 Sith at once or three Jedi Masters at once are better than people like Yoda and Mace Windu who are remarkably pedestrian by comparison?

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Voldemort versus Supes?

Superman may have no defense against magic, but he can still punch Voldemort at mach 200 before he can twitch.

Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
This is what I was talking about in the other thread. As soon as it's agreed that a non-PT Jedi/Sith has an unblockable instakill move, the PT proponents immediately start arguing the extremely unlikely scenario where the other person can simply kill them before they use it. Just like with Sion, where it's agreed that he can't be killed in conventional means, people start arguing that he's of no real threat anyway and start arguing extremely unlikely scenarios where he might be destroyed.

Maybe just acknowledge that unkillable Sith and Sith that can instantly kill 10 Sith at once or three Jedi Masters at once are better than people like Yoda and Mace Windu who are remarkably pedestrian by comparison?

Movie bias is very strong.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Superman may have no defense against magic, but he can still punch Voldemort at mach 200 before he can twitch.

Make the thread for Quan.

That would require me to want to see Quan post.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That would require me to want to see Quan post.

Touché.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Movie bias is very strong.

EU bias is pretty potent too, in these parts. You're aroused at the prospect of Vitiate and Nihilus Force-nomming worlds... but then Sidious Force chokes Dooku and you're enraged.

You don't think there's a bit of a double standard there?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
EU bias is pretty potent too, in these parts. You're aroused at the prospect of Vitiate and Nihilus Force-nomming worlds... but then Sidious Force chokes Dooku and you're enraged.

You don't think there's a bit of a double standard there?

Eh, I don't like inconsistency in character portrayal. I get that Sidious is superior, but Dooku should not get the same level of treatment from him that Yoda gave to Ventress. It shows a disparity which simply didn't exist prior to this.

But there's other stuff which bothers me far more. Like Barriss Offee's mischaracterization, Ventress' oscillation from murder machine to jobber, and Grievous doing the same. Overall, the films and their related content have become a tremendous headache, whereas most EU is relatively contained and consistent within itself, if nothing else.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Except that the narration specifically builds it to be a killing device which requires a certain defense or nature to overcome, and is not a defense regularly known to Jedi. Anakin learned it from fallen Sith Ulic, and the Exile is specifically a wound so she is exempt from its effects. Traya, Sion, and Nihilus all had specific training in the draining arts.

It's not being "extrapolated to infinity" when it simply kills in absence of a practical defense. Either you can prove that the Jedi have such a defense (which again, evidence does not suggest) or you can't, and they die. Whining about the unfairness doesn't change the facts.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Yoda has shown the ability to resist Sith magic from the most powerful sith lord in history on a DS nexus, whilst exhausted, his defenses are significant.
Also, she has no speed feats. Sidious can blitz a Jedi Master before said master can raise a blade, I see no reason Yoda couldn't cut Kreia's head off before she can raise a hand.

Actually, the B team did raise their blades.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Yoda has shown the ability to resist Sith magic from the most powerful sith lord in history on a DS nexus, whilst exhausted, his defenses are significant.
Also, she has no speed feats. Sidious can blitz a Jedi Master before said master can raise a blade, I see no reason Yoda couldn't cut Kreia's head off before she can raise a hand.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, the B team did raise their blades.

👆

They had more time to respond to her attack than Kun did against Odan-Urr. In any case, you're using "Sith magic" incorrectly; Dark Side Force use is not always Sith magic. The drain requires a specific defense which is hammered home repeatedly during KotOR 2. The fact that you ignore this and reassert that Yoda will defend by virtue of being really strong doesn't change that.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually, the B team did raise their blades.

The B team has better speed feats than Kreia does. Also as brought up earlier what is stopping Yoda from pinning her to the ground with TK. Where was Kreia's great giga drain when Nihilus demolished her with a simple force push.

I didn't realize you needed a better speed feat then "Raise hand, other people die".

Please, enlighten us.

EDIT: How was Traya going to gigadrain Nihilus, a wound.

LMFAO. You people.

Originally posted by Stealth Moose
I didn't realize you needed a better speed feat then "Raise hand, other people die".

Uh obviously. There's not even proof giga drain could tag Yoda. Dooku was able to easily dodge a combined Force Push from Skywalker and Kenobi.

And also again, yes Traya is far more powerful than the three Jedi Council members. She ***** slaps the three of them casually, then when Vrook (likely the strongest of the trio) gets back up he gets slapped down again. Even without Giga Drain it was clear how that was going to go down. And if it comes down to who can raise their hand faster Yoda has shown to be faster and have better reactions than Kreia.

EDIT: How was Traya going to gigadrain Nihilus, a wound.

LMFAO. You people.

Also did Traya even know that you couldn't drain someone like Nihilus? Because Nihilus himself certainly didn't know.