It's ludicrous to assume Yoda doesn't have a defense against Kreia's drain, when he can go against the most powerful Sith Lord in history toe-to-toe. The fact that he hasn't shown a defensive technique against this drain doesn't mean he doesn't have one. For God's sake, he's the most knowledgeable Jedi of the PT era and arguably one of the most knowledgeable Jedi in history.
I'm not entirely sure about this, but isn't Yoda stated to have a defense against every dark side technique?
Its reasonable to assume he'd be familiar with Traya's technique, and perhaps has some inkling of knowing how to defend. But I think he'd still take a major hit from Traya, I don't see her surviving the match either. Obi wan will die as a result of the drain IMO, and Windu and Yoda both partially trained but they more than likely will still have enough energy to take her out
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Uh obviously. There's not even proof giga drain could tag Yoda.
It's not a LOS attack or a tennis ball. Pretty sure Nihilus didn't need iron sights to tag his foes either.
This is ridiculous thought method here.
Dooku was able to easily dodge a combined Force Push from Skywalker and Kenobi.
And TK pushes are one of the few actually dodgable attacks, and is nothing like Force Drain. Again, unless you have an instance of someone dodging Force Drain, this argument is fruitless.
And also again, yes Traya is far more powerful than the three Jedi Council members. She ***** slaps the three of them casually, then when Vrook (likely the strongest of the trio) gets back up he gets slapped down again. Even without Giga Drain it was clear how that was going to go down.
Traya was probably going to be able to stomp them anyways, but her drain is pretty much an instant win card in most battles. Not sure why she would solidly be above them, in the same way Sidious is well above Maul/Savage, and yet be a pleb before this trio, but I guess she lacks OMG TONS OF FEATS.
And if it comes down to who can raise their hand faster Yoda has shown to be faster and have better reactions than Kreia.
Yoda's TK against Sidious in the chancellor's office was no faster than Traya's wave of the hand, and her attack has the benefit of a one-hit KO that isn't a skillshot.
Your arguments here are rather baseless.
Also did Traya even know that you couldn't drain someone like Nihilus? Because Nihilus himself certainly didn't know.
She trains the Exile for the express purpose of using her nature against Nihilus, so I'd hope so.
Have you even played the game?
Originally posted by Petrus
It's ludicrous to assume Yoda doesn't have a defense against Kreia's drain, when he can go against the most powerful Sith Lord in history toe-to-toe.
Even though Sidious has never used Force Drain in combat?
Should his hardly qualified title as opponent be used as evidence instead of actual demonstrated power on behalf of Yoda or Sidious for that matter? (Sids never drained a Jedi)
"DOOKU BLOCKS TULAK HORD'S TK BY VIRTUE OF BEING THE BEST JEDI IN 10K YEARS".
^ New debate technique.
The fact that he hasn't shown a defensive technique against this drain doesn't mean he doesn't have one.
No, but the onus of proof is on those asserting that he does have it, since it is explicitly a rare ability and unpracticed in the PT era. For that matter, we don't see a similar ability until well after Yoda's dead (Dark Empire) and it's used in a ritual.
For God's sake, he's the most knowledgeable Jedi of the PT era and arguably one of the most knowledgeable Jedi in history.
... And the Jedi Order had no knowledge of this same technique back when Sion and his mooks were butchering them. True Sith of Vitiate's time had knowledge of the ability and he ate them anyways.
Unless there's proof, this wishful thinking defense mechanism doesn't hold water.
I'm not entirely sure about this, but isn't Yoda stated to have a defense against every dark side technique?
I don't know. Do you have a source?
Originally posted by carthage
Its reasonable to assume he'd be familiar with Traya's technique, and perhaps has some inkling of knowing how to defend.
Why?
This is an instance of a specific defense being needed. It was so rare Ulic's ghost had to teach Anakin Skywalker (and not Yoda). Why is everyone assuming that Yoda has the defense even though he's never shown it, never talked about it, and the need to practice it has never in his lifetime come up?
But I think he'd still take a major hit from Traya, I don't see her surviving the match either. Obi wan will die as a result of the drain IMO, and Windu and Yoda both partially trained but they more than likely will still have enough energy to take her out
If only it worked like that.
I'm not sure of anything Traya has drained that just "got weak, but still fought on". The bodies of the Jedi trio on Dantooine are pretty much wounds in the Force themselves, bereft of all life.
That doesn't act anything like some kind of battery sap that you suggest.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It's not a LOS attack or a tennis ball. Pretty sure Nihilus didn't need iron sights to tag his foes either.
You would be wrong. He tried to drain the exile.
This is ridiculous thought method here.And TK pushes are one of the few actually dodgable attacks, and is nothing like Force Drain. Again, unless you have an instance of someone dodging Force Drain, this argument is fruitless.
No limits fallacy. Its a tangible beam. If it didn't have to make contact with the person to work there'd be no reason to use the beam in the first place.
There's also no instance of Force Drain tagging someone nearly as fast as Yoda.
Traya was probably going to be able to stomp them anyways, but her drain is pretty much an instant win card in most battles. Not sure why she would solidly be above them, in the same way Sidious is well above Maul/Savage, and yet be a pleb before this trio, but I guess she lacks OMG TONS OF FEATS.
What? Why would she not be solidly above the trio? She put an on guard Vrook on his ass.
Yoda's TK against Sidious in the chancellor's office was no faster than Traya's wave of the hand, and her attack has the benefit of a one-hit KO that isn't a skillshot.
Bullshit. Sidious is one of the fastest characters in the mythos, and yet he was tagged by Yoda's TK. Considering both Dooku and Grievous people slower than Sidious have been shown capable of dodging TKs, it seems likely Yoda's TK is you guessed it faster than most other's TKs.
Your arguments here are rather baseless.
Coming from the man who's argument hinges on a no limits fallacy. Traya draining featless mooks automatically means she can defeat the most powerful Jedi Master in history? Seems ridiculous to me. If that attack were so OP why did no other Sith Master in history try and use it? Why did Sidious not just gigadrain Yoda when he walked into his office? Why did Krayt not simply gigadrain the New Jedi Order he had access Nihilus' holocron for crying out loud.
Also you mean to tell me Yoda the Grand Master who sent Jedi to guard the ruins on Rhen Var never accessed Ulic Qel Droma's teachings?
She trains the Exile for the express purpose of using her nature against Nihilus, so I'd hope so.Have you even played the game?
I remember her hoping that the Exile would be able to. Seemed more like a theory than anything.
Even though Sidious has never used Force Drain in combat?Should his hardly qualified title as opponent be used as evidence instead of actual demonstrated power on behalf of Yoda or Sidious for that matter? (Sids never drained a Jedi)
"DOOKU BLOCKS TULAK HORD'S TK BY VIRTUE OF BEING THE BEST JEDI IN 10K YEARS".
^ New debate technique.
Uh yes, Dooku being one of the most and powerful Jedi in the 25,000 history of the Order and a more powerful Sith Lord means he could very likely block Tulak Hord's TK.
No, but the onus of proof is on those asserting that he does have it, since it is explicitly a rare ability and unpracticed in the PT era. For that matter, we don't see a similar ability until well after Yoda's dead (Dark Empire) and it's used in a ritual.
Or...the Dark Reaper.
... And the Jedi Order had no knowledge of this same technique back when Sion and his mooks were butchering them. True Sith of Vitiate's time had knowledge of the ability and he ate them anyways.
Yes they did. The Dark Reaper comes to mind.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]Why didn't Qui-Gon's ghost teach all of his friends how to ghost before Anakin turned into a dick?I don't know.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Why didn't Qui-Gon's ghost teach all of his friends how to ghost before Anakin turned into a dick?I don't know.
Originally posted by Lord StarkRed herring, but I'll entertain this.
Qui-Gon learns to ghost while dead. That's why Yoda and Kenobi disappear when they die and Qui-Gon did not. If you notice Qui-Gon does appear via ghost briefly in Episode II, then fully in the Clone Wars on Mortis, then fully materializes (presumably) in Episode III.
It was explained in the last episodes of TCW, that Qui-Gon can only be heard, and not seen, because he never completed his Ghost training before dying. He can presumably be seen on Mortis because the Force is so strong there.
Also he seemed to be following certain after-life rules where he can only interfere to an extent. He couldn't tell Yoda who the Sith Lord was, but he could guide his Force Ghost training.
I'm also guessing Yoda was the only one powerful enough to communicate with Qui-Gon initially. Remember Yoda tells Kenobi in ROTS that he will have to teach him how to communicate with Qui-Gon.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
You would be wrong. He tried to drain the exile.
This has nothing to do with what I was saying.
You implied that the Drain could be physically dodged, even though it is never dodged in any way throughout KotOR 2. This is an unproven assertion on your part and you failed to prove it, so it can be dismissed as a possibility. Otherwise, things might have gone like this:
ANAKIN: How do I shot Dark Reaper?
ULIC: Have you tried dodging? I hear it's effective, because this ability is just like Force Lightning, which travels in a slow visible arc, and Force Push, which is TK actually shoving compressed air or something instead of actually exerting actual force on the individual, thus making it undodgable.
ANAKIN: Wait a second; why the hell would I make a Force push dodgable? The Force is a galaxy-wide presence. And if it was compressed air, why can't we see the physical effects of the displaced air? I mean, it presumably can toss a human being like a ragdoll. WTF?
ULIC: Because Star Wars writers are ****ing morons, Anakin. Now, I'm going to teach you a special ability to block the Dark Reaper, even though I never demonstrated this knowledge or ability in the primary media in which I appeared...
No limits fallacy.
You keep using this term, but I don't think you know what it means. You just think it's some catch-all defense for an ability your argument can't defeat, so you dismiss it as being impractical.
Let's review the definition again:
[list]The no limits fallacy is the illogical idea that a poorly understood phenomenon can be extrapolated to infinity or assumed to not have any maximum value or threshold. For a gross example, observing that a shield can easily withstand an attack from a particular weapon, one might illogically conclude that the shield could withstand fire from an unlimited number of those weapons at the same time, or that it could withstand fire from a similar weapon that was much more powerful. [/list]
This might make more sense if, in light of the definition, Force Drain was a shield we were saying could take infinite hits, or an ability that can murder infinite Jedi. But nobody's saying that. The ability explicitly kills Force users by not only sapping their connection to the Force but by sapping their life energy as well.
[list] "As much as one may use the Force to bolster the wills and strengths of others, the reverse is possible, though not often used. Instead of sending one's will through connections in the Force, instead such connections are drawn upon, fed upon, and drained completely."
―Kreia[/list]
Its a tangible beam. If it didn't have to make contact with the person to work there'd be no reason to use the beam in the first place.
It's a visual representation of a potent attack. Watch it again:
Hell, it's faster than the TK shown by either her or Yoda, and it's also ridiculously impossible to dodge, given that it covers the distance between them near-instantly and is made up of an arcing spider web.
I might give you the benefit of the doubt if this attack was ever physically dodged, but it's not.
There's also no instance of Force Drain tagging someone nearly as fast as Yoda.
There you go again, assuming it's a paintball gun or something. Unless you think Yoda will be going Mach V as soon as the fight begins, and Traya cannot possibly lock on (which again, is an unsupported assumption at best; the ability is never shown requiring a lock-on and is used successfully by a blind Sith of all things) she can TK him while he's moving and force him to react or fly into a wall.
Or if you want me to play dirty, then Traya can tag him easily, because Sidious tagged him with Force lightning before the guy could drop his staff. Might as well low-ball it, if you're going to be silly.
What? Why would she not be solidly above the trio? She put an on guard Vrook on his ass.
That's the point; she was explicitly above all of them. These were the same three Jedi who froze the Exile in stasis while giving her a lecture, and furthermore had a few minutes while Traya was backtalking them to formulate an offense/defense. And they still lost horribly.
So tell me, why are you believing that Yoda is inherently superior to a person who treated three Jedi Council members as Sidious treats named mooks like Fisto, Tiin, and Koth?
Bullshit. Sidious is one of the fastest characters in the mythos, and yet he was tagged by Yoda's TK.
Hestizo Trace begs to differ, but that's irrelevant. Neither Sidious or Yoda show the ability to uber-dodge attacks with as little telegraphy as "I wave my hand back and forth". Yoda got tagged by Sids' lightning early on, and later while I give him due credit for soaking and redirecting superior lightning, he still lost his saber and nearly his balance from the blast.
Yoda is not infallibly fast just because he can perform tons of flips. I don't think you understand this concept very well. And this all hinges on Yoda being blitz-fast, against an attack that's near-instant.
Considering both Dooku and Grievous people slower than Sidious have been shown capable of dodging TKs, it seems likely Yoda's TK is you guessed it faster than most other's TKs.
See above dialogue about the stupidity of dodging TK, but in any case, Yoda's TK is not inherently faster. It also seems likely that you're just slinging shit out there in a vague attempt to refute the facts that you don't like, because god forbid Yoda lose a fight or anything.
Coming from the man who's argument hinges on a no limits fallacy.
Traya draining featless mooks automatically means she can defeat the most powerful Jedi Master in history? Seems ridiculous to me.
Possibly. It's not an issue of her being conclusively more powerful than Yoda so much as him not having the precise defense for an ability she knows, that can kill someone.
Raw power alone doesn't prevent the attack. If it did, pretty sure this means Nihilus is more powerful than a planetful of Force-users, including Vandar and co, and that sounds far more ridiculous than what you take objection to here.
If that attack were so OP why did no other Sith Master in history try and use it?
Quite a few did. Tulak Hord, IIRC, is noted as draining Jedi, Malak used it on fallen Jedi, Vitiate used it and some of his circle may have, the ancient True Sith did (Ragnos' sceptre drains, as does Sadow's Dark Reaper), Sidious uses it via ritual in DE, and Kun used it via ritual in TSW. It seems to be an ancient art, and not well understood to most, which is why anytime someone starts using it, they immediately catapult to the top of the Sith food chain.
Why did Sidious not just gigadrain Yoda when he walked into his office?
The simplest answer is that GL never intended for Sidious to possess such a power. But an EU answer would be that potentially Sidious didn't know the ability well enough to attempt it, or at that point in his life lacked the mastery of it.
DE supports that he learned of it, and his commentary on Book of the Sith implies that he had great knowledge of the ancients. But he is never shown using it in a combat situation. The idea that he would keep this ability in reserve is simply ridiculous, since it buffs the user (hence why Vitiate becomes a Force titan after noming his whole planet and then some). Given Sidious' lack of use for lots of Force-wielding followers and glee in Force-dominating people, I'm pretty sure he'd be eating people left, right and center if he had the chance.
Ockham's Razor lends to the conclusion that either he didn't know the ability during RotS, lacked the specific knowledge to use it in combat (again, hence the later ritual), or he was afraid to use it for some unknown reason. The idea that he knew it, but didn't use it to spite himself is simply retarded and should not be entertained.
Why did Krayt not simply gigadrain the New Jedi Order he had access Nihilus' holocron for crying out loud.
The Gatekeeper of the holocron didn't like Krayt. A scan here made that abundantly clear.
Also you mean to tell me Yoda the Grand Master who sent Jedi to guard the ruins on Rhen Var never accessed Ulic Qel Droma's teachings?
This would imply that he communed with Ulic's ghost, since the spirit itself gave Anakin the knowledge. Again, you're reaching here. Either you have definitive proof, or you have baseless conjectures. You can't have both.
I remember her hoping that the Exile would be able to. Seemed more like a theory than anything.
Considering she's the one who taught Nihilus to refine his drain and taught Sion and his mooks the same, I'd say her knowledge on the matter is bordering on expert.
But this was a red herring in the first place. Traya would never stupidly drain Nihilus, and it was foolish to even bring it up.
Uh yes, Dooku being one of the most and powerful Jedi in the 25,000 history of the Order and a more powerful Sith Lord means he could very likely block Tulak Hord's TK.
Considering Tulak Hord dragged Endar Spire-sized ships out of orbit and killed whole armies of Jedi with just his cleft-face man-servant for company, I highly doubt this. You also completely missed the point of the example.
Stealth Moose
The simplest answer is that GL never intended for Sidious to possess such a power. But an EU answer would be that potentially Sidious didn't know the ability well enough to attempt it, or at that point in his life lacked the mastery of it.DE supports that he learned of it, and his commentary on Book of the Sith implies that he had great knowledge of the ancients. But he is never shown using it in a combat situation. The idea that he would keep this ability in reserve is simply ridiculous, since it buffs the user (hence why Vitiate becomes a Force titan after noming his whole planet and then some). Given Sidious' lack of use for lots of Force-wielding followers and glee in Force-dominating people, I'm pretty sure he'd be eating people left, right and center if he had the chance.
Ockham's Razor lends to the conclusion that either he didn't know the ability during RotS, lacked the specific knowledge to use it in combat (again, hence the later ritual), or he was afraid to use it for some unknown reason. The idea that he knew it, but didn't use it to spite himself is simply retarded and should not be entertained.
Perhaps, like Vitiate's lack of dazzling esoteric techniques in his confrontations with Revan and the player in TOR, Sidious had no general need for such things?
Stealth Moose
Considering Tulak Hord dragged Endar Spire-sized ships out of orbit
Allegedly and through unknown circumstances.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
If that attack were so OP why did no other Sith Master in history try and use it? Why did Sidious not just gigadrain Yoda when he walked into his office? Why did Krayt not simply gigadrain the New Jedi Order he had access Nihilus' holocron for crying out loud.
Avellone taking about this in an interview. The Ancient Sith knew about the technique but didn't make widespread use of it because using it turns you into well, Nihilus, an addict who is a slave to the ability and compleetly unable to actually capitalise on his power. Furthermore Traya makes it a point to destroy knowledge of the technique in the game. She gives a speech to the Exile about the technique being ultra dangerous and that's why they need to destroy the Triumvirate and ensure that no-one ever uses it again. Which she actually does through getting the Exile to kill them all.
Sidious would be too smart to turn into a crazed junkie just to win one fight. Even if he did know the technique.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Perhaps, like Vitiate's lack of dazzling esoteric techniques in his confrontations with Revan and the player in TOR, Sidious had no general need for such things?
Yeah, the idea of draining your foe dry, when it's well within your capabilities and is ridiculously easy, is entirely undesirable and therefore Sith chivalry will ensue.
It's still speculation. I granted that Sidious knows of the ability by DE, enough to drain a planet even, but he never shows it in RotS which is the whole point against M. Yoda's assertion here.
Even if Sidious knew the ability and didn't use it because he hated how it tasted or whatever doesn't change Yoda's situation here at all. It's a red herring.
Allegedly and through unknown circumstances.
Admittedly, but given it's some of the only evidence we have available about the man, any speculation on our behalf has to consider the possibility that it may be correct. IF it is, THEN it seems likely Hord would chuck Dooku around like a doll. Given that a pissed off Sidious or Savage can TK Dooku, Tulak Hord probably wouldn't break a sweat.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Avellone taking about this in an interview. The Ancient Sith knew about the technique but didn't make widespread use of it because using it turns you into well, Nihilus, an addict who is a slave to the ability and compleetly unable to actually capitalise on his power. Furthermore Traya makes it a point to destroy knowledge of the technique in the game. She gives a speech to the Exile about the technique being ultra dangerous and that's why they need to destroy the Triumvirate and ensure that no-one ever uses it again. Which she actually does through getting the Exile to kill them all.Sidious would be too smart to turn into a crazed junkie just to win one fight. Even if he did know the technique.
Did not remember this, but this would explain why the ancient Sith just don't drain each other from their thrones all day. However, only Nihilus is shown becoming a wound, and that's specifically because of the accident on Malachor V, so the explanation isn't perfect.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Yeah, the idea of draining your foe dry, when it's well within your capabilities and is ridiculously easy, is entirely undesirable and therefore Sith chivalry will ensue.It's still speculation. I granted that Sidious knows of the ability by DE, enough to drain a planet even, but he never shows it in RotS which is the whole point against M. Yoda's assertion here.
Even if Sidious knew the ability and didn't use it because he hated how it tasted or whatever doesn't change Yoda's situation here at all. It's a red herring.
I don't disagree. I'm just saying that we can apply the same paradigm to non-Sidious characters and come to a similarly uncomfortable outcome. I don't see Vitiate, another character extremely well-versed in dark side lore, spamming his enemies with a gamut of ancient and esoteric techniques... even when they'd really come in handy.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Admittedly, but given it's some of the only evidence we have available about the man, any speculation on our behalf has to consider the possibility that it may be correct. IF it is, THEN it seems likely Hord would chuck Dooku around like a doll. Given that a pissed off Sidious or Savage can TK Dooku, Tulak Hord probably wouldn't break a sweat.
As Stark pointed out, though, Dooku is one of the most powerful Sith Lords who ever lived. And Savage's feat, while impressive, was an extremely rare moment of rage in a fight that Dooku was otherwise dominating. I don't discount the idea that a handful of Sith Lords have the power to humiliate Dooku, but I'd need to see some serious evidence.
The Avellone interview is here, btw. If anyone wants to read it. Just scroll down to it.
The relevant part is this:
"As powerful as Nihilus’ ability is in the short term, the drawback is that it robs the user of almost identity but hunger, which is why is never employed by the Sith Lords of old... who had no wish to sublimate their identities for any reason."
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I don't disagree. I'm just saying that we can apply the same paradigm to non-Sidious characters and come to a similarly uncomfortable outcome. I don't see Vitiate, another character extremely well-versed in dark side lore, spamming his enemies with a gamut of ancient and esoteric techniques... even when they'd really come in handy.
True.
But then again, it'd be like a cripple fighting Superman. The game would suck if Vitiate just ate the opposing player party (although I admit it would be troll-tastic on behalf of the devs). Of course, this is the same game that has muggles dodging TK and killing Sith, an idea which just reeks of gameplay = fairplay.
The biggest difference is that between the two, Vitiate is known to have the ability to use Force Drain, as he has done so in the past. Prior to DE, Sidious has never shown the ability. Hence, it seems less reasonable to assume he is holding it in reserve than what is obviously the case with Vitiate.
It could also be that, as Neph pointed out, Force Drain is the meth of the Dark Side, and using it too much is bad even for Vitiate. The ancients seemed keen on using artifacts to do it instead of themselves. When Kun and Sidious both used a drain, they used a ritual with amplifiers and such, perhaps as a means to avoid personal damage or corruption (and DE implied that Sids was corrupted anyways for excessive Dark Side usage).
The only individuals we see using Drain without artifacts include the Sith Triumvirate. Even Malak was on the Star Forge when using his.
As Stark pointed out, though, Dooku is one of the most powerful Sith Lords who ever lived. And Savage's feat, while impressive, was an extremely rare moment of rage in a fight that Dooku was otherwise dominating. I don't discount the idea that a handful of Sith Lords have the power to humiliate Dooku, but I'd need to see some serious evidence.
Until TOR: Tulak Hord Lives expansion rolls out, you'll have to remain disappointed. Dooku's TK is not infallible, and Sidious' dominance of him suggests he has a hard cap that is lower than previously suspected. However, pulling a large starship from orbit is more impressive than anything Dooku has accomplished. If the feat is genuine, and at this point we have nothing to contradict the Dashade's account, then it stands to reason his TK is simply too immense for Dooku.
This ignores the fact that, according to all available evidence, he would carve Dooku up in seconds.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
True.But then again, it'd be like a cripple fighting Superman. The game would suck if Vitiate just ate the opposing player party (although I admit it would be troll-tastic on behalf of the devs). Of course, this is the same game that has muggles dodging TK and killing Sith, an idea which just reeks of gameplay = fairplay.
Well, sure, but we can apply that same PIS paradigm to Sidious as well.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The biggest difference is that between the two, Vitiate is known to have the ability to use Force Drain, as he has done so in the past. Prior to DE, Sidious has never shown the ability. Hence, it seems less reasonable to assume he is holding it in reserve than what is obviously the case with Vitiate.
Palpatine was using Force drain on a planetary scale on Byss prior to Dark Empire; Dark Empire was merely the first source to make us aware of his use of it.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
It could also be that, as Neph pointed out, Force Drain is the meth of the Dark Side, and using it too much is bad even for Vitiate. The ancients seemed keen on using artifacts to do it instead of themselves. When Kun and Sidious both used a drain, they used a ritual with amplifiers and such, perhaps as a means to avoid personal damage or corruption (and DE implied that Sids was corrupted anyways for excessive Dark Side usage).
Yeah, Neph and I had this discussion a while back. Which is actually why Sidious's use of it is so impressive. There is no source that I'm aware of that ascribes his drain to a ritual or with amplifiers. He merely used it cleverly and economically, over the course of what I presume to be years or decades (the extent of time is never confirmed).
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Until TOR: Tulak Hord Lives expansion rolls out, you'll have to remain disappointed.
As will you, because I'm not inclined to accept hearsay and legends as evidence... unless I can do so for Sidious, in which case, all's fair.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
Dooku's TK is not infallible, and Sidious' dominance of him suggests he has a hard cap that is lower than previously suspected.
I never claimed that Dooku's TK is infallible. But you need to accept that simply because Sidious can do X doesn't mean that anyone in the history of time can replicate it.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
However, pulling a large starship from orbit is more impressive than anything Dooku has accomplished. If the feat is genuine, and at this point we have nothing to contradict the Dashade's account, then it stands to reason his TK is simply too immense for Dooku.
The problem is that that's not how debate works. An unverified legend is not automatically taken as the gospel simply because there stands no immediate proof to the contrary. You would not, I think, be willing to accept such an unverified legend if, say, it benefited Sidious. Therefore I'm unsure as to why I should give Tulak Hord the benefit of the doubt here.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
This ignores the fact that, according to all available evidence, he would carve Dooku up in seconds.
You'll need to prove that.