-It's confirmed he struck down Malak's jaw off with a lightsaber.
-It's also stated he defeated mandalore in "single combat", very unlikely any force was involved.
-Like I said, many of the Dark Jedi knew force resistance, it's most likely he relied more heavily on his blade throughout the Star Forge then his force abilities, that would mainly be rendered useless.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
-It's confirmed he struck down Malak's jaw off with a lightsaber.
-It's also stated he defeated mandalore in "single combat", very unlikely any force was involved.
-Like I said, many of the Dark Jedi knew force resistance, it's most likely he relied more heavily on his blade throughout the Star Forge then his force abilities, that would mainly be rendered useless.
- Under unknown circumstances. Revan could have surprised Malak. Besides, Malak has no lightsaber feats or accolades either.
- Perhaps.
- Nox has also defeated Force resistant beings, such as a Terentatek and Khem Val, both while a mere acolyte training on Korriban.
- Under unknown circumstances. Revan could have surprised Malak. Besides, Malak has no lightsaber feats or accolades either.
Darth Malak can casually block hordes of blaster fire with ease.
Darth Malak was a powerful, "headstrong warrior".
"Malak gained a reputation as a headstrong warrior who would recklessly charge into danger. Malak's former Masters were well aware of this impetuousness during his days at the training academy on Dantooine."
-Star Wars Databanks
Darth Malak was better with a lightsaber then that of what he was with the Force, and was even "renowned for his combat abilities" (Keep in consideration his force abilities are badass).
"He was renowned for his combat abilities...I also felt that he wasn't as strong at using the Force in other ways as Revan was."
-Drew Karpyshyn; book writer
Many credit Darth Malak for the Republic's victory over the Mandalorians due to his "relentless fury" on the battlefield.
"While many credited the Revanchist's military strategies for the campaign success, others were quick to point to Alex's fierce courage and relentless fury on the forefront of every battle as the key part to Republic victory."
- Nox has also defeated Force resistant beings, such as a Terentatek and Khem Val, both while a mere acolyte training on Korriban.
Originally posted by ares834
Where is this stated? Class description amiright?Got the video?
"Whether facing a traitorous fellow Sith or a crowd of Republic soldiers, the Inquisitor fights with unlimited fury to create a storm of destruction. Expertise in conducting Force energies further allows Inquisitors to draw upon the life essence of themselves and others. This energy can be channeled to bolster their powers, harm their foes, and even to reinvigorate their allies. An Inquisitor's skills with a Lightsaber are equally impressive. Often wielding a double-bladed Lightsaber, Inquisitors use quick, guileful, and lethal maneuvers to strike their enemies down with astonishing speed."
16.00 onwards. You could argue Khem did the hard work, except Paladius credits his defeat solely to the Inquisitor.
So if we go with classes as canonical than Revan is a Jedi Knight who focus primarily on lightsaber. He is a "masters of the lightsaber arts", has "unmatched lightsaber prowess", has "unrivaled reflexes and practiced physical precision", and has honed "body and mind into perfect harmony".
As for defeating the Sith Lord, not bad but not highly impressive either. Unless said Sith Lord has some combat feats I am unaware of?
Originally posted by ares834
So if we go with classes as canonical than Revan is a Jedi Knight who focus primarily on lightsaber. He is a "masters of the lightsaber arts", has "unmatched lightsaber prowess", has "unrivaled reflexes and practiced physical precision", and has honed "body and mind into perfect harmony".As for defeating the Sith Lord, not bad but not highly impressive either. Unless said Sith Lord has some combat feats I am unaware of?
Where are you getting that Revan is a Jedi Knight? Either way, Jedi Knight isn't so much a class as it is a title that refers to basically every Jedi. Even Jedi Council members have been referred to as such.
Also, those quotes you are posting are talking about TOR era Jedi Knights. Revan was taught centuries before TOR. They don't apply to him. In fact, I thought that those class descriptions applied only to the TOR player characters.
Um, beating a full powered Sith Lord in lightsaber combat without the Force is really freaking good. Regardless of his combat feats, a Sith Lord is almost impossible for a normal person to beat in straight up melee. That Nox still beat him shows incredible skill.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Where are you getting that Revan is a Jedi Knight? Either way, Jedi Knight isn't so much a class as it is a title that refers to basically every Jedi. Even Jedi Council members have been referred to as such.
From the TOR campaign guide where it talks about the Jedi Knight class and mentions several characters that are JKs.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, those quotes you are posting are talking about TOR era Jedi Knights. Revan was taught centuries before TOR. They don't apply to him. In fact, I thought that those class descriptions applied only to the TOR player characters.
Why would they? The class guides use plural words meaning they refer to at least more than one character.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, beating a full powered Sith Lord in lightsaber combat without the Force is really freaking good. Regardless of his combat feats, as Sith Lord is almost impossible for a normal person to beat in straight up melee. That Nox still beat him shows incredible skill.
Not really. We've seen non-force users hold their own against and defeat Jedi/Sith in close combat before. Hell, Jango Fett killed several Jedi with "kung fu" in the "Open Seasons" comic. Unless this Sith actually has any decent combat feats or accolades I'm not not really impressed.
Originally posted by ares834
From the TOR campaign guide where it talks about the Jedi Knight class and mentions several characters that are JKs.
Oh yeah.
Originally posted by ares834
Why would they? The class guides use plural words meaning they refer to at least more than one character.
Thats just the impression I got. And I mean, obviously not every Jedi Knight can have 'unrivaled reflexes' and 'unmatched lightsaber prowess'. Even though they use plurals, I thought it was only in the respect that as an MMO theres multiple Jedi Knights running around.
Originally posted by ares834
Not really. We've seen non-force users hold their own against and defeat Jedi/Sith in close combat before. Hell, Jango Fett killed several Jedi with "kung fu" in the "Open Seasons" comic. Unless this Sith actually has any decent combat feats or accolades I'm not not really impressed.
Oh wow and its not like Jango is one of the most skilled and dangerous Bounty Hunters in history or anything. Jedi and Sith have superspeed (and strength), enhanced reflexes, precognition, a host of other abilities and are pretty much the two best trained fighting forces in the galaxy. For a normal, unenhanced person (as Nox was at the time) to defeat one in close combat is an insane feat of skill and physical ability in my opinion. And this wasn't some no-name Jedi mook, this was a powerful Sith Lord.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Darth Malak can casually block hordes of blaster fire with ease.Darth Malak was a powerful, "headstrong warrior".
"Malak gained a reputation as a headstrong warrior who would recklessly charge into danger. Malak's former Masters were well aware of this impetuousness during his days at the training academy on Dantooine."
-Star Wars DatabanksDarth Malak was better with a lightsaber then that of what he was with the Force, and was even "renowned for his combat abilities" (Keep in consideration his force abilities are badass).
"He was renowned for his combat abilities...I also felt that he wasn't as strong at using the Force in other ways as Revan was."
-Drew Karpyshyn; book writerMany credit Darth Malak for the Republic's victory over the Mandalorians due to his "relentless fury" on the battlefield.
"While many credited the Revanchist's military strategies for the campaign success, others were quick to point to Alex's fierce courage and relentless fury on the forefront of every battle as the key part to Republic victory."
Yeah Malaks good and all, but there really isn't much concrete about his skill with the blade.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Armies of Dark Jedi>A Rancor.
A Terentatek is more dangerous than a Rancor. And Revan didn't defeat armies of Dark Jedi when he was a barely trained padawan. And a Terentatek is actually resistant to the Force, not just 'I'm sure those Sith knew resist force'. And Revan had help when he did those feats.
Nox has fought through armies of Jedi and Sith too.
Yeah Malaks good and all, but there really isn't much concrete about his skill with the blade.
A Terentatek is more dangerous than a Rancor.
And Revan didn't defeat armies of Dark Jedi when he was a barely trained padawan.
And a Terentatek is actually resistant to the Force, not just 'I'm sure those Sith knew resist force'.
And Revan had help when he did those feats.
Nox has fought through armies of Jedi and Sith too.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's more impressive then that Sith you keep on rambling about that Nox killed.
The reason I am rambling on about that Sith is because he has the unique ability to sap the Force from others, so Nox had to defeat him without it. Revan beat Malak while completely in command of his power, Nox beat Paladus with only his raw skill.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, here's another I forgot to mention:
"Though only a young man, his skill in battle and prowess with the lightsaber had already earned him renown within the Order."
Also, the main thing about Malak's lightsaber skills is that it is massively implied his skills with a blade were greater then his force prowess, and his "force prowess" made him a powerhouse.
As I said, Malak is obviously a very skilled duelist. The extent of his skill I feel is still rather unknown. Lots of people are very skilled. Its hard to compare Malak against his peers in this regard.
Newguy raises a good point though.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
If it's a bull rancor, that's debatable.
A Terentatek is designed to kill Force users. Its highly resistant to the Force and lightsabers. Even if you think a Rancor is more dangerous overall, a Terentatek offers a greater challenge to a Jedi or Sith.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Actually, Revan at the time of the Star Forge was still not even a confirmed Knight. And the only training he got was those couple days on Dantooine
Pfft, yeah but Revan was clearly drawing on his past skills to relearn them faster than he normally would. Plus he had lots of battle experience by that point. Nox was days into arriving on Korriban when he fought the Terentatek.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan killed two Terentatek's on Korriban as well...your point?
I was wondering when someone would remember that feat. Yeah yeah very impressive. I still think Nox beating one as an acolyte is a better feat of skill though. As good at least.
Also Nox was only armed with a training saber at the time. 😉
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I very much doubt any of his companions were stronger then a Dark Jedi with the exception of Mandalore...who wasn't even Mandalore yet.
Uh, HK-47? Juhani? Jolee?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Video?
Man, you can't expect me to remember specifics, it happens a lot in TOR.
I love how Ant is trying to pass off Revan beating Malak a feat via Drew's email, when in the same email Drew said he saw Malak as the better duelist of the two
The reason I am rambling on about that Sith is because he has the unique ability to sap the Force from others,
Nox beat Paladus with only his raw skill.
As I said, Malak is obviously a very skilled duelist. The extent of his skill I feel is still rather unknown. Lots of people are very skilled. Its hard to compare Malak against his peers in this regard.
Pfft, yeah but Revan was clearly drawing on his past skills to relearn them faster than he normally would.
Plus he had lots of battle experience by that point.
I was wondering when someone would remember that feat.
I still think Nox beating one as an acolyte is a better feat of skill though. As good at least.
HK-47
Juhani? Jolee?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You mean Force Drain? Malak can do that as well.
Not really the same thing. Have you heard of Darth Cognus? She had the ability to diminish the Force in others through her presence. Paladius seems to have a similar ability, although much more potent. Nox couldn't even summon lightning in his presence and Paladius was able to push him around with the Force without Nox being able to resist at all.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
But Paladus's only feat is drain...in which during the KOTOR era, nearly everyone could do it.
That's not true.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He's far more skilled then a featless Paladus.
Yes he is. 🙂
Of course, as I said, Revan had the Force when he fought Malak and could have relied on that to defeat him. Nox had to have beaten Paladius in lightsaber combat. Without being able to enhance himself with the Force.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Of course, but I am still right. 😮💨
True, but context makes it not as comparable as you're making it out to be.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
They weren't really "battles." The most Dark Jedi I believe he killed on one planet was like 6. Now he's going on to face armies of them.
He still had a lot of experience fighting Sith. Plus while on the Star Forge Revan only had to fight small groups of enemies at once, which his team as backup.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
He would be aided by the Dark Side Nexus, which would be amplifying his precognition, speed, strength, and stamina. While Revan, who is canonically on the Light Side quest, would get even more clouded in such areas.
Revan can command both sides of the Force. Plus as a Dark Side abomination its not as if the Terentatek wouldn't also be affected by the dark side. Also, again, Nox was barely trained.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You underestimating the Dark Jedi. They are superior to your average powerful Jedi Knight. And yes, I say powerful, because I very much doubt the Jedi Council sent fodder Jedi for their second best chance (Revan being the first) to defeat Malak. Jolee is rusty and old, and I very much doubt Juhani is that much powerful then an Knight.
No, I believe you underestimate Juhani and Jolee. Jolee wasn't rusty, he was kept in shape by living in the most dangerous area of Kashyyyk. And Juhani was good enough to severely injure her master in training, Force pwn Revans allies and corrupt Dantooine and its wildlife. They're both superior to a few random Jedi mooks.
Not really the same thing. Have you heard of Darth Cognus?
Nox couldn't even summon lightning in his presence and Paladius was able to push him around with the Force without Nox being able to resist at all.
That's not true.
Nox had to have beaten Paladius in lightsaber combat. Without being able to enhance himself with the Force.
Revan only had to fight small groups of enemies at once, which his team as backup.
Revan can command both sides of the Force.
Plus as a Dark Side abomination its not as if the Terentatek wouldn't also be affected by the dark side.
No, I believe you underestimate Juhani and Jolee.
Jolee wasn't rusty, he was kept in shape by living in the most dangerous area of Kashyyyk.
And Juhani was good enough to severely injure her master in training
Force pwn Revans allies and corrupt Dantooine and its wildlife.
I also feel your are forgetting the amp these Dark Jedi are getting on the Star Forge..."Its shadowed cavities were infused with the dark side of Force, endowing it with evil, breathing life."
and "Malak powered the Star Forge with captured Jedi Knights, drawing on their powers to augment the massive input if the Unknown World's star."
And it's stated to be a stronger nexus then Lethon by Bastilia Shan, in which when Darth Bane went on Lethon, he was like blown off his feat by it's sheer power.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Nope. Never heard of her in my 8 years of Star Wars study, nor in my readings of the three Darth Bane novels. [note the sarcasm 😉
Just checking. The ability works in the same way. If you want to see it in action I posted the video at the top of this page.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
So he drained the force out of Nox temporarily? Malak can do that as well. It's basically a different variant of Force drain named "Drain Force."
No, Malak cannot do that. Malak can use Force Drain, he cannot use Paladius' unique ability. As you said, its a different variant. He can no more recreate Paladius' ability than he could Cognus'.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
What part isn't true? His only feat, atleast of what you said, is drain.
And in KOTOR, we got average Dark Jed using Drain (Revan on his quest on Kashyyyk)
It isn't true that nearly everyone can use it in the Kotor era. Nor that its Paladius' only feat.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I see what you mean now...however has Paladius even demonstrated any impressive dueling feats in the first place?
Other than obviously becoming and Sith Lord, he mentions having killed numerous other Sith who tried to steal his cult. No concrete dueling feats though. Not that its diminishes the feat. He had the Force. Nox didn't.
A Sith Lord is almost impossible for a Force-less warrior to defeat in close combat. One of the reasons Uliq Qel'Droma is considered such a skilled duelist is because he actually managed to hold off an enraged Jedi in lightsabers without the use of the Force. Nox actually beat a Sith Lord though.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Some of the "small groups" could tally up to 8 at once. And his two companions, like I said, wasn't "that strong."
8 hardly adds up to "armies" does it?
Canderous, HK, Jolee and Juhani are all strong fighters. Zaalbar is probably also pretty good.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
At this point in time, I don't recall he has mastered that ability. The game made it quite noticeable that drawing on the Dark Side will make you get Dark Side points, yet Revan's quest was canonically all Light Side points.
I'm not so sure about that. Revan shows that Revan was capable of drawing on both sides of the Force. Can you say that he could not do that during the game?
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
...Explain further? Revan fought the Terentateks on a Nexus of Korriban as well...so what's your point? #confused
I was hoping that you wouldn't point that out.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I hated both of there characters greatly, so perhaps.
Woah, what! Jolee was ****ing awesome. He was great, his stories were amazing. And Juhani was the first gay character in Star Wars. Which is cool.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
True, forgot of that point. But his enemies were beasts, in which he was highly proficient as beast control. How often do you think he needed to attack them with a blade, and even so, how impressive even is that? More then probably the Jedi's second best Jedi? Unlikely.
Jolee specialises in the Force over the lightsaber. That he preferred to defeat beasts that way doesn't diminish anything. Also you're forgetting that the first time you meet Jolee he is fighting a group of beasts that are attacking him from all sides and he cuts them all down without taking a scratch.
Plus Jolee did defeat his wife in battle, and his wife would go on to kill many Jedi in combat. Its clear that Jolee is an impressively skilled and powerful Jedi.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Juhani's ugly doe.
Dat furry swag.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
By Force Stun you mean? It should be noted "Revan's allies" were not maxed out at this point, they were "rookies" to put it simply...Juhani was like the second boss in the game.
Uh, I don't think experience points count for shit. Canderous, Carth and Zaalbar are all extremely experienced and skilled warriors though, even before the game starts.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, I don't know how far you wana take this, but Juhani is only a whopping 8 in the d20 score books. That's literately less then the Dark Jedi.
Irrelevant.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I also feel your are forgetting the amp these Dark Jedi are getting on the Star Forge..."Its shadowed cavities were infused with the dark side of Force, endowing it with evil, breathing life."
and "Malak powered the Star Forge with captured Jedi Knights, drawing on their powers to augment the massive input if the Unknown World's star."
And it's stated to be a stronger nexus then Lethon by Bastilia Shan, in which when Darth Bane went on Lethon, he was like blown off his feat by it's sheer power.
Don't care. Juhani and Jolee are still way above a bunch of Sith fodder.
Originally posted by Nephthys
A Sith Lord is almost impossible for a Force-less warrior to defeat in close combat. One of the reasons Uliq Qel'Droma is considered such a skilled duelist is because he actually managed to hold off an enraged Jedi in lightsabers without the use of the Force. Nox actually beat a Sith Lord though.
The difference is Sylvar has combat feats. This Sith Lord has none.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Revan's quest was canonically all Light Side points.
Based on?