Darth Nox vs Revan

Originally posted by Nephthys
Other than obviously becoming and Sith Lord, he mentions having killed numerous other Sith who tried to steal his cult. No concrete dueling feats though. Not that its diminishes the feat. He had the Force. Nox didn't.

A Sith Lord is almost impossible for a Force-less warrior to defeat in close combat. One of the reasons Uliq Qel'Droma is considered such a skilled duelist is because he actually managed to hold off an enraged Jedi in lightsabers without the use of the Force. Nox actually [b]beat a Sith Lord though. [/B]

Another thing to consider is that Paladius points out he could easily crush Nox with the Force but instead opted to fight with lightsabres. Granted this could just be a case of typical Sith ego but I doubt he'd have done that if he didn't have at least reasonably good dueling skills.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Woah, what! Jolee was ****ing awesome. He was great, his stories were amazing. And Juhani was the first gay character in Star Wars. Which is cool.

True on both counts.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Don't care. Juhani and Jolee are still way above a bunch of Sith fodder.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He's defeated numerous other Sith who tried to usurp his cult. Plus in TOR surviving Korriban is a feat in and of itself considering the lore about how merciless the training is.

So some highly ambiguous feats. Even more so than Revan's. Yeah, still not highly impressed.

Plus it is still a far cry from matching the Jeid who clawed Exar's face.

Originally posted by ares834
So if we go with classes as canonical than Revan is a Jedi Knight who focus primarily on lightsaber.

Originally posted by ares834
From the TOR campaign guide where it talks about the Jedi Knight class and mentions several characters that are JKs.

You do realize, don't you, that TOR is set three hundred years after Revan's day? That means TOR classifications don't apply to him.

Three centuries is plenty of time for changes to be made.

Originally posted by ares834
So some highly ambiguous feats. Even more so than Revan's. Yeah, still not highly impressed.

Plus it is still a far cry from matching the Jeid who clawed Exar's face.

I never claimed that Nox was better or equal to Uliq, I'm just saying that its an incredibly impressive feat. Whenever else you see a non-force sensitive beating a Jedi in melee combat, its because that person is HUGELY skilled (or some kind of alien). Jedi and Sith have so many advantages with the Force that to overcome them blade to blade is amazing. I'm struggling to even remember it happening elsewhere tbh.

Just look at Stealth Moose flat out refusing to believe that any Jedi could lose to a non-force sensitive, no matter how skilled. At range, with tons of weaponry and gadgets and heavy armor.

Also, this was hardly Nox at his peak. This is only on Nar Shaddar.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I never claimed that Nox was better or equal to Uliq, I'm just saying that its an incredibly impressive feat. Whenever else you see a non-force sensitive beating a Jedi in melee combat, its because that person is HUGELY skilled (or some kind of alien). Jedi and Sith have so many advantages with the Force that to overcome them blade to blade is amazing. I'm struggling to even remember it happening elsewhere tbh.

Oh, this feat does show that Nox is skilled. However, I really don't see it as particularly amazing. We've seen characters like Jango kill numerous Jedi fodder in melee combat but I wouldn't ever say he was as technically skilled as some of the upper level swordsmen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Just look at Stealth Moose flat out refusing to believe that any Jedi could lose to a non-force sensitive, no matter how skilled. At range, with tons of weaponry and gadgets and heavy armor.

I'd assume he was arguing that had the Jedi or Sith fought smart and liberally with the force they wouldn't lose. And I'd mostly agree.

Malak can use Force Drain, he cannot use Paladius' unique ability

It isn't true that nearly everyone can use it in the Kotor era.

Nor that its Paladius' only feat.

Other than obviously becoming and Sith Lord

he mentions having killed numerous other Sith who tried to steal his cult.

A Sith Lord is almost impossible for a Force-less warrior to defeat in close combat.

8 hardly adds up to "armies" does it?

Canderous, HK

Jolee and Juhani

Zaalbar is probably also pretty good.

Revan shows that Revan was capable of drawing on both sides of the Force. Can you say that he could not do that during the game?

I was hoping that you wouldn't point that out.

Woah, what! Jolee was ****ing awesome. He was great, his stories were amazing.

And Juhani was the first gay character in Star Wars. Which is cool.

Also you're forgetting that the first time you meet Jolee he is fighting a group of beasts that are attacking him from all sides and he cuts them all down without taking a scratch

Plus Jolee did defeat his wife in battle, and his wife would go on to kill many Jedi in combat.

Dat furry swag.

Canderous, Carth and Zaalbar are all extremely experienced and skilled warriors though, even before the game starts.

Irrelevant.

Don't care. Juhani and Jolee are still way above a bunch of Sith fodder.

Jesus, why do you guys keep bringing up the Fetts as if they weren't two of the best Bounty Hunters in the mythos and incredibly skilled?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Jesus, why do you guys keep bringing up the Fetts as if they weren't two of the best Bounty Hunters in the mythos and incredibly skilled?

^Exactly.

Because they aren't top tier swordsmen.

He didn't beat them with a sword.

Originally posted by ares834
Oh, this feat does show that Nox is skilled. However, I really don't see it as particularly amazing. We've seen characters like Jango kill numerous Jedi fodder in melee combat but I wouldn't ever say he was as technically skilled as some of the upper level swordsmen.

Its better than anything Revan has done.

About Jango:

1. Thats Jango Fett. He's really dang skilled (In hand to hand, not swords. Duh).

2. Those were Jedi fodder as you said. We're talking about a Sith Lord. A Sith Lord is a solid tier above Jedi trash.

3. It isn't "characters like Jango". Its Jango. Its that one scene. That is the only time in the mythos where something like that has happened. Its wildly inconsistent with Jedi capabilities and really dumb. The only way to explain it is that those were some really shitty Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The only way to explain it is that those were some really shitty Jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Its better than anything Revan has done.

I wouldn't say it's better than quickly dispatching the Imperial Guard (wouldn't say it's worse either).

Originally posted by Nephthys
About Jango:

1. Thats Jango Fett. He's really dang skilled (In hand to hand, not swords. Duh).

He is. Yet, I still wouldn't put his technical skill near the level of high tier Jedi/Sith.

Originally posted by Nephthys
3. It isn't "characters like Jango". Its Jango. Its that one scene. That is the only time in the mythos where something like that has happened. Its wildly inconsistent with Jedi capabilities and really dumb. The only way to explain it is that those were some really shitty Jedi.

And this could be a really shitty Sith who climbed the ranks merely due to his ability to cut people off the force.

And, no, we've seen "muggles" hold their own against Jedi in close combat many a time. Pre Vizsla held his own against Kenobi, Cad Bane agaisnt Kenobi, Mandalore the Indomitable vs Qel-Droma, that one mandalorian against Jaina Solo, and I'm sure there are many others I can't recall of the top of my head.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I don't really understand what's so special of Paladius' ability. It is draining the force completely from a user, is it not?

Abilities like Cognus' (and probably Paladius'😉 are extremely special. They are not actual Force powers, but unique traits inherent to the Force user. And I'm pretty sure that you can't actually block these kinds of abilities.

Also, Paladius's technique is flat out better than anything Malak can do. If he could, he would have drained the Force from Revan as soon as he saw him, as Paladius did to Nox.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
More then a majority of the Sith can.

No, they cannot.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Enlighten me.

I've said it a few times already, Paladius has beaten multiple other Sith Lords.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Holy shit. This guy > Vitiate then. Wow!

Don't get fresh. A Sith Lord represents a significant opponent to almost any Force-less being. And since you seem not to know, I'll tell you that the Sith training in TOR is the hardest and most mercilessly tough training there is. Sith acolytes are sent of suicide missions, attacked by other students, beasts and war droids all the time and sometimes even just killed for no reason as an example. to survive it means that you are worthy to be Sith.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The manner of the way he killed the Sith, and the strength they possessed are unclear. Is it wrong to make the assumption they are around the level of the Sith Revan slaughtered?

Paladius says that they were more powerful than Nox, though obviously they weren't. That still means they were likely very powerful.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Quite a claim. Yet people like Boba Fett has killed tons of Jedi?

Could you not read the words "in close combat"? Boba Fett used guns and missiles and flamethrowers and a ton of other weaponry. Also he's Boba Mother****ing Fett. He can pull of the near impossible.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
The overall amount of kills were in the armies though. Also don't act like an entire army just spammed Nox at once. I'm sure he killed them one-two at a time.

I see no reason they would all wait their turn. Nox fights through armies on open battle fields a few times.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Disagreed.

Pfft, who cares. You're wrong. I can't believe you think Canderous is better than two Jedi. 🙄

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Amped Sith>A Chewbacca.

Wookiee's can be great warriors. And Zaalbar was a highly trained Wookiee warrior.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yes, for I just said it. It's not called a "light side quest" for nothing.

Pretty sure you're wrong here. You haven't responded to ares about this.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I purposely gave him no clothes and a pistol during his Kashyyk missions so he can suffer. 😈

Lame. >:[

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Define "cool".

Gay representation in Star Wars is cool. estahuh

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I thought when we got engaged, we promised not to lie to eachother?

Jolee suffers no wounds or damage from the fight, that cutscene is different every time you watch it because its using the in-game combat engine. So sometimes it shows him being hit.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Proof for "go on to kill many Jedi in combat"?

YouTube video

2.45

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
None of the three you mentioned besides Canderous are experienced with fighting force sensitives.

I don't even see how it matters. Force Stunning people is an advanced Force power. It doesn't matter if they've fought Force Sensitives, its not like they can resist it through battle experience, lol.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Yet expresses my point.

Nope. RPG mechanics such as that are non-canon.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
For one, Revan would never take Juhani on that mission...her ugliest would make him go suicide. Lets think logically here: Juhani was just redeemed, he's not taking her to like one the strongest Dark Side nexus' in history. And, you continue to say Jolee is above "Sith fodder" who are one, not "sith fodder", and you are basing this off of him killing some animals on Kashyyk, which is not as impressive as taking down probably powerful Jedi Knights.

Juhani and Jolee came with him to the Rakatan temple and fought through the Sith there. You know, on Lehon.

I'm not basing it off that, you said he was rusty and I pointed out that he had to deal with the wildlife and used his lightsaber to do so.

Well Jango's not a swordsman so you can't compare him and the jedi skill for skill with a sword.

But in general combat skill I'm thinking he is far beyond the skill level of virtually any jedi on paper. The reason for this is that the Force gives certain advantages but it doesn't make anyone more skilled technically.

So the way I see it is that a Jedi/Sith that is well regarded for their swordsmanship is with respect to their relatively tiny orders. But with someone like Jango Fett, his skill is highly regarded with respect to the entire galaxy.

So I would expect the most skilled soldiers/bounty hunters/etc. in the galaxy to have far, far, far (^99999999) greater combat skill than the most skilled Jedi and Sith.

It would be like in the real world, if the inhabitants of a city developed superhuman speed and strength overnight. They would be drastically superior MMA fighters than anybody else in the world, and some of their number might have very high skill levels, but in terms of pure skill, the most skilled people from the rest of the world stand out among a far deeper and larger talent pool.

Edit - You translate Jango's combat skill to swordsmanship specifically, and give him a force connection on par with the most skilled jedi/sith of all time, and he most likely destroys them imo.

So you think Jango Fett is more technically skilled than characters like Windu or Yoda...

Originally posted by ares834
I wouldn't say it's better than quickly dispatching the Imperial Guard (wouldn't say it's worse either).

Outspeeding a non-force sensitive through Force speed isn't as impressive as outdueling a Sith Lord without Force Speed.

Originally posted by ares834
He is. Yet, I still wouldn't put his technical skill near the level of high tier Jedi/Sith.

Really? The fact that he can make up for his lack of Force powers through sheer skill and physical ability suggests otherwise to me.

Originally posted by ares834
And this could be a really shitty Sith who climbed the ranks merely due to his ability to cut people off the force.

And, no, we've seen "muggles" hold their own against Jedi in close combat many a time. Pre Vizsla held his own against Kenobi, Cad Bane agaisnt Kenobi, Mandalore the Indomitable vs Qel-Droma, that one mandalorian against Jaina Solo, and I'm sure there are many others I can't recall of the top of my head.

A really shitty Sith who was worshiped for his power and skill by a large cult.

And how many of them actually won those fights? Zero. Apart from that thing with Jaina, which was just Travis-wank and heinously stupid.

I think he is far more skilled (in general combat skill) than the most skilled Force User of all time. He's basically the Star Wars Galaxy's very own Big Boss.

I doubt there have been more than a billion Jedi/Sith in history. Which is like equivalent to the population of a tiny planet. Jango's skills stand out with respect to an entire Galaxy.

When you remove the Force from the equation Jango has infinitely more going for him than Yoda or Mace Windu when it comes to combat acumen.

No. Just.... no.

lol