WBH VS King Thor

Originally posted by Epicurus
Many blows resulted in many worlds getting shattered. Think for once in your lifetime. WBH's feat was shared by a being that was his equal in terms of strength and raw power as well. Lol, the narrative explicitly mentions worlds being shattered in plural. You have to really be dense to ignore a thing laid out as clearly as that feat.

Lawl, still clinging to the dumb notion that a magical indestructible hammer somehow amps Thor's swinging power. First you claimed that he punches using the hammer, now you purport that using the hammer somehow equates to him not using his strength. What crack are you on today?

Lol now I understand. You have no idea of what I'm talking about.
I was arguing strength. I'm saying that Thor can hit harder with the hammer than he can with his fists. Hitting harder means cause more damage.
I'm not saying that Thor hits harder with Mjolnir than a normal adamantium hammer. Just harder than his fists.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor has no feats in the vicinity of KT beheading Destroyer, or destroying adamantium or Caps shield.

Characters power level fluctuate in comics. So beating a character doesn't prove anything in itself. Spider-man beat firelord. That doesn't mean Spidey was hitting with planets of force.

Destroying something without touching it from hundreds of yards away requires astronomical more force than destroying it by hitting it directly. That's common sense and doesn't require calculations.

Hulk is stronger and more durable by feats. Thor likes to melee a lot. I don't see how KT out classes Hulk.

Right.

So Thor, as a brasher, less omniscient incarnation of King Thor, knows that he cannot beat Hulk, and never could - and uses BFR/exotic powers:

Yet a wiser, more mature Thor, with more experience, upon seeing a VASTLY more powerful Hulk (and likely feeling some of the energy that's roiling off him) is going to engage in fisticuffs and close up hand to hammer fighting? This is honestly what you're arguing, h1?

I know you have already admitted with timestop, Thor wins. Why don't you just swallow your pride, and say Thor wins? It's like the JLA/Thanos thread, where you give Superman the benefit of the full capacity rule, and turn him into a speedblitzing monster. If someone came in and said with speed turned off, Thanos stomps, you'd be crying foul and talking about how this was a forum fight, not a comic fight, and characters don't forget their powers etc etc.

H1 argument is all over the place. In one thread he states Superman will beat Thanos by fighting smart and using his speed and in another thread he is saying Thor will engage in fist cuff which would be his downfall. That's why I don't waste any energy on him.

Originally posted by carver9
H1 argument is all over the place. In one thread he states Superman will beat Thanos by fighting smart and using his speed and in another thread he is saying Thor will engage in fist cuff which would be his downfall. That's why I don't waste any energy on him.

Broken record, but a forum wide ignore would be terrific. It'd be like a ghost child who couldn't talk to anyone.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
I just put him on ignore and try and close my mind off when I skim by his quoted posts. I already know what he's arguing about when I see his name, there's no need to read them. And so does everyone else too.

Broken record, but a forum wide ignore would be terrific. It'd be like a ghost child who couldn't talk to anyone.

I proposed a forum wide ignore for H1 yrs ago but everyone ignored it. Oh well...dreams can only take you so far. By the way, you never responded to my post in this thread.

What post?

Originally posted by iceman24567
Thor has feats beyond those just grab a comic or two. Beating a character several times proves alot if it were just once you would have some kind of point. You do realize Thor has done similar in a recent arc? Also you are blowing Hulks feat way out of proportion (whats new) it was a shared feat on top of that it wasn't a strictly strength feat. You choose not to see King Thor outclassing Hulk just obvious ignorance nothing more. Thor wins.

Originally posted by carver9
H1 argument is all over the place. In one thread he states Superman will beat Thanos by fighting smart and using his speed and in another thread he is saying Thor will engage in fist cuff which would be his downfall. That's why I don't waste any energy on him.

Originally posted by carver9
H1 argument is all over the place. In one thread he states Superman will beat Thanos by fighting smart and using his speed and in another thread he is saying Thor will engage in fist cuff which would be his downfall. That's why I don't waste any energy on him.

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor is loves to melee. It's his warrior heart. Otherwise KT would beat Hulk by bfr or something close to it.

As opposed to Superman? Protip: Superman brawls about as much as everyone else, including Thor.

Super speed, heat vision and other powers? He doesn't use them anymore often then Thor uses Mjolnir for something other then hitting. I.e. you're resorting to double standards and bias arguments.

And this is King Thor, not the more brash modern day Thor.

This also touches on the problem I find among Hulk fans. They believe Hulk is way stronger then Thor and yet argue that he will continue to try and fist fight him. Thor likes a challenge, he enjoys a fist fight but he doesn't enjoy getting treated like a punching bag either. They argue that he's above Herald level and then balk at the idea that Thor would start using more exotic attacks against him like he does against Mangog/Destroyer etc.

Why in the hell would Thor approach a fight against World Breaker like he would Savage Hulk? On a forum no less? Thor's stubborn, not retarded.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
As opposed to Superman? Protip: Superman brawls about as much as everyone else, including Thor.

Super speed, heat vision and other powers? He doesn't use them anymore often then Thor uses Mjolnir for something other then hitting. I.e. you're resorting to double standards and bias arguments.

And this is King Thor, not the more brash modern day Thor.

This also touches on the problem I find among Hulk fans. They believe Hulk is way stronger then Thor and yet argue that he will continue to try and fist fight him. Thor likes a challenge, he enjoys a fist fight but he doesn't enjoy getting treated like a punching bag either. They argue that he's above Herald level and then balk at the idea that Thor would start using more exotic attacks against him like he does against Mangog/Destroyer etc.

Why in the hell would Thor approach a fight against World Breaker like he would Savage Hulk? On a forum no less? Thor's stubborn, not retarded.

With that said, I don't really care if Thor doesn't melee. My heart is on what they have shown before they can do here. I would rather him not melee and so i concede to that argument. KT wins by exotic means. I always said that, from the very beginning.

Originally posted by h1a8
a notable poster proved that KT would use melee here, at least to start, by showing us ever encounter kt had.

With that said, I don't really care if Thor doesn't melee. My heart is on what they have shown before they can do here. I would rather him not melee and so i concede to that argument. KT wins by exotic means. I always said that, from the very beginning.

So the last several pages have just been you trolling?

How am I supposed to enjoy having H1's posts on ignore when he's constantly quoted? 🙁

My bad. As punishment I'll read 4 of h1's posts.

Originally posted by h1a8
It's how you beat a character and not that you beat them that proves. Giving Hulk half the feat is still astronomically more than what Thor did. Half of astronomically more is still astronomical. How can I blow something out of proportion when in fact it is true?

Originally posted by h1a8
The planet and moon were cracked. This count as worlds (plural).

Originally posted by h1a8

Lol now I understand.

Originally posted by h1a8

You have no idea of what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by h1a8

I was arguing strength.

Originally posted by h1a8

I'm saying that Thor can hit harder with the hammer than he can with his fists.

Originally posted by h1a8

Hitting harder means cause more damage.

What point are you even trying to make by stating something so dumbfoundingly obvious, even a toddler wouldn't have any problems understanding it?

Originally posted by h1a8

I'm not saying that Thor hits harder with Mjolnir than a normal adamantium hammer. Just harder than his fists.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Thor has straight up beat skyfathers under his own power. No Thors feat and Hulks feat are similar in power. Except it isn't true? Anyways ignored go troll somebody else you are now on Quan level ignore good day

Thank you for ignoring me. I hate debating i.....

Thor wins by using exotic means. If he starts with melee he dies quickly

Originally posted by h1a8
Thor wins

Took you long enough.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

But again, the shockwave being from above and the army being somewhat scattered means the force wasn't just ripping through numerous Mindless Ones to get to another. It means that a lot of the force wasn't being dissipated from previously connecting with another Mindless One. It wasn't going through enough Mindless Ones to just times the feat by the number of beings present. As I said before, this would be the case if they were all lined up in a neat line, but they obviously weren't. Though again, obviously it also was going through some to hit another, so you have some degree of multiplication there, but not nearly on the level of just all of them times the feat. Basically, many many many of the Mindless Ones would have been hit with the same level of attack in the first shot. And that wouldn't split in damage as it's already a shockwave. As I've said before, to get the full measure of the Hulk's attack and your logic down to being positively correct, you've have to focus all of Hulk's attack into a blast, and then fire it at a line of Mindless Ones. But we use what we got, and what we got was a shockwave and some scattering.
As well as the distance it traveled was relatively minor compared to the total distance it did actually travel. But again, this goes back to my planet destroying in that instance being more impressive. As it had to travel way the shit farther and go through way more shit to destroy the planet than it did to destroy the army.

And that's been my point the entire time. It's not to say a more durable character couldn't survive it. That's why I brought up people (not you necessarily as I've stated when I said it) acting like the Mindless Ones' durability stacked. Among other things.
I agree entirely with this paragraph more than you know, and it's basically summing up my entire thoughts on the matter since day zero. 👆

No, in our case, it isn't about durability stacking. But I know you see that that's not the case with others. Not everyone can be us, and you have to realize that when you talk about others in the open like this. Same goes for things that I've said about Umar = Skyfather and the like.
I have my qualms about you blanketing the whole feat over the amount of Mindless Ones present, but I've stated my thoughts on the matter enough.
And yes, Hulk's punches > shockwaves, but that applies to any single part of his feat as well. Which doesn't do much to go against my thinking that the Mindless Ones being destroyed isn't the most impressive thing about that, and isn't the only thing we should be looking at in the feat, it should be looked at as a total, not an isolated incident while only applying use of a statement.

As I've said before of this, I am completely nitpicking. But again, you just need to add the entire feat up, as the Mindless Ones are relatively irrelevant in a fight with King Thor. Is all.

And with that I'm done. You haven't given me the ego needed to try and get a last word in when all we're doing is reiterating things at this juncture (unless this is the last word, then that looks bad on my part). 😂
We could have the same discussion at this point with just quoting things I feel.

Refreshing debate though. Civility is rare in my debates. You and me will have to do this again on another topic, I'll look forward to it. Pretty much you and leo are the only people I actually have fun debating and discussing things with (if this is any indication). I'd say Galan too, but he's as big of prick as me so it quickly turns to veiled hate.

This part is what I believe is key to the argument and so ill just hone in on this. The key distinction that needs to be made is between force per unit mass/volume/area and total force. What im doing is creating a base estimate of the total force. For my logic to work, the mindless ones wouldnt have to be in a line. The only condition necessary is that the shockwave would have to have actually hit all the mnidless ones and destroy them regardless of their spatial arrangement...which it did.

Note that the multiplicative effect doesnt happen only if the shockwave went through one mindless one to hit the other (that would add in an additional multiplicative effect), the multiplicative effect automatically happens because in order to destroy a single mindless one regardless of where they were standing or whether it has dissipated at all, the shockwave would have to contain the minimum amount of force per unit mas/volume needed to destroy it at that point. As you said, many many mindless ones would be getting hit by the same shot. That is spot on! and is exactly why the amount of force has to be multiplied linearly to get a minimum estimate. Say that it takes X amount of force to destroy a mindless one. Then we know that any time a mindless one gets destroyed at least X amount of force has been applied. If the shockwave destroyed ALL the mindless ones then they all had to have been hit with at least X amount of force over the specific areas they were standing. This means it had to have contained at least X amount of force in as many places and over as many units of mass as the mindless ones were. In this case that is X amount of force X as many are needed to ooverwhelm Umar.

The fact that it went through some mindless ones to get to others simply means that at certain points even after it dissipated considerably, the shockwave over that particular unit of mass/volume still contained at least X amount of force needed to destroy the mindless one. In actuality, that gives us another multiplicative effect when trying to estimate the total force contained in the wave as a whole because we would then be saying that even after having dissipated and thus reduced in force per unit mass at point, it still contained at least the X amount of force required to destroy that mindless one. As you pointed out however, the mindless ones were scattered and so the wave didnt necessarily go through them sequentially. Hence determining the size of multiplicative effect is more difficult. This isnt a necessary condition however for the minimum estimate. We can make that with complete certainty by multiplying the base amount of force required to destroy one, by the amount of them that were destroyed.

I do understand your concerns with some people misinterpreting it as durability stacking and things like that and given people's penchant for misinterpretation and downright cognitive dissonance I share those concerns. The point of my argument isnt just to show that hulks punch>shockwave which i think is common sense to even the most rigid (though there was this one time someone argued otherwise but i digress.lol) but rather to show how the mindless one part of the feat strongly indicates that the shockwaves total force was immense. Because that total force was spread out over a distance and multiple beings, whether or not even a very durable character could survive the conflagration would likely depend on where they were standing for instance and the force per unit mass they got hit with....not the total force contained within the shockwave which is what I am focusing on. However if you take the same total force in the shockwave (which is still considerably less then that of hulks actual punch) and focus it all in a point...that same character would likely have no shot at surviving at all. When trying to guage the impressiveness of the shockwave as whole however, its the total force that is important.

And yeah good debate indeed. Im trying to finish up my MBA and so I am rarely on here anymore and it was definitely fun to have a sane discussion devoid of some of the other hilarity that one so often sees. Kudos to you good sir 👆 👆