WBH VS King Thor

Originally posted by Naija boy
Not sure I follow this. Yes Umar doesn't have the feats catalogue of KT. For the most part neither do a bunch of supposedly skyfather level characters. But that was never the comparison I was making as it isn't analogous to the mindless ones situation in which we are attempting to figure out their intended power level as a group in a specific comic as opposed to across the totality of their history.

You might only be using her as a basis to judge WBH's jump up in power, but the issue with her being in this thread is exactly what I stated. She is being compared to King Thor when things such as "Skyfather" are stated, and her impressiveness is being discussed in the open. IE, King Thor = Umar <<<< WBH.

I realize your intention, but you also have to realize that a lot of what I've stated has been about habits specifically in this thread by Carver and the like.

Originally posted by Naija boy
And I honestly cannot agree with valuing previous extraneous showings more than the contextual in comic evidence when attempting to determine the specific intended power level of a character in a particular comic. It devalues writer intent as it gives us the ability to simply disregard whatever means the writer used to communicate that intent despite its far greater relevancy, simply because it isn't the kind of evidence we like or because the characters haven't operated at that level consistently before. In principle that opens the door for all manner of whimisical and circular reasoning.

Mind you actually, in this case I don't think the above is actually what's going on. As you have pointed out....the mindless ones portrayal as a group ( which is all I ever referenced) in HOTM didn't really contradict any of their previous individual showings anyhow and is fairly consistent with their previous portrayals as an extremely overwhelming force in large numbers. My point was never about their individual strength but rather the overwhelming nature of the totality of their force and how destroying all of them when Umar couldn't even come close was particularly impressive. The inevitably overwhelming nature of their force in sufficient numbers is something that has been consistent irrespective of their vastly fluctuating individual levels. So on this we should actually be on the same page.

While I'd agree with you in some cases, this case is not one of them. The Mindless Ones simply did nothing of note to suddenly take their Hulk showing in a bubble and make everything else irrelevant.
I could see if Pak suddenly had one of them tank planet destroyers, or punch out a continent, but all we have is a statement.

I agree. However, how durable they are still has a lot of relevancy to their numbers. And I feel you're only looking at the numbers game when durability is just as important. Which is why I asked things involving Spider-Man and such.

Originally posted by Naija boy
Ok so initially I thought that you were arguing against the claim the the mindless ones in totality were an extremely powerful force by referencing their previous lesser showings both individually and in smaller groups. My counterclaim therefore brought up the contextual evidence that in this scenario previous showings were of no relevance as the writer specifically mentioned how the totality of their force this time was enough to overwhelm Umar in her own realm. Hence the claim contextual evidence in this case holds far more weight and relevance to this specific incident than extraneous showings. However what I now understand you to be saying is that the statement HOTM doesn't contradict previous showings at all as they have always been overwhelming forces. I actually agree wholeheartedly with this as the whole point of my claim from the get go was that it was impressive because it was the totality of the mindless ones....not because I assigned some individual durability level to each of them. There individual durability level in that instance is indeterminable but not even pertinent to my argument.

And no I don't think a planet destroying attack is above that at all....specifically because we know that Umar in her own realm did not have the output to destroy them. Furthermore, as you said this does not even contradict anything in their history as in their fullness both Umar and Dormammu have been unable to completely annihilate them in the same vein Hulk did. Since we are getting into hypotheticals, I am positive this was more due to inability than due to the inconvenience ( the mindless ones dimension is annexed to but separated omthe Dark Dimension and full of nothing but mindless beasts if she could...Umar would have just popped over there and disintegrated them all with there being little danger or damage to the rest of her realm). Even in the circumstances she was in when they got released, she wouldn't have had to release a blast that's encompassed the whole planet as the mindless ones as far as we knew only occupied a portion and hadn't spread across the entire planet yet...not to mention that on a planet which Umar admitted had no innocents and was full of damned souls I highly doubt Umar would care about having to whatever it took for her own survival. All the indicators both contextual and historical point to it being a case of inability not inconvenience.

Still, I can't agree that durability isn't important. Maybe not to your logic (which I'll get to), but it is important to determine how impressive a thousand times the force needed to destroy one as going by your logic. Yes, it sounds impressive, but that's basically just throwing it out in a hallway and raising your eyebrows repeatedly while others look on.
Like I jokingly pointed out before, you could conceivably call it however many times the amount of Thing's punch. Which isn't a knock on the feat (though you'll probably think so), but it gives it an actual basis as opposed to just doing sexy eyes at it. Say we just ignore the existence of the rest of the feat happening. How much force can you equate to that showing without purely resorting to a numbers game? You'd have to look at previous showings, no? Otherwise you're again (and not that you agree with it anymore) just judging the impressiveness of the feat based on numbers and a blank slate of a character. Which might as well make them the most deadly army in the universe tier of character.
Among other things, I hope you understand my point in its entirety now. Their individual durability isn't something to merely ignore. It's something to add in and figure out why this base is as impressive, or not as impressive as previously thought. We can't figure out everything by numbers.

An all encompassing planetary blast vs a relatively tiny area of people that don't have planetary durability... I'd say the blast should take them out everytime. Hell, I'd say the planet just exploding should take them out everytime.

See, I'm just seeing the fight different is all. I feel if she were to fight them, it'd be more one on one as opposed to one vs a group. And that would be very unwise for a fight against an army.
But Umar actually cared about her planet. The innocents part is only relevant to Hulk. Hell, she got pissed when Foom destroyed her castle.
I feel that if she were to win against such large numbers (if she could), that she would have to employ a lot of collateral damage in such an occasion. Is the collateral damage needed to destroy that size of an army equal to a planetary destroying attack? Maybe not. However, since that's the only thing we have to base it on, we can assume it's still a lot. Would a relatively calm comic character be willing to use that type of force on her kingdom? I have my doubts. Which would instantly hinder her in such an occasion.
The Hulk however, wasn't hindered in such an occasion since again, everyone was basically a prick on the planet. Which left him open to just jam his dick in whatever hole he wanted to.

None of this however proves she could do it, though. I'll admit that's more of thinking she should be able to do it taking into account the planetary destruction level of the feat. And a little to do with a mere shockwave being above her total power output... but I digress...
Anyway, IMO, she either fires a planetary level destroying attack in a focused beam, or she fires it in a large area. And considering it's a planetary destroying attack, it's kind of hard to see that not do a ton of damage to the planet.
That is, if I'm correct in thinking she could possibly defeat the army. This would be the reason why she couldn't in such a scenario. Hypotheticals like you said.

Originally posted by Naija boy
The mindless ones massive sustained attack, and the hulks huge shockwave are different kind of outputs though so obviously if trying to compare them directly the scenarios will be unique. Nonetheless there is still no contradiction created by the fact that Umar survived hulks attack but couldn't survive the mindless ones sustained barrage and thus there is no way to denigrate that aspect of the hulks feat using that. Even attempting to do so is is quite nitpicky.

Now to answer your question, the reason why destroying an army of mindless ones in the shockwave when Umar couldnt is extremely impressive is because it gives us an idea of the amount of total force released. The total force released in the shockwave was at minimum....the amount of force needed to destroy one mindless one x the huge amount of mindless ones necessary to kill Umar in her own dimension ( this is without adding all the other stuff). Now this force was spread out over a distance as it was contained in the shockwave. Based on that information alone could a mindless one a 1000x more durable survive the shockwave? Possibly depending on how much force had dissipated or how many units of mass the force had acted upon prior to getting to that mindless one. The key here though is that it gives us an idea of the total force hulk was able to generate. So then question would be, can a mindless one a thousand times more durable survive getting hit with the total force generated if focused in one area like say a punch?...the answer to that is not even close. That's why in and of itself that part of the feat is very impressive as it has tremendous implications on the total amount of force Hulk can generate...and is thus extremely relevant to determining the power his punches

Well, ignoring my previous logic (in this series of posts anyway) in answering this, I'll bite.
But as I said before, the shockwave reached the rest of the planet. The area it traveled to hit the Mindless Ones was extremely minor in comparison. They were basically ground zero, or near ground zero in such an attack, so the distance it traveled isn't that big of a factor. What is possible miles to a planet?
You answered my question with the 1000x Mindless One possibly surviving it though. Which means even you question how much force is applied in such a scenario.
And I have no issue with all the force applied in one tiny area being more impressive. As I've previously stated, the shockwave would have been weaker than the actual punch, as well as the shockwave would have been weaker than a focused blast or punch. Still though, that's not the issue at hand, as we're discussing the shockwave and the actual feat in question.

Obviously if Hulk just punched something it'd do more damage than the backlash of Hulk punching something. I've no issues with that. However, you're discussing the shockwave in this sort of occasion. If we're determining the amount of force his shockwave generated based on the number of dooderinos present, then we should also factor in the shockwave in such a scenario as 1000 stacked Mindless Ones in one body no? I've no issue with his punch destroying it, but the more relevant one in this scenario is his shockwave possibly not doing it. And that answers my question more than you know.

Originally posted by Naija boy
You misunderstand me, it's not that shockwave that is getting a boost in power nor is the implication that a mindless ones 1000 times more durable wouldn't survive the shockwave (it almost certainly wouldn't but that can be determined based on other factors). The point is that destroying the totality of the mindless ones when Umar couldn't gives us a great comparative idea of the total amount of force Hulk generated.

At minimum to destroy that many mindless ones the total force contained in the shockwave would have to be the force needed to destroy one mindless one x the amount of them needed to overwhelm Umar in her own realm. The reason is that the total force of the shockwave would become less and less with each mindless one it acted on but there would still have to be enough force per unit mass at minimum to be capable of destroying each of those mindless ones. To have the exact same effect acting on multiple objects the force will have to be multiplied linearly . If they were scattered and it was from above,that's even better for hulk because it means the force in the shockwave would have travel some distance....dissipate and then still be able to destroy said mindless ones.

Now notice I'm talking in terms of total force and force per unit mass/volume. Just because the total force needed to be so tremendous does not mean that a much more durable character wouldn't survive the shockwave. Because the total force was so spread out and acting over various units of mass/volume, said character would only need to be able to survive the amount force per unit mass acting on him or her ( which was still a huge amount given that Armageddon and amped Foom were also disintegrated). However when that total force is then focused in a punch for instance......it's a whole nother story.

So no this isn't about durability stacking for each mindless ones or each mindless one being uber durable but rather the huge number of units of mass the force was acting on giving us a good idea of how much total force hulk was able to generate in that shockwave and subsequently how potent his actual punches would be (his punches would actually bend delivering force considerably considerably above the total force contained in the shockwave)

When you then add in the rest of the feat....it just makes it all the more astonishing and demonstrates the type of physical specimen that Pak intended for WBH to be. Nonetheless I don't think it's so cut and dry, but if KT makes the mistake of getting to up close and personal...he will be facing an uphill battle given not just WBH growing strength and durability, but also given the extent to which his Hf would be working at that level as well

But that's mostly just using the statement and the feat. That doesn't actually account for what we've discussed in such a scenario. It's not that I don't understand you, it's that at this point in time, we've delved much deeper into merely the cover of Hulk doing something Umar couldn't.

But again, the shockwave being from above and the army being somewhat scattered means the force wasn't just ripping through numerous Mindless Ones to get to another. It means that a lot of the force wasn't being dissipated from previously connecting with another Mindless One. It wasn't going through enough Mindless Ones to just times the feat by the number of beings present. As I said before, this would be the case if they were all lined up in a neat line, but they obviously weren't. Though again, obviously it also was going through some to hit another, so you have some degree of multiplication there, but not nearly on the level of just all of them times the feat. Basically, many many many of the Mindless Ones would have been hit with the same level of attack in the first shot. And that wouldn't split in damage as it's already a shockwave. As I've said before, to get the full measure of the Hulk's attack and your logic down to being positively correct, you've have to focus all of Hulk's attack into a blast, and then fire it at a line of Mindless Ones. But we use what we got, and what we got was a shockwave and some scattering.
As well as the distance it traveled was relatively minor compared to the total distance it did actually travel. But again, this goes back to my planet destroying in that instance being more impressive. As it had to travel way the shit farther and go through way more shit to destroy the planet than it did to destroy the army.

And that's been my point the entire time. It's not to say a more durable character couldn't survive it. That's why I brought up people (not you necessarily as I've stated when I said it) acting like the Mindless Ones' durability stacked. Among other things.
I agree entirely with this paragraph more than you know, and it's basically summing up my entire thoughts on the matter since day zero. 👆

No, in our case, it isn't about durability stacking. But I know you see that that's not the case with others. Not everyone can be us, and you have to realize that when you talk about others in the open like this. Same goes for things that I've said about Umar = Skyfather and the like.
I have my qualms about you blanketing the whole feat over the amount of Mindless Ones present, but I've stated my thoughts on the matter enough.
And yes, Hulk's punches > shockwaves, but that applies to any single part of his feat as well. Which doesn't do much to go against my thinking that the Mindless Ones being destroyed isn't the most impressive thing about that, and isn't the only thing we should be looking at in the feat, it should be looked at as a total, not an isolated incident while only applying use of a statement.

As I've said before of this, I am completely nitpicking. But again, you just need to add the entire feat up, as the Mindless Ones are relatively irrelevant in a fight with King Thor. Is all.

And with that I'm done. You haven't given me the ego needed to try and get a last word in when all we're doing is reiterating things at this juncture (unless this is the last word, then that looks bad on my part). 😂
We could have the same discussion at this point with just quoting things I feel.

Refreshing debate though. Civility is rare in my debates. You and me will have to do this again on another topic, I'll look forward to it. Pretty much you and leo are the only people I actually have fun debating and discussing things with (if this is any indication). I'd say Galan too, but he's as big of prick as me so it quickly turns to veiled hate.

Originally posted by Epicurus
1. And you did a piss-poor job of it, as I showcased previously.

2. Except for Cap's extensive history of taking the fight to class 100s and then some. Even in this case, he only got the chance to do what he did because Thor's son was being held hostage, thereby preventing the latter from striking back.

3. Complete and utter lie. In the very same panel where the amulet comes off, he uses his eyebeams to disintegrate Cap's shield and Cap himself.

You are one to talk, considering you've never read a single comic like ever, and probably won't do it even if your life depended on it.

4. That's not the same thing as saying that Mjolnir amps his striking/swinging power. Do you even common sense, muh bru?

😂 at you bringing up your dumb pseudoscience into a comic debate all over again.

None of them supports the fact that Mjolnir amps his swinging strength by a massive scale. LOL.

5. Prove that it wasn't far off, even though the battle was taking place across lightyears and ftl travel was used by both Current Thor and Gorr as if it was a walk in the park.

You have yet to prove a single claim with actual on-panel fact as opposed to spewing the same rubbish for which you are lampooned and harried on a constant basis in this forum.

1. Irrelevant as my intentions were (or are now) clear since I purposely mentioned Bran's name.

2. You misread my post. I said I doubt Cap ever affected a HIGH class 100 (not a general class 100) with his FISTS OR FEET (not counting the shield).

3. I stand corrected.

4. If a tool is used to strike harder than natural strength then it AMPS one's natural striking power. Thus we must take away from the feat to prove strength. Thor's feats with Mjolnir shits on his feats with his fists in a major way.

5. Look at book 9 page 14. It shows Thor and Gorr on a planet before Thor first began to strike Gorr. Thor then continuously struck Gorr while they were slightly above the planet. You see the a small portion of the planet cracking and the moon in the distance (before it got cracked) while they are slightly above the planet striking each other. In the next panel, you see Thor turn around and see that same moon that was in the distance cracked and realizes that it is inhabited.

Captain America struck Thor who had the Odin Force blocked, had just gone h2h and killed Hulk and Thing. He also was completely unhurt and did not resist because Balder had his son hostage.

There are so many qualifiers go that scene that I have no idea why it is relevant here.

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Irrelevant as my intentions were (or are now) clear since I purposely mentioned Bran's name.

2. You misread my post. I said I doubt Cap ever affected a HIGH class 100 (not a general class 100) with his FISTS OR FEET (not counting the shield).

3. I stand corrected.

4. If a tool is used to strike harder than natural strength then it AMPS one's natural striking power. Thus we must take away from the feat to prove strength. Thor's feats with Mjolnir shits on his feats with his fists in a major way.

5. Look at book 9 page 14. It shows Thor and Gorr on a planet before Thor first began to strike Gorr. Thor then continuously struck Gorr while they were slightly above the planet. You see the a small portion of the planet cracking and the moon in the distance (before it got cracked) while they are slightly above the planet striking each other. In the next panel, you see Thor turn around and see that same moon that was in the distance cracked and realizes that it is inhabited.

Steve has affected Class 100s without his shield btw.

Thor turned around and realized that it wasn't some dead moon but actually an inhabited world/planet whatever. Why do you assume he was wrong about the inhabited part but not the moon bit? Never understood that, it even has a molten core or whatever apparently.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Oh, I'm not saying you're saying she's comparable to King Thor. I'm saying the whole reason she was brought up originally in really any thread involving WBH is to try and paint her as a legitimate Skyfather character.

You might only be using her as a basis to judge WBH's jump up in power, but the issue with her being in this thread is exactly what I stated. She is being compared to King Thor when things such as "Skyfather" are stated, and her impressiveness is being discussed in the open. IE, King Thor = Umar <<<< WBH.

I realize your intention, but you also have to realize that a lot of what I've stated has been about habits specifically in this thread by Carver and the like.

While I'd agree with you in some cases, this case is not one of them. The Mindless Ones simply did nothing of note to suddenly take their Hulk showing in a bubble and make everything else irrelevant.
I could see if Pak suddenly had one of them tank planet destroyers, or punch out a continent, but all we have is a statement.

I agree. However, how durable they are still has a lot of relevancy to their numbers. And I feel you're only looking at the numbers game when durability is just as important. Which is why I asked things involving Spider-Man and such.

A series of misunderstandings I feel.

Still, I can't agree that durability isn't important. Maybe not to your logic (which I'll get to), but it is important to determine how impressive a thousand times the force needed to destroy one as going by your logic. Yes, it sounds impressive, but that's basically just throwing it out in a hallway and raising your eyebrows repeatedly while others look on.
Like I jokingly pointed out before, you could conceivably call it however many times the amount of Thing's punch. Which isn't a knock on the feat (though you'll probably think so), but it gives it an actual basis as opposed to just doing sexy eyes at it. Say we just ignore the existence of the rest of the feat happening. How much force can you equate to that showing without purely resorting to a numbers game? You'd have to look at previous showings, no? Otherwise you're again (and not that you agree with it anymore) just judging the impressiveness of the feat based on numbers and a blank slate of a character. Which might as well make them the most deadly army in the universe tier of character.
Among other things, I hope you understand my point in its entirety now. Their individual durability isn't something to merely ignore. It's something to add in and figure out why this base is as impressive, or not as impressive as previously thought. We can't figure out everything by numbers.

An all encompassing planetary blast vs a relatively tiny area of people that don't have planetary durability... I'd say the blast should take them out everytime. Hell, I'd say the planet just exploding should take them out everytime.

See, I'm just seeing the fight different is all. I feel if she were to fight them, it'd be more one on one as opposed to one vs a group. And that would be very unwise for a fight against an army.
But Umar actually cared about her planet. The innocents part is only relevant to Hulk. Hell, she got pissed when Foom destroyed her castle.
I feel that if she were to win against such large numbers (if she could), that she would have to employ a lot of collateral damage in such an occasion. Is the collateral damage needed to destroy that size of an army equal to a planetary destroying attack? Maybe not. However, since that's the only thing we have to base it on, we can assume it's still a lot. Would a relatively calm comic character be willing to use that type of force on her kingdom? I have my doubts. Which would instantly hinder her in such an occasion.
The Hulk however, wasn't hindered in such an occasion since again, everyone was basically a prick on the planet. Which left him open to just jam his dick in whatever hole he wanted to.

None of this however proves she could do it, though. I'll admit that's more of thinking she should be able to do it taking into account the planetary destruction level of the feat. And a little to do with a mere shockwave being above her total power output... but I digress...
Anyway, IMO, she either fires a planetary level destroying attack in a focused beam, or she fires it in a large area. And considering it's a planetary destroying attack, it's kind of hard to see that not do a ton of damage to the planet.
That is, if I'm correct in thinking she could possibly defeat the army. This would be the reason why she couldn't in such a scenario. Hypotheticals like you said.

Statements can erase a character's low or high showings if that character has had the opposite showings. Mindless HAS HAD very high showings and thus the reason why there power level is variable. Thus the context is very important for us to determine which power level they were operating at in a given circumstance. I can see if they had ALL low showings and NO high ones that support the statement or writer's intention. But that's not the case. You simply cannot devalue the writer's intention in favor of what you saw in the past.

Also, the shockwave could destroy a being 1000x more durable provided it was concentrated only on that being. In other words, the 1000x being could survive the original shockwave since it was spread out, but not a concentrated one in a small area (same amount of power just in a smaller area).

Umar has feats to suggest she is in the ballpark of KT in terms of power output. She casually is able to summon a score of planets worth of force (casually implies a small portion of her power). This is far beyond Thanos power output and thus skyfather level. Her forcefield was powerful enough to shield her from Hulk's attack. KT has no feats of power output beyond a score planets of force. He doesn't get Odin's feats since we know it takes the know how to use a power.

KT's best feats of power output was destroying Cap's shield and using a plot device weapon to destroy Desak in the Destroyer.

Neither of these feats are beyond a score of planets in power. If you disagree then kindly show feats of durability that puts Cap's shield and Destroyer's armor along with Desak's durability over resisting scores of planetary force or more. I will happily concede then.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Steve has affected Class 100s without his shield btw.

Thor turned around and realized that it wasn't some dead moon but actually an inhabited world/planet whatever. Why do you assume he was wrong about the inhabited part but not the moon bit? Never understood that, it even has a molten core or whatever apparently.

LOL, Thor said "moon". He thought it was a moon. If it was a planet then it was a small one for him to think moon and not planet. Well the writer wrote "moon" for a reason. Many beings do actually live or lived on moons in comics. Some moons have atmospheres (like Titan-The moon of Saturn). Also a "world" can refer to planet or moon in light of habitation.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Steve has affected Class 100s without his shield btw.

Thor turned around and realized that it wasn't some dead moon but actually an inhabited world/planet whatever. Why do you assume he was wrong about the inhabited part but not the moon bit? Never understood that, it even has a molten core or whatever apparently.

You didn't see the CAPS lock on some key words I used.
1. High Class 100 (not low or average class 100)
This refers to characters like Superman, WWH, high end Sentry, Gladiator, etc.

2. Many moons have active cores (even in our solar system such as Titan) with volcano activity. He judged based off size as was the writer's intention.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

And with that I'm done. You haven't given me the ego needed to try and get a last word in when all we're doing is reiterating things at this juncture (unless this is the last word, then that looks bad on my part). 😂
We could have the same discussion at this point with just quoting things I feel.

Refreshing debate though. Civility is rare in my debates. You and me will have to do this again on another topic, I'll look forward to it. Pretty much you and leo are the only people I actually have fun debating and discussing things with (if this is any indication). I'd say Galan too, but he's as big of prick as me so it quickly turns to veiled hate.

Going to have to shelve my popcorn now..

Where's ODG when you need him?

Originally posted by h1a8
LOL, Thor said "moon". He thought it was a moon. If it was a planet then it was a small one for him to think moon and not planet. Well the writer wrote "moon" for a reason. Many beings do actually live or lived on moons in comics. Some moons have atmospheres (like Titan-The moon of Saturn). Also a "world" can refer to planet or moon in light of habitation.

Exactly. He said that it wasn't just some uninhabited moon. What makes you think only the first part of the statement was intended for correction?

That's the point he was so busy with Gorrr he was not paying any attention to anything else.

That's some twisting shit. I might as well argue that it was an Earth sized moon then if we clearly ignore him referring to it as a world.

Not to mention it even has a molten core or whatever apparently as seen as its about to be destroyed. So it has a core reflective of a certain size, is inhabited and was referred to as a world but we'll just ignore that in favor of an earlier statement meant to indicate ignorance?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Exactly. He said that it wasn't just some uninhabited moon. What makes you think only the first part of the statement was intended for correction?

That's the point he was so busy with Gorrr he was not paying any attention to anything else.

That's some twisting shit. I might as well argue that it was an Earth sized moon then if we clearly ignore him referring to it as a world.

Not to mention it even has a molten core or whatever apparently as seen as its about to be destroyed. So it has a core reflective of solid planets like Earth, is inhabited and was referred to as a world but we'll just ignore that in favor of an earlier statement meant to indicate it ignorance?

Many moons have active cores (even in our solar system such as Titan) with volcano activity. He judged based off size as was the writer's intention.

Originally posted by h1a8
Many moons have active cores (even in our solar system such as Titan) with volcano activity. He judged based off size as was the writer's intention.

Even our moon has a partial molten core but there is a noticeable difference between that and the eruptions that we saw as the planet was broken. Also Titan is the only moon in our system with anything more then a trace atmosphere.

Again why are you assuming that the moon part was correct and not the Thor was wrong of thinking of it as a moon in the first place? I'm on my phone so I don't have much interest debating this much further.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Even our moon has a partial molten core but there is a noticeable difference between that and the eruptions that we saw as the planet was broken. Also Titan is the only moon in our system with anything more then a trace atmosphere.

Again why are you assuming that the moon part was correct and not the Thor was wrong of thinking of it as a moon in the first place? I'm on my phone so I don't have much interest debating this much further.

Because the writer wrote "moon" and not "planet". The object looked like a moon (without Thor even saying it). Planets can be the size of moons anyway. Look at Mercury. It was a moon because it was orbiting the planet they were on.

We only should assume things the writer is purposely giving us. Anything outside of that is called "making stuff up". Thor's full attention was on the moon when he said, "That's no empty moon." This implies that it was a inhabited moon.

Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Where's ODG when you need him?

I ran him off!

The House of El rules!

Originally posted by janus77
WBH wins this.
Hulk easily trumped Umar in her own dimension and, by easily I mean that he wasn't even exerting himself.

Unlike KT, Hulk has never been properly tested, his feats as stupendous as they are, represent just the minimal impact of his punches.

He's demonstrated to be atleast as powerful as one-half of the IB, to be immune to time-freeze/stop and to be capable of punching through time.

Simply put, WBH/Hulk has the better on-panel feats and those aren't even indicative of him trying very hard. KT loses this.

I read the World Breaker Hulk comic.
When did he show that he was immune to time-freeze/stop and also punching through time? When did I miss here? It's been awhile since I read it though.

KT would beat the living hell out Hulk end of story

Originally posted by h1a8
1. Irrelevant as my intentions were (or are now) clear since I purposely mentioned Bran's name.

Originally posted by h1a8

2. You misread my post.

Originally posted by h1a8
I said I doubt Cap ever affected a HIGH class 100 (not a general class 100) with his FISTS OR FEET (not counting the shield).

Originally posted by h1a8

3. I stand corrected.

Originally posted by h1a8

4. If a tool is used to strike harder than natural strength then it AMPS one's natural striking power. Thus we must take away from the feat to prove strength. Thor's feats with Mjolnir shits on his feats with his fists in a major way.

Originally posted by h1a8

5. Look at book 9 page 14. It shows Thor and Gorr on a planet before Thor first began to strike Gorr. Thor then continuously struck Gorr while they were slightly above the planet. You see the a small portion of the planet cracking and the moon in the distance (before it got cracked) while they are slightly above the planet striking each other. In the next panel, you see Thor turn around and see that same moon that was in the distance cracked and realizes that it is inhabited.

It was referred to as a world in the very next page:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123396/3733043-thorsavesaworld.png

In fact what Thor actually says is "that's no empty moon":
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123396/3733079-worldnotmoon.jpg
Which in itself implies yet another instance of you horribly skewering context as part of your terrible attempt to copy-cat Bran's argumentation style.

And it was almost on the verge of collapse when Thor saved it. On average, inhabited planetoids in alien sci-fi are usually always represented as roughly Earth-sized worlds. Do you not know such a basic facet of fiction in general?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Captain America struck Thor who had the Odin Force blocked, had just gone h2h and killed Hulk and Thing. He also was completely unhurt and did not resist because Balder had his son hostage.

There are so many qualifiers go that scene that I have no idea why it is relevant here.

Originally posted by Epicurus

1. It's logically impossible to misread a lie as blatant as this:
"I doubt Cap has affected any high class 100 with his feet and fists ever"

Yep, except the times when he has affected high class 100s with his fists alone. Though not sure what one even means by the term "high class hundred". You might as well start claiming that you are a high class ape by that line of thought.

2. Lol, so you're basically saying that when a blacksmith hammers his iron, his ability to forcefully swing said hammer gets amped? What sort of bullsh1t argument is this? Or another case of you pseudoscience where you randomly spew garbage like "WBH is billions of times more powerful than RKT", huh?

3. In the very same panels, it's also literally mentioned that their struggle is causing nearby worlds to shatter. That moon was an inhabited colony ffs.

It was referred to as a world in the very next page:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123396/3733043-thorsavesaworld.png

In fact what Thor actually says is "that's no empty moon":
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/123396/3733079-worldnotmoon.jpg
Which in itself implies yet another instance of you horribly skewering context as part of your terrible attempt to copy-cat Bran's argumentation style.

And it was almost on the verge of collapse when Thor saved it. On average, inhabited planetoids in alien sci-fi are usually always represented as roughly Earth-sized worlds. Do you not know such a basic facet of fiction in general?

1. How can saying "I doubt" be a lie? That's impossible. Also you never proved that Cap has affected very high class 100s with his feet and fists. A class 100 is not necessarily a High Class 100.

2. Hitting something with a big ass hammer does far more damage than hitting it with one's fists. This is common sense.

3. It was a moon because that's what the writer wrote. Worlds can be moons, planets, stars, etc. Thor thought it was an empty moon. But rather it was a non empty moon. Moons in comics are inhabited (like Titan of Saturn).
We go by writer's intentions here. If the writer wanted it to be clearly a planet then he would have wrote "planet" instead of "moon"