Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Kun has far better saber feats than Yoda or Luke. Namely, defeating a 600 year old battlemaster while merely a padawan, stalemating Ulic (who while cut off from the force can compete with notable Jedi in lightsaber dueling), not to mention inventing his own form (that was stated to be an improvement over the existing forms).Exar Kun is easily the best lightsaber practitioner out of anybody in this thread.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Really?Also I'd give Kun the edge over Revan.
That's what some action figure description states. Malak has some chops. I am on the fence about Revan vs. Kun, on one hand KOTOR heavily implies Revan and Malak are not on the level of Kun...on the other hand Revan post KOTOR has proven to be very formidable.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Hmm, I'm nt sure how much I rate action figure descriptions.I give it to Kun becuase I a) think he's a better duelist and b) think that even though Revan's Tutaminis is great Kun's amulet blasts are overwhelming.
Eh how great of a duelist can you really be with Niman? Considering they are both Niman users I think it'll come down to who is better at utilizing force powers in the midst of Niman. I think Revan can deflect Kun's blasts.
Originally posted by Astor Ebligis
Kun has far better saber feats than Yoda or Luke. Namely, defeating a 600 year old battlemaster while merely a padawan, stalemating Ulic (who while cut off from the force can compete with notable Jedi in lightsaber dueling), not to mention inventing his own form (that was stated to be an improvement over the existing forms).Exar Kun is easily the best lightsaber practitioner out of anybody in this thread.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh how great of a duelist can you really be with Niman? Considering they are both Niman users I think it'll come down to who is better at utilizing force powers in the midst of Niman. I think Revan can deflect Kun's blasts.
To be fair, Kun is an absolute beast with the lightsaber, and is only stalemated by Ulic, which is not a bad thing. There's no one in the era better than either.
Originally posted by ares834
As good as you anyone else.
Yeah, tell that to the 200 dead Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
To be fair, Kun is an absolute beast with the lightsaber, and is only stalemated by Ulic, which is not a bad thing. There's no one in the era better than either.
Which is kind of why I thought he'd be something of a Juyo master...Niman is the least martial of the forms.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah, tell that to the 200 dead Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis.
You're point? The idea that someone using Niman is inferior to a user using a different form solely due the their use of the form is ridiculous. What maters far more than what form they use is to what level they mastered it.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah, tell that to the 200 dead Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis.Which is kind of why I thought he'd be something of a Juyo master...Niman is the least martial of the forms.
Well, Niman base level is kinda meh. It's meant to be a crash course on all the forms just to get by, and is desired by the peaceful majority of PT Jedi, who haven't fought a Sith in a thousand years. Shatterpoint kind of talks about this from Mace's POV, as most of the victims of AotC were Niman users of questionable value.
That being said, a master level Niman literally knows every style but Makashi, giving the particularly talented and smart ones a large well to draw on and familiarity with most. Creativity and raw power can change it up too.
I always thought the idea that Niman was a pre-req for dual wielding or related to it was an EU snafu, but it perpetuated anyways.
EDIT: The idea that Exar Kun, Mr. Super Competitive and Headstrong, would use Niman kind of boggles the mind and might be a brain bug from Niman's dual wielding snafu.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
[B]Well, Niman base level is kinda meh. It's meant to be a crash course on all the forms just to get by, and is desired by the peaceful majority of PT Jedi, who haven't fought a Sith in a thousand years. Shatterpoint kind of talks about this from Mace's POV, as most of the victims of AotC were Niman users of questionable value.
I mean I doubt any of them were close to Kun, but the fact that every Niman user out of some 200 Jedi died at Geonosis is particularly telling about the form's efficiency.
"To compensate for the relaxed focus on bladework, Form VI encourages integrating Force powers into combat."
That being said, a master level Niman literally knows every style but Makashi, giving the particularly talented and smart ones a large well to draw on and familiarity with most. Creativity and raw power can change it up too.
That's true, but blademasters like Cin Draalig, Mace Windu, Yoda were Masters of all 7 forms, and even Dooku had enough knowledge and mastery of the 7 forms to teach Grievous well enough to kill Masters of said form.
I always thought the idea that Niman was a pre-req for dual wielding or related to it was an EU snafu, but it perpetuated anyways.
Yeah agreed.
EDIT: The idea that Exar Kun, Mr. Super Competitive and Headstrong, would use Niman kind of boggles the mind and might be a brain bug from Niman's dual wielding snafu.
Very true. Then again this is the same Universe that has Coleman Trebor be a goddamned Soresu user.
I dunno I am not denying Exar Kun was perhaps the Master of Niman ever, but I just don't see a Master of Niman being superior to Luke and Yoda who are masters of multiple forms.
And I think you're making far too much of a deal about lightsaber forms. We've seen duelists who've mastered multiple forms bested by those who've mastered one or two several times.
Frankly, the feats and accolades are far more important than what forms a character has mastered. That's why I would put duelists like Luke before Exar Kun, because I find their feats more impressive not because they know more forms.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Eh how great of a duelist can you really be with Niman?
Really great. It just means you have to put in a lot more hours than with the other forms.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah, tell that to the 200 dead Jedi at the Battle of Geonosis.
To be fair they all used Form VI the way it was intended. It was meant to allow the user to focus on other things, while still being capable fighters. Niman is more than enough to handle a few thugs or battle droids but 20,000 droids was too much.
Exar Kun showed that Niman can potentially be just as good as anything else, but you need to work a lot harder to get it to that level. None of those Jedi ever expected they'd need to.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
The idea that Exar Kun, Mr. Super Competitive and Headstrong, would use Niman kind of boggles the mind
Not really. It just shows that he saw Niman's full potential and was willing to put in the hours needed to unlock that potential.
He was as you say "Mr. Super Competitive and Headstrong" but he wasn't stupid.
Ulic Qel-Droma is imo the most technically gifted lightsaber practitioner in the mythos, and an incredibly powerful Force User to boot. Stalemating him is imo > than anything Luke's ever done. This was also before he started using his double bladed lightsaber and his new form (which was superior to the existing lightsaber forms), as well as going through a significant power boost.
