Originally posted by Lord Stark
"For superior balance, use the Niman form. This form has no specific strengths, but no weaknesses either."- Master KavarIs this what you are thinking of?
Nope. I know theres a form that crappy but becomes great with high levels of mastery and that this is specifically said about it, I just can't recall if its Niman or Shii-Cho.
Originally posted by Galan007
He was the first I thought of as well. The fact that he isn't even a force-adept, yet possesses sufficient swordsmanship to give top-tier Jedi/Sith a run for their money, is astounding.Again, Niman masters aren't 'ineffective'. Get that notion out of your head.
Niman as a form is simply more impractical to master(relative to many of the other forms) because of the time it takes to perfect in comparison to what you're ultimately attaining. Ten years is a LONG time--it didn't take Mace Windu much longer than that to both develop and master Vaapad, for example.
Hence it being 'ineffective' in efficiently acquiring skill?
Plus as you said the bladework isn't its main priority, and would be at a massive disadvantage against Makashi.
Both are not compatible with what we know about Exar Kun who defeats 600 year old battlemasters in lightsaber battles while a padawan and was obsessed with acquiring power as quickly as possible.
Originally posted by NephthysI've read through the Lightsaber Combat entries in Jedi/Sith-Essential Guide, Jedi Path, Fightsaber, and TCW Encyclopedia, and didn't see that verbiage for either form.
Nope. I know theres a form that crappy but becomes great with high levels of mastery and that this is specifically said about it, I just can't recall if its Niman or Shii-Cho.
An excerpt pulled from Juyo is the only thing that sounds remotely close to what you're recalling: "Only high-level masters of multiple forms can achieve and control this discipline, which can lead to fantastic power and skill."
srug
Originally posted by Astor EbligisAs was stated in multiple sources, before you acquaint yourself with Niman, you have already studied/mastered other forms of combat as well. No Jedi or Sith alive has only studied a single form--certainly Kun was no exception.
Hence it being 'ineffective' in efficiently acquiring skill?Plus as you said the bladework isn't its main priority, and would be at a massive disadvantage against Makashi.
Both are not compatible with what we know about Exar Kun who defeats 600 year old battlemasters in lightsaber battles while a padawan and was obsessed with acquiring power as quickly as possible.
Originally posted by Lord StarkI would imagine that Niman being the fundamental form for Jar'Kai would also come in handy with a double-bladed saber. This might be why Kun and Maul both employed it. /shrug
Eh, I just remember Cin Drallig calling Niman the least worthy of study of the seven forms, it seems odd then that the saber prodigy Exar Kun would then chose that as his form of choice.
Originally posted by NephthysTrue, but he goes on to note Niman's perceived insufficientness in his very next breath.
Nah, Drallig says that its not the most worthy of study, but it is the most practical.
Anywho, I can see why Niman may have been the most practical form in times of peace, but during the Clone Wars and beyond, forms that placed more emphasis on bladework would have been far more preferable--especially when you consider that they were also easier to perfect.
Originally posted by Galan007
Anywho, I can see why Niman may have been the most practical form in times of peace, but during the Clone Wars and beyond, forms that placed more emphasis on bladework would have been far more preferable--especially when you consider that they were also easier to perfect.
You know there is one thing we forgot to take into account about Niman and Exar Kun, Remember that jedi version of Niman incorporates SIX of the lightsaber forms not seven, The order only taught Juyo/Vaapad to jedi they thought were highly trained to resist the dark elements of Juyo/Vaapad Such as Mace Windu. So judging by that we could say that Exar Kun-being a Sith Lord as well as a great duelist - would incorporate Juyo(The Vaapad of the old republic) into his version of Niman.
I believe this could be the reason why Exar Kun was so ferocious as a lightsaber duelist as well as one of the many reasons he is NOT 'The weakest link' on the sith team
Originally posted by Fated XtasyPer Fightsaber, Niman is a combination of 4 Forms-- I, III, IV, V:
You know there is one thing we forgot to take into account about Niman and Exar Kun, Remember that jedi version of Niman incorporates SIX of the lightsaber forms not seven, The order only taught Juyo/Vaapad to jedi they thought were highly trained to resist the dark elements of Juyo/Vaapad Such as Mace Windu. So judging by that we could say that Exar Kun-being a Sith Lord as well as a great duelist - would incorporate Juyo(The Vaapad of the old republic) into his version of Niman.
I believe this could be the reason why Exar Kun was so ferocious as a lightsaber duelist as well as one of the many reasons he is NOT 'The weakest link' on the sith team
I agree with the rest of your post, though.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
So you're implying Kun is greater than Vitiate or Sidious?
Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
NewGuy01, Im not implying anything, while as a duellist I do consider him above Vitiate,yes, but only because Vitiate has shown very little in terms of lightsaber prowess, in terms of force power..well there is a reason vitiate is emperor, however to say that he or Exar Kun are above Palpatine in terms of both lightsaber prowess and force potential is a bit of a stretch in my humble opinion
You said that Exar Kun was not the weakest link on his side, which implies that he is greater than one of his teammates.
And yes, I would agree to the notion that Exar Kun is most definitely a better duelist than Vitiate, who doesn't even know how to properly hold a weapon.
And "a bit of a stretch" is something of an understatement, in my opinion. I mean, we're talking about the difference between a guy who blasts holes in walls and a guy who rips apart star fleets.
Originally posted by chilled monkey
I imagine it went something like this:VODO: Exar Kun, have you chosen a lightsabre form to specialize in?
EXAR: Yes Master Vodo. I shall specialize in Niman.
VODO: (thinks) Good. Perhaps he's finally learned to curb that competitive streak.
VODO: (aloud) A fine choice my apprentice.
EXAR: Thank you Master. I am certain I can raise the Form's level of bladework with sufficient training and when I do so the style's overall versatility will give me an edge.
VODO: (mutters) I should have known...
EXAR: What was that Master Vodo?
VODO: Nothing. Nothing at all.
I just imagine Makashi being the competitive duelist' form of choice. It certainly was for Dooku, and probably was integral in the techniques used by older characters such as Tulak Hord. In fact, the sheer amount of confirmed canon characters who don't use Makashi outside of the PT era is surprising, given its description as the pinnacle of lightsaber to lightsaber combat and an archaic tradition in Dooku's own time.
I seem to remember the very first Fightsaber article to be released (before the modified version which was later hosted on SW.com) indicated rather out of the blue that Exar Kun was a Makashi user. This was funny for two reasons: Kun predated the forms by many years, and Kun pretty much cleaved and smashed everything with his rage-induced strength, making him a better candidate for say, Form V.
Originally posted by NewGuy01
You said that Exar Kun was not the weakest link on his side, which implies that he is greater than one of his teammates.And yes, I would agree to the notion that Exar Kun is most definitely a better duelist than Vitiate, who doesn't even know how to properly hold a weapon.
And "a bit of a stretch" is something of an understatement, in my opinion. I mean, we're talking about the difference between a guy who blasts holes in walls and a guy who rips apart star fleets.
---
Sith Lords are most likely to win this contest. Vitiate and Sidious put together are too overwhelming for virtually any contest, IMO.
Originally posted by Stealth Moose
When was the last time Vitiate ever used a blade?I get that he doesn't need one, but still; he has never used one in any source I have seen, which includes TOR and Revan.
1. Picks up Revan's lightsaber, activates it and moves towards Revan to impale him. However, Surik knocks out the lightsaber from Vitiate's grasp just on time with a saber throw attack.
2. During second duel with HoT.