Originally posted by StealthRangerCongratulations, you've unlocked the "Wank HST even harder than SpaceBattles" achievement
Your reward is "drowning in your own jizz"
Goku wins 👆
have the sage and kaguya not been in more place than once.
Was the sage not talking to naruto and sasuke at the exact same time
to be able to exist in more than one dimension of space/time at a time is omnipotence if you guys didnt know
if you guys think im saying they are all powerfull thats not what im saying. to be all powerful doesnt equal omnipotence they are two different things. a god can be all powerful but not omnipotent and vice versa
and also you guys still fail to answer how goku could kill kaguya
And you've answered NONE of my questions, and until such time as you do, I won't have the capacity to give a damn about yours.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+omnipotent&oq=de&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i60l2j69i59j69i57j69i59.2064j0j4&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&espv=1&ie=UTF-8And you've answered NONE of my questions, and until such time as you do, I won't have the capacity to give a damn about yours.
I used the wrong word i should have said omniscient.
What question did you ask?all you guys did was bring up irrelavant things like shadow the hedgehog.
Originally posted by BloodRain
Yeah you're tthinking about omniscient, which they're not. To 've omniscient they would need to be everywhere at all times, even if in a limited area.Might also be forgetting but didn't they only stay in a single dimension at a time?
Thanks for the correction i used the wrong word.
The sage was in multiple dimensions at once when he was talking to both sasuke and naruto at once from what i remember he was saying he exists throughout space/time because his chakra is passed through generations. In essence he will be around long after naruto and sasuke die and has been around hundreds of years before he was born. The same for kaguya the sage was never able to kill her only seal her she never died and she will live throughout the generations. They at least have a limited sense of omniscience.
My point is how can base goku kill beings like that along with every single fighter from each of the three series. All three series have hax and strategists leagues smarter than him
To think combined minds of everyone from 3 verses from ppl like aizen, the nara clan, the 22 kage from each village, the gotei 13 and much more ppl i forget to name the list is endless could not find a strategy to beat goku is ridicolous.
Kaguya by herself is a planetary threat and one guy in the hst control fire hotter than the sun itself come on no
Originally posted by yungz22
I used the wrong word i should have said omniscient.What question did you ask?all you guys did was bring up irrelavant things like shadow the hedgehog.
How does their "immorality" work? How'd they get dealt with in their respective verses? (Aizen you actually answered, so there's a start.) Hypothetically, do you think Goku can kill Ganondorf?
Shadow is relevant because he, too, is immortal, who I used as a reference for how immortality isn't absolute (to say nothing of the fact that he could annihilate them), and I think you and Rain are actually thinking of 'omnipresent'.
To summarize:
Omniscient = all knowing
Omnipotent = all powerful
Omnipresent = everywhere
Originally posted by Sacred 117
How does their "immorality" work? How'd they get dealt with in their respective verses? (Aizen you actually answered, so there's a start.) Hypothetically, do you think Goku can kill Ganondorf?Shadow is relevant because he, too, is immortal, who I used as a reference for how immortality isn't absolute (to say nothing of the fact that he could annihilate them), and I think you and Rain are actually thinking of 'omnipresent'.
To summarize:
Omniscient = all knowing
Omnipotent = all powerful
Omnipresent = everywhere
Shadow just doesnt age and is immune to sickness he can still die, aizen is on a higher plane of immortality than shadow.
Kaguya and the sage are on higher planes than both of the previous in the case that they will never die no matter what and will live throughout time. The only way kaguya and the sage can be stopped is to seal them.
The edo tensei are just about on the same plane of immortality as the sage and kaguya because their souls are bound to the living world until the jutsu caster releases them. If the caster dies then the edo will stay alive bound to the living plane forever. They can only be stopped if sealed.
Now how can goku beat an opponant like kaguya and the whole hst by himself in just ssj1? Remember kaguya is a planetary threat by herself.
He cant just punch blast energy because the immortals wil not die that way and goku knows ono sealing techniques so hed lose energy fighting these opponants plus the whole hst
"Perfect Immortality" (what you're essentially trying to describe) is reserved for abstract beings. Are you trying to tell me that's what she is? (God, I hope not. haermm)
The only other thing you could be implying is that their immortality override is lore-specific, and that's not how this whole debating thing works. This was why I brought up Ganondorf (a point you failed to address yet again), because he's a grand example of this.
If it helps to actually get your attention, I'll point out (since you didn't notice already) that I have yet to even claim Goku as the victor (unlike you on Page 1 haermm). I've only thus far examined what I find wrong with your claims.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
"Perfect Immortality" (what you're essentially trying to describe) is reserved for abstract beings. Are you trying to tell me that's what she is? (God, I hope not. haermm)The only other thing you could be implying is that their immortality override is lore-specific, and that's not how this whole debating thing works. This was why I brought up Ganondorf (a point you failed to address yet again), because he's a grand example of this.
If it helps to actually get your attention, I'll point out (since you didn't notice already) that I have yet to even claim Goku as the victor (unlike you on Page 1 haermm). I've only thus far examined what I find wrong with your claims.
Werent you the one who was talking about the different planes of immortality.
So kaguya, the sage and edo tensei are normal beings?
I dont play zelda so i cant comment on ganondorf.
Once again you dodge my question ill accept your concession.
Originally posted by yungz22
Werent you the one who was talking about the different planes of immortality.So kaguya, the sage and edo tensei are normal beings?
I dont play zelda so i cant comment on ganondorf.
Once again you dodge my question ill accept your concession.
Yeah, and SR listed some of them for you. Be a dear, and point out which one you believe her to have.
Who the hell said that? I'm not claiming "normality", but they're sure as hell not Abstracts (I.e. Arceus, The Living Tribunal, The One Above All, etc.).
Fair enough, but I encourage you to look into it for reference. Clear debate standards are established solely because of guys like him. I'll cite this, if necessary.
The answer's simple. You can't honestly debate with a no-limits fallacy, which is what you've been trying to do this entire time. I've been trying to decipher just how far you think you can go with that.
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Yeah, and SR listed some of them for you. Be a dear, and point out which one you believe her to have.Who the hell said that? I'm not claiming "normality", but they're sure as hell not Abstracts (I.e. Arceus, The Living Tribunal, The One Above All, etc.).
Fair enough, but I encourage you to look into it for reference. Clear debate standards are established solely because of guys like him. I'll cite this, if necessary.
The answer's simple. You can't honestly debate with a no-limits fallacy, which is what you've been trying to do this entire time. I've been trying to decipher just how far you think you can go with that.
its not a no limits fallacy if the only way they can be defeated is if they are sealed. it was stated and demonstrated in manga.
both the sage and kaguya have shown examples of their immortality and ability to transcend generations many times as well as a limited form of omnipresence
same with the edo its not a no limits fallacy if thats how the jutsu works. and it was backed up in manga.....look at how long madara was still around longer after kabuto was defeated.
a no limits fallacy would be saying that the chaos emeralds give shadow and sonic unlimited power therefore they can beat everybody
Originally posted by chasedown
both the sage and kaguya have shown examples of their immortality and ability to transcend generations many times as well as a limited form of omnipresence
Good for them. That still doesn't put them at Abstract tier.
a no limits fallacy would be saying that the chaos emeralds give shadow and sonic unlimited power therefore they can beat everybody
Thanks for proving my point. Lore-specific shit doesn't bound to it those from outside of said lore, so the same rules don't necessarily apply to them, which effectively means we can dismiss everything else you just said (because it's basically the same idea). Glad we agree. 👆
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Good for them. That still doesn't put them at Abstract tier.Thanks for proving my point. Lore-specific shit doesn't bound to it those from outside of said lore, so the same rules don't necessarily apply to them, which effectively means we can dismiss everything else you just said (because it's basically the same idea). Glad we agree. 👆
its not because they are immortal. The term immortal is not lore specific.could goku, piccolo, Gohan , and krillin have killed garlic jr? No They had to seal him because he was what? Immortal.
your saying all this yet you still cant answer how goku would beat her, the sage and the rest of the whole HST.
Originally posted by chasedown
its not because they are immortal. The term immortal is not lore specific.could goku, piccolo, Gohan , and krillin have killed garlic jr? No They had to seal him because he was what? Immortal.your saying all this yet you still cant answer how goku would beat her, the sage and the rest of the whole HST.
Let me put it this way. When you say things along the lines of "(So-and-so) can only be (something or another) by/with (oddly specific technique/process/weapon/item," you should probably ask yourself the simplest of questions: What are the honest f**king odds of someone from outside of the series having access to that (unless otherwise specified)? You can't come to reasonable conclusions by reaching them through unreasonable means. That's just a logical fact.
Hmmm... Remember when I said "Goku wins?" Yeah, me either. (I literally just went over that earlier.)
Originally posted by Sacred 117
Let me put it this way. When you say things along the lines of "(So-and-so) can only be (something or another) by/with (oddly specific technique/process/weapon/item," you should probably ask yourself the simplest of questions: What are the honest f**king odds of someone from outside of the series having access to that (unless otherwise specified)? You can't come to reasonable conclusions by reaching them through unreasonable means. That's just a logical fact.Hmmm... Remember when I said "Goku wins?" Yeah, me either. (I literally just went over that earlier.)
its not my fault that goku is a martial artist thats rather one dimensional. Sure goku might have a higher destructive output but there is more elements than dc that determine a fight.
He cant kill Kaguya, the sage, or edo because he doesnt have any sealing techniques. which is against them and the whole hst he loses.
that is why he loses.
it has nothing to do with a no limits fallacy.
Originally posted by chasedown
its not my fault that goku is a martial artist thats rather one dimensional. Sure goku might have a higher destructive output but there is more elements than dc that determine a fight.He cant kill Kaguya, the sage, or edo because he doesnt have any sealing techniques. which is against them and the whole hst he loses.
that is why he loses.
it has nothing to do with a no limits fallacy.
I know DC isn't the only thing that matters, and I'm not trying to say that it is. The only thing I'm disputing is the idea that anyone believes that anything in Naruto-verse can be held to an absolute. That's why the 'NLF' clause was implemented in the first place, and to ignore it to suit one's case is just ludicrous.
I could care less about the outcome of this thread for reasons I've previously stated, but I'll deal with you. I give you your desired answer, specifically having to do with whether or not I believe Goku can kill Kaguya (unrelated to his odds of victory or defeat), and I'll leave you alone... Depending on your answer to the following: We agree that everything has limits, yes? (A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.)