Originally posted by Stoic
Diana's lasso is not guaranteed to work on him, he is unstoppable, so this is an argument that shouldn't be pressed.
It would work. Provide a resistance to an analogue move, we know that psychic attacks have compelled Juggs to stop in the past.
I don't get your argument at all "it shouldn't be pressed because it's not guaranteed", well you're implying that it might work, so it should be pressed. Unless you can proof it can't work.
Originally posted by Bentley
It would work. Provide a resistance to an analogue move, we know that psychic attacks have compelled Juggs to stop in the past.I don't get your argument at all "it shouldn't be pressed because it's not guaranteed", well you're implying that it might work, so it should be pressed. Unless you can proof it can't work.
He also has his helmet on, with precog abilities, and is faster than both of them combined. He could reverse Diana's move, and tie her up while he takes her half a world away KO'ing her only to be right back in Superman's face an instant later. They would be like statues if he poured it on. To assume, or pretend that he does not know how to use the powers is pretty silly tbh. Do you think Supermex just decided to give him these powers, and he would not know how to use them?
He never has to allow either of these guys to touch him, and all of his weaknesses are shored up, as far as these two go. They lose, unless he allows them to win. they would have a tough time with 8th Day Juggernaut alone, and now he is given the power to give Tyrant a run, and you think that these two will somehow pull off a win? Wow.
Yes, he knows how to use his powers. But to what level?
Flash powers
Impulse-level? So he can create speed force avatars, read every book ever written and instantly remember/recall it years later?
Wally-level? So he can speed steal, lend speed, heal at light speeds, create speed force constructs, time travel under his own power, explode objects by running and vibrating through them, IMPs?
Barry-level? So Geoff Johns wankery?
Adult Bart level? So speed steals by looking at people (although Wally can also do this)?
Jay-level? So topping out about supersonic?
Spidey sense
Peter level? So he can effectively use it as pre-cog?
Ock level? So he can only have a vague understanding of where danger is coming from, and being in darkness effectively cancels it out?
Do you see what we mean now? Different users have different levels. To argue that Bart/Jay did not know how to use the SF is stupid. But Wally clearly had more tricks up his sleeve. You can't argue (unless you have proof of course) that all these levels of mastery were due to the Flash's/Spiderman's fear of hurting their own bodies.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, he knows how to use his powers. But to what level?[b]Flash powers
Impulse-level? So he can create speed force avatars, read every book ever written and instantly remember/recall it years later?Wally-level? So he can speed steal, lend speed, heal at light speeds, create speed force constructs, time travel under his own power, explode objects by running and vibrating through them, IMPs?
Barry-level? So Geoff Johns wankery?
Adult Bart level? So speed steals by looking at people (although Wally can also do this)?
Jay-level? So topping out about supersonic?
Spidey sense
Peter level? So he can effectively use it as pre-cog?Ock level? So he can only have a vague understanding of where danger is coming from, and being in darkness effectively cancels it out?
Do you see what we mean now? Different users have different levels. To argue that Bart/Jay did not know how to use the SF is stupid. But Wally clearly had more tricks up his sleeve. You can't argue (unless you have proof of course) that all these levels of mastery were due to the Flash's/Spiderman's fear of hurting their own bodies. [/B]
The speed force is different than a pre cog ability, they won't be fighting in a pitch black room so it will work as it should. With his speed advantage over theirs he never has to allow her the opportunity to rope him up, and even if she does, why would it faze him while he has the helmet on? He could just remove it as fast as it was placed on him. In a physical fight Diana wouldn't be able to outfight Cain (not at his best).
Jay Garrick's body isn't nearly as powerful as Cain's none of the Flashes have his strength. What I think is silly, is to believe that he wouldn't be stronger than any Flash is with the speed force. All of the powers granted to him should actually work better on a superior body. After all we already know that he would never be spent, he could run at the speed of light or better forever without tiring.
Maybe he wouldn't be able to speed steal, or maybe he would. One thing is certain, he would be faster than they are. He would also think faster than Spider Man, and would be able to react to anything that they could toss his way before they did so, as I pointed out before. I'm wondering what your deal is with this anyways? It's a stomp in Cain's favor. He has all of the tools to break these two with ease.
He's also magical. what happens if he hit's Superman at light speed?
I'm just saying, the body does not make a lick of difference to a SF user. It's their mastery and their intelligence that unlocks the different usages of their powers. What difference does having a frailer body make if you can heal at light speed?
I brought up SpOck because it obviously has a bearing on his skill with the Spider sense. Not everyone is as proficient as Peter was with his.
IF for example, he has Jay's level of control, then Superman can speed blitz him. Arguably, if he had Wally's, then he could also be speed blitzed. Wally subconsciously LIMITED himself so he could never attain Barry's level of speed, for example. Then he upgraded. So he's faster than Barry, who Supes has kept up with before, and Diana has lassoed Wally before whilst he was running all over the place.
And if he had SpOck's level of control of the Spidey sense, then its useless. Because SpOck has been speed blitzed before.
Originally posted by Stoic
Yeah and Juggernaut has also always been a magical creature. He is faster than they are, and if this is Cain at his best, before the nerf he wins this easily. They won't be able to hurt him. Thor hit him, and it did absolutely nothing to him. Superman may hit harder than Thor, but not to the point that he's taking someone down that is this durable, has a Spider Sense, moves faster than he does, and can absorb any energy attack that Superman throws at him. Adding to all of that. he won't tire the way Flash does.The only thing that would happen is that if Superman punched him, he would end up breaking his own hand, and that's if he manages to hit him. Juggernaut isn't the brightest, but he's far from this poor picture that you're painting of him.
i am a juggernaut fan i know what i am talking about. what i really dont like is people trying to twist the character into something its not. juggernaut is very durable but we saw him being hurt many times like all the showings i pointed out and stated. superman will punch him into orbit, and only someone who lacks any knowledge at all would even believe superman can break his hand on juggernaut.
juggy is my boy and i know what he is capable of as well as his limits, i dont like the wanking fest thats going on here where people believe juggernaut cant be hurt.
Originally posted by JuggernautMania
Superman can easily match flash both in travel speed and specially in combat speed.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No, he can't. Flash IS the fastest man alive. But Superman is right next to him in speed and Cain doesn't have the experience of Flashes to compensate for Superman's own experience.
there were 2 races already where superman matched him. also by fighting speed superman blitzed characters many times and was stated to be operating at light speed while fighting.
Originally posted by JuggernautMania
there were 2 races already where superman matched him. also by fighting speed superman blitzed characters many times and was stated to be operating at light speed while fighting.
When was it stated he was operating at light speed when fighting? Everyone and their grandma has been asking for this. Scans.