Phoenix vs. Surtur

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still waiting on that scan that depicts the PF letting off the Big Bang.

Oh no, you have the one where she remakes Eternity/Infinity.

Actually no, you have the one where she re-creates the Universe.

That's also a no, no.

So, you have ... nothing! ... Yet, we should accept Nothing! and disregard what has actually taken place on panel.

Like Sise-Neg, like Genis/Entropy, like Thanos/HOTI, like the Alien Entity.

"scientific genius" was talking out of his ass without proof.

But the "scientific genius" saw the truth with his own eyes:

The real Big Bang, (on panel) occurring!

The real "Spark" that ignites creation (on panel) occurring!

The real embodiment of the Big Bang (on panel) occurring!

The Big Bang in the flesh (on panel actually depicted)

... not talk, talk, talk, which = to hyperbole.

......................................................................................

"the spark that lit the fire of creation"

What you have there is them setting off the Big Bang. Lighting a match. Not creating reality. Triggering it. Takes a lot less power and is less significant. 🙂

The PF is those infinite creation energies. These scans dont disprove that.

Plus my recent Wolverine and the X-men scans, recent as of came out 2 days ago state and depict the PF being the energies of creation and exploding as the Big Bang before settling into being all that is 😄

As Abhilegend and I have stated a few times now, there are several beginnings and ends, what is without a doubt though is that the Phoenix is those energies that these other beings are merely triggering, lighting a match if you will.

We'll leave it at that 😉

Planetary EMP,
which evidently is enough to shatter the almighty PF! 🙂

......................................................................................

Xorn, killing Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself!

......................................................................................

On Panel:

......................................................................................

Beast remembers:

......................................................................................

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion pieces"

......................................................................................

Bios: 100% canon

......................................................................................

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005 - Phoenix Force bio)

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"

......................................................................................

(from WC Phoenix - Jean Grey's official 2008 bio)

"Jean opposed faux Magneto but was killed by a lethal EMP
that shattered the Phoenix Force into Billions of pieces"

===========================================

===========================================

The Shiar has made the almighty Phoenix Force it's ***** as well:

Actually they (Shiar) not only forced the PF's resurrection:

But they also shattered the PF itself into pieces
partially due to the "Event Horizon" they attacked it with:

So canonically, the PF has been shattered TWICE!

1. Into Billions of pieces by an EMP at the hands of Xorn.

2. By a Shiar device as well.

......................................................................................

On Panel proof:

Here's the PF again, being shattered, this time by the Shiar:

......................................................................................

Jean Grey was still dead, since Xorn's EMP!

......................................................................................

Here's the Shiar at the end of the issue,
explaining the "Eleka'an Event Horizon" they used on the PF.
The PF survived by escaping at the last moment,
but it was still injured, dying, meh, literally shattered again!

......................................................................................

100% canon

Bio confirmation of said on panel proof:

"The Force was later ripped back to reality by a Shiar device
that forcibly reconstituted it. Injured, the Force fell ....
searched for Jean and, finding her DEAD, resurrected her ..."

===========================================

===========================================

Galactus once was going to erase/destroy/kill the PF, by trying to separate it from Rachel Summers.

At the time/story, the PF had bonded to Rachel fully, everything the PF was, so too was Rachel:

......................................................................................

So when Galactus began to forcibly separate the PF from Rachel, he was killing them both, since they were one.

Roma told big G the separation was impossible, because Rachel was the PF!

......................................................................................

Galactus learned that the PF being a concept and therefore a force of nature, can die,
but then the stars of the universe will fade since cosmic consonance would be disrupted.

Although Galactus (and any other that doesn't need stars) would survive,
Galactus opt to allow the PF to live. But he could've just as easily giving in to Miss Death's wishes. (let the PF die)

===========================================

100% canon

This On Panel truth was confirmed/corroborated in the official Handbooks:

The PF, like all Concepts, is a primal force of the universe.
So of course if you destroy it, as Galactus was clearly capable of doing,
it would harm the universe.

Heck, when Galactus died, the Multiverse began to collapse courtesy of Abaraxas.
Does this make G anymore that what he is by default? Nah.

Erishkigel was manipulating Lord Chaos, and this cause reality to unbalance.
Does this make LC anymore that what he is by default? Nah.

All fundamental/primal forces of the universe have the same essentiality to reality.

==========================================

The PF was manhandled, stomped and nearly killed yet again,
by some alien Ship:

===========================================

While the Phoenix Force is in it's purest form (no host)

The Ship, rips a hole in Space & Time in front of the Phoenix Force while in 616,
and forces it into the Multiverse that houses the Ultraverse Universe:

"Out of one marvelous Universe and into another"

......................................................................................

Then, the Ship attacks the actual Phoenix Force,
the SHIP wants to drain the energy of the Force:

"Impaled, Spitted, the Phoenix writhes as it's life is sucked out"

It has never known PAIN of this magnitude, it SCREAMS"

......................................................................................

"It's willfully torturing the Phoenix ..... am I imagining things,
or is it's fire going out, the colors are fading, like it's dying ...

... Truly,
the Phoenix is battling for it's life against the sear of Light that is stripping it's power away"

......................................................................................

The Phoenix manages to break free for a moment (though near death)

"Wounded the Phoenix falls, to survive, to mend, to heal, it must find a Host"

......................................................................................

The SHIP allows the Phoenix to escape for now,

"to locate it's pilot program before draining it entirely"

......................................................................................

This is all 100% canon!

......................................................................................

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook - Phoenix Force bio)

"Impaled on a Lance of energy, Wounded, the Force sought a host to protect it as it Healed"

===========================================

===========================

😆 ... Heck ... even a few heroes are enough to handle the Force itself!

===========================

A Few members of the X-Men and Ultra Force (six in all)
are sent to battle the actual Phoenix Force (host-less) ... this is the real deal.

.....................................................................

"The assembled Heroes are tired & battered,
the Phoenix (no host) is reborn and fresh"

And they're still holding their own! 👆

.....................................................................

The Six heroes beat (physically) the Phoenix Force (no host) into and through the Portal:

.....................................................................

The Phoenix Force ends up displaced by Four Billion Years:

==================================

100% canon

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005)

"the Heroes were able to drive the FORCE into another portal,
and it emerged Four Billion years in the Past"

---------------------------------------------------------------

Confirmed Again in the 2007 Handbook Bios:

Originally posted by Mr Master
Planetary EMP,
which evidently is enough to shatter the almighty PF! 🙂

......................................................................................

Xorn, killing Jean Grey ... and exploding the actual Phoenix Force itself!

......................................................................................

[B]On Panel:

......................................................................................

Beast remembers:

......................................................................................

This incident involving Xorn & the Phoenix Force
was actually recalled by the embodiment of the Phoenix Force itself in "Endsong"

"I thought I was Dead, in a Billion Billion pieces"

......................................................................................

Bios: 100% canon

......................................................................................

(From the Official Marvel Universe Handbook 2005 - Phoenix Force bio)

"Jean Grey was Killed by an Electromagnetic Pulse,

this shattered the Force into Billions of PIECES"

......................................................................................

(from WC Phoenix - Jean Grey's official 2008 bio)

"Jean opposed faux Magneto but was killed by a lethal EMP
that shattered the Phoenix Force into Billions of pieces"

=========================================== [/B]

Unable to disprove the canonical fact that it is the energies of creation you try to mock the Phoenix Force instead?

You are one poor debater Mr M. Very poor ❌

This irrelevant spam attack of scans unrelated to the point in debate just reeks of desperation.

This has always been your last resort. When the going gets tough and youre stumped, mock and spam until the truth is covered up with unrelated scans 🙂

Yeah, that is just a desperate move. Sad actually.

^^ You're just in the way at this point.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Unable to disprove the canonical fact that it is the energies of creation you try to mock the Phoenix Force instead?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
This irrelevant spam attack of scans unrelated to the point in debate just reeks of desperation.

It was your classic style at its finest. I'm tired of that comedy.

I posted your supposed "big bang sentient energies" (PF) getting stomped by all kinds of characters. swank

Good night.

And what are you going to do about it if I'm in the way, tough guy?

Well what happened to Surtur?
At least the Phoenix can win this fight.

mmm Mr.M must have a Phoenix folder labeled specifically "Galactic Storm repellant".

Originally posted by abhilegend
And what are you going to do about it if I'm in the way, tough guy?

Uh oh...watch out for abhi the keyboard gangsta. 😆

Originally posted by zopzop
Marvel's is a clusterphuck.

Can somebody please fix this broken record?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Well what happened to Surtur?
At least the Phoenix can win this fight.

mmm Mr.M must have a Phoenix folder labeled specifically "Galactic Storm repellant".

Uh oh...watch out for abhi the keyboard gangsta. 😆

Can somebody please fix this broken record?

Originally posted by abhilegend
All of them.

I don't think so.

Originally posted by zopzop
Quan, who do you think wins?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Yeah, that is just a desperate move. Sad actually.

Hypocrisy much?

Originally posted by Sundipped
Can somebody please fix this broken record?

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Substance-less?

You have Reed Richards explicitly stating that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang.

You have the Phoenix Force stating on panel that it is the sum of all that is and the creator of the stars.

You have an on panel instance of where Galactus is disrupting the Forces connection to reality and the stars start fading which is on panel evidence that all the previous testimonies are correct. With the Watcher, Roma and Death all supporting the fact that its the Phoenixes power that prevents reality from being a void.

You have Tony Stark stating that to attempt to kill the Phoenix Force means figuring out how to crack "Universal expansion".

The evidence is numerous and from multiple reputable sources all portraying the same point throughout continuity, that the Phoenix Force is the sentient energies of creation and it manifests to perpetuate the creation cycle, being its own end which itself triggers the beginning of a new cycle.

http://imageshack.com/a/img862/5713/classicxmen024story2p15.jpg

http://imageshack.com/a/img28/7550/uncannyxmen10473.jpg

The very reason why Eternity calls it the Resurrection Force. The assurance of a new cycle.

http://imageshack.com/a/img140/2/xmenforever0616.jpg

The point is made consistently throughout continuity. You cannot objectively deny that the Phoenix Force is the Big Bang and that it perpetuates the creation cycle.

Reed Richards recently time-traveled 13 billion years back to the origin of the universe. The Big Bang era. And he didn't, not even once, mention anything about the Phoenix Force being the stuff in which his ship was wading through. Or the fact that Blastaar was left in a suit made random aliens in the midst of the Big Bang as well.

So all you have are statements instead of actual, indisputable proof like the X-Termination storyline which went out of its way to showcase how the Celestials constructed the original prime universe, shattered it into the present day multiverse, and then erected the walls between realities which imprisoned the Exterminators? That's it?

Tony Stark's actions, which are set in AvX, actually confirm that the PF was born from the Big Bang, not that it is the Big Bang. Crucial difference there.

I have seen the bulk of the evidence you've posted before, and most of it is something which should be taken with a grain of salt. Except for the Quentin Quire scans, none of the rest of your stuff can actually hold upto scrutiny, and even the recent X-Men scans are more or less the same hyperbole which, as L. Ron himself all but confirms, are stories told by extraterrestrial religious cults that worship the Phoenix as a god.

Get back to me the day you can get some actual proof of the Phoenix being the Big Bang, and then we'll talk. Until then, do try to refrain from spreading your propaganda like one of those in-comic nutjob fanatics who worship the PF, lol.

Originally posted by Epicurus
She never gained any definitive win over him in any of those confrontations save the one where the Force took over Rachel's body.😬

Originally posted by Epicurus
This is strange, considering you were one of the many people who mocked/dismissed Storm's opinion in that Time Trapper vs Phoenix thread.

Hypocrisy much?

Originally posted by Epicurus
Sucking quan's dick of all people now, are ye? I say thee; UGH! 😘

Originally posted by Epicurus
He flip-flops better than an actual, real-life digital gate type flip-flop. 😂