Adam Warlock w/IG vs Maelstrom w/Anomaly vs Ereshkigal w/S

Originally posted by operator616

By "same" i meant that in both of those instances, LT didn't want to fight because it would damage reality.

But Warlock/LT would have definitely damaged the 616-reality only, since LT said it would lay waste to "this reality", which clearly isn't a reference to the DoM but rather 616-reality (much like when Warlock referred to Eternity as being the embodiment of "this" reality, clearly referring to the 616-reality, since we both know that Eternity isn't the embodiment of DoM).

What is a fact though, is that the DoM is outside Eternity.

When Eternity said I am this uni, .. I'm sure he meant the uni he represents.

Originally posted by operator616

Well you said that without the congress, she never did anything within the nexus, so i referred you to that scene. And imo, it's impressive (perhaps the most impressive thing she did, but clearly not IG-impressive). She sent shockwaves into each one of those holes (each one leading to a different reality), and in the 616-reality she threatened milky way, so presumable it had similar effects on other realities. That's worth mentioning, imo.

Originally posted by operator616

I realize that they were in the DoM. Non of that changes that they referred to 616-reality as "this reality".
Same comic, Eternity says that he's the embodiment all there is in this universe, despite being in the DoM:
http://i.imgur.com/CkSBLuU.jpg?1
That means that Eternity is the embodiment of DoM? I think not.

There are several examples in that same comic. Re-read it. Of course there are other examples from other comics, which im sure you're aware of. Just because LT said that it would lay waste to "this reality" doesn't mean its DoM.

Eternity was referring to himself, not his surroundings imo.

Anyway, if they were going to destroy 616 (as in yur opinion)
then they were going to destroy 616 and the DoM. (definitely not just 616)

Originally posted by zopzop

Even against Warlock with the IG, he didn't threaten to attack him with a multiversal posse despite the damage they would cause to the Dimension of Manifestations.

The Incomplete IG blew up the entire Multiverse and remade it.

... thread.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Zop, what are ya arguing here?

The Incomplete IG [b]blew up the entire Multiverse and remade it.

... thread. [/B]

That speaks volumes.

Originally posted by zopzop

Yet the LT didn't see it fit to intervene. But he not only PERSONALLY stepped in to attempt to stop Erishkigal he threatened her with a posse of the mighty of the multiverse.

As for silly Erishkigel: Don't remember guy giving her the in-comic stipulations she was blessed with,
like her merging with the Congress and having solo access to the Nexus.
LT saying he's enlisting others to stomp her is just poor writing,
especially after he had just stated he was above her power.

Anyway, based on feats and reason Erishkigel gets wtfstomped by Warlock.
Even if Warlock were given the Incomplete IG he would wtfstomp Erishkigel.

Dude re-created the entire Multiverse after it had just exploded in his struggle with Magus. (Incomplete IG)

No need for a Nexus.

^ Regarding re-creating the multiverse: I don't see anything that suggests that except a statement from a Moon Knight tie-in saying that it will determine the fate of the multiverse. Which is contradicted.

Originally posted by operator616

^ Regarding re-creating the multiverse: I don't see anything that suggests that except a statement from a Moon Knight tie-in saying that it will determine the fate of the multiverse. Which is contradicted.

When Warlock and Magus struggled over the Incomplete IG, it was a confrontation spanning Countless UniverseS:

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603263_IG_Entire_Multiverse1.jpg]

-----------------------------------------------------

We know this meant the Multiverse, because the Entire Multiverse was in jeopardy:

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603265_IG_Entire_Multiverse2.jpg]

-----------------------------------------------------

We're given further clarification that their struggle was Multiversal
because they ended up at "the farthest edges of the Multiverse:"

Where "Reality explodes!

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603267_IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg]

-----------------------------------------------------

We know this meant the Multiverse exploding because from the farthest edges of the Multiverse,
the 616 Universe was destroyed and remade:

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603269_IG_Entire_Multiverse4.jpg]

-----------------------------------------------------

To cement this as absolute fact, we have Dr Strange 1000 Years in the Future, witnessing Time Ripples outside Reality-691.

Time Ripples caused by the Warlock/Magus/Incomplete IG battle.

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603272_IG_Entire_Multiverse5.jpg]

==============================

As an unbiased reasonable debater you are, I think you'll agree.

Now we can all use this as reference to unequivocally claim the IG was trully Multiversal.
Well, I mean if the Incomplete IG could explode and remake the Multiverse that is. 😄

Originally posted by Mr Master
When Warlock and Magus struggled over the Incomplete IG, it was a confrontation spanning Countless UniverseS:

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603263_IG_Entire_Multiverse1.jpg]

Let's post the rest of that scan:

http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1

".....for the fate of the universe"

So according to this, the universe, and not the multiverse, is threatened.

Originally posted by Mr Master

We know this meant the Multiverse, because the Entire Multiverse was in jeopardy:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603265_IG_Entire_Multiverse2.jpg]
-----------------------------------------------------
We're given further clarification that their struggle was Multiversal
because they ended up at "the [b]farthest edges of the Multiverse:"
Where "Reality explodes!
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603267_IG_Entire_Multiverse3.jpg]
-----------------------------------------------------
We know this meant the Multiverse exploding because from the farthest edges of the Multiverse,
the 616 Universe was destroyed and remade:
[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603269_IG_Entire_Multiverse4.jpg]
[/B]

Figured you'd used that.

Anyway, let's look at this, from those Moon Knight tie-ins:

http://i.imgur.com/OzxsXqb.jpg?1

"a universe torn asunder"

Yeah, these kind of comments tend to get thrown around (concerning the multiverse being threatened, see below), but we must look at the bigger picture here. Apart from that single comment there's nothing to suggest what you're saying. Being in the "farthest edge of the multiverse" doesn't mean much.

In the IG arc, same thing happened, Thanos was indirectly referred to as a multiversal threat, in Dr Strange v3 #32:

http://i.imgur.com/oRB9wE5.jpg?1

Despite the fact that it was made clear he was universal.

Nothing new.

Also, before the Warlock/Magus scene, when Magus acquired the IG, it's attributed to changing the fate of an actuality (a universe):

http://i.imgur.com/qucQIb8.jpg?1

That supports my argument that it was universal. Not to mention that Eternity/Infinity defeated that IG. It was confirmed later that it was universal Eternity (when he said "this universe" that is I), and the handbooks also support that it was universal versions.

Originally posted by Mr Master

To cement this as absolute fact, we have Dr Strange 1000 Years in the Future, witnessing Time Ripples outside Reality-691.

Time Ripples caused by the Warlock/Magus/Incomplete IG battle.

[img=http://s5d3.turboimagehost.com/t/18603272_IG_Entire_Multiverse5.jpg]

We've been over this. that GOGT #33 scene, doesn't mention anything about Warlock/Magus.

Originally posted by Mr Master

As an unbiased reasonable debater you are, I think you'll agree.

Now we can all use this as reference to unequivocally claim the IG was trully Multiversal.
Well, I mean if the Incomplete IG could explode and remake the Multiverse that is. 😄

Thanks, but sorry, i don't agree.

Nope. That's not news to me. Ive been aware of this before, and had it been the case, i would have acknowledged IG being fully multiversal before.

well, there is an obvious solution to the quandary you gentlemen find yourself in....... 😖hifty:

i tend to agree with whomever has said eresh was powerful enough to pose a challenge to lt. a greater challenge than adam would have? impossible to say since we didn't see either battle, but i think the intent was clear: her vs lt was gonna cause a whole lot of trouble for everything. i think the difference between adam and her is only a few degrees either way. ig has more feats, obviously, so i'd likely go with him, but i don't think it's a sure thing.

as for maelstrom--i think in that arc he was intended to be on par with thanos. we even saw a what if where that was depicted as true as the quasar canon book. again, intent seems clear to me. i was always under the impression that it was the q-bands though that were the major source of his power. he even refers to them as a source of infinite power. i think maybe he was tapping them in a way most don't. at least, without going back to look it up, that was my impression. maybe it's a mis-recollection, but it always sort of fit for me.

Originally posted by operator616
Let's post the rest of that scan:
http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1
".....for the fate of the universe"
So according to this, the universe, and not the multiverse, is threatened.
Figured you'd used that.
Anyway, let's look at this, from those Moon Knight tie-ins:
http://i.imgur.com/OzxsXqb.jpg?1
"a universe torn asunder"
Yeah, these kind of comments tend to get thrown around (concerning the multiverse being threatened, see below), but we must look at the bigger picture here. Apart from that single comment there's nothing to suggest what you're saying. Being in the "farthest edge of the multiverse" doesn't mean much.
In the IG arc, same thing happened, Thanos was indirectly referred to as a multiversal threat, in Dr Strange v3 #32:
http://i.imgur.com/oRB9wE5.jpg?1
Despite the fact that it was made clear he was universal.
Nothing new.
Also, before the Warlock/Magus scene, when Magus acquired the IG, it's attributed to changing the fate of an actuality (a universe):
http://i.imgur.com/qucQIb8.jpg?1
That supports my argument that it was universal. Not to mention that Eternity/Infinity defeated that IG. It was confirmed later that it was universal Eternity (when he said "this universe" that is I), and the handbooks also support that it was universal versions.
We've been over this. that GOGT #33 scene, doesn't mention anything about Warlock/Magus.
Thanks, but sorry, i don't agree.
Nope. That's not news to me. Ive been aware of this before, and had it been the case, i would have acknowledged IG being fully multiversal before.

From where I stand, the Incomplete IG exploded the Multiverse once Eternity/Infinity joined the battle.

Then Warlock remade all that shit. Simple.

I proved my point with the scans, you had your point and that's that.
Anyway, no different than the arguments made for lucifer's universe made multiverse.

btw. "A universe torn asunder" is referring to the 616 reality cause that's where the FF just landed:

[img=http://s5d4.turboimagehost.com/t/18603963_IG_Entire_Multiverse6.jpg]

Why would the writer use the term "Multiverse" in reference to the magnitude here,
to then make it so it's juts a single universe at play here.

That would be senseless.

Also, GOGT scene literally states that the Time Ripples are a residual effect of the Infinity War.

Please now do tells us,
at what point did the Incomplete IG possibly affect an area located outside an Alternate-Universe 1000 Years in the Future?

*edit: Actually, it was across all Time, since Strange used it to return home.

I only recall the struggle for the Incomplete IG via Magus/Warlock.

If you know of another, let me know.

============================

Wow, I can't believe I missed that all this time, I knew it, but couldn't put the pieces in perfect alignment,
now I'm 100% convinced that the Incomplete IG performed a pure Multiversal feat.

That's just beautiful cause it says everything about true Goodhood. (complete IG)

Again, no wonder Starlin had Thanos say he was Supreme over All UniverseS,
no wonder Starlin had the LT come with TOAA's power to challenge Warlock.

No wonder, no wonder, no ... yipee.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, there is an obvious solution to the quandary you gentlemen find yourself in....... 😖hifty:

i tend to agree with whomever has said eresh was powerful enough to pose a challenge to lt. a greater challenge than adam would have? impossible to say since we didn't see either battle, but i think the intent was clear: her vs lt was gonna cause a whole lot of trouble for everything. i think the difference between adam and her is only a few degrees either way. ig has more feats, obviously, so i'd likely go with him, but i don't think it's a sure thing.

as for maelstrom--i think in that arc he was intended to be on par with thanos. we even saw a what if where that was depicted as true as the quasar canon book. again, intent seems clear to me. i was always under the impression that it was the q-bands though that were the major source of his power. he even refers to them as a source of infinite power. i think maybe he was tapping them in a way most don't. at least, without going back to look it up, that was my impression. maybe it's a mis-recollection, but it always sort of fit for me.

The main reason that she was gonna cause a lot of trouble was only due to her exploiting the nexus and that's it. She could never have affected the multiverse without it. And she even needed to congress to affect it significantly. So without those stipulations involved, she couldn't have caused all the trouble.

That alternate version of weak. They were struggling over a sun (for reasons i can't fathom, because frankly, i don't know what's it supposed to do for either of them). Either way, this reality directly diverged from Quasar #24, meaning when Thanos was still not that much experienced with the IG.

Originally posted by leonidas
well, there is an obvious solution to the quandary you gentlemen find yourself in....... 😖hifty:

i tend to agree with whomever has said eresh was powerful enough to pose a challenge to lt. a greater challenge than adam would have? impossible to say since we didn't see either battle, but i think the intent was clear: her vs lt was gonna cause a whole lot of trouble for everything. i think the difference between adam and her is only a few degrees either way. ig has more feats, obviously, so i'd likely go with him, but i don't think it's a sure thing.

as for maelstrom--i think in that arc he was intended to be on par with thanos. we even saw a what if where that was depicted as true as the quasar canon book. again, intent seems clear to me. i was always under the impression that it was the q-bands though that were the major source of his power. he even refers to them as a source of infinite power. i think maybe he was tapping them in a way most don't. at least, without going back to look it up, that was my impression. maybe it's a mis-recollection, but it always sort of fit for me.

Originally posted by operator616

The main reason that she was gonna cause a lot of trouble was only due to her exploiting the nexus and that's it. She could never have affected the multiverse without it. And she even needed to congress to affect it significantly. So without those stipulations involved, she couldn't have caused all the trouble.

That alternate version of weak. They were struggling over a sun (for reasons i can't fathom, because frankly, i don't know what's it supposed to do for either of them). Either way, this reality directly diverged from Quasar #24, meaning when Thanos was still not that much experienced with the IG.

Originally posted by Mr Master

I proved my point with the scans, you had your point and that's that.

Anyway, no different than the arguments made for lucifer's universe made multiverse.

I also proved my point with scans.

And what argument is that? If you're gonna refer to me then you should understand, i fully acknowledge that what Lucifer made could (there could be made arguments from both sides) have been a universe in Lucifer #13. But the original reality, Yahweh's reality, the mainstream Vertigo reality, was also made by Lucifer (also confirmed in a bio) long before he made his personal reality. And that's a confirmed multiverse no doubt. So don't use that against me, to suggest im biased or something.

Originally posted by Mr Master

That would be senseless.

It's also senseless for a universal Eternity/Infinity to beat a power which can easily remake the whole multiverse instantly, don't you think?

Originally posted by Mr Master

Also, GOGT scene literally states that the Time Ripples are a residual effect of the Infinity War.

Please now do tells us,
[b]at what point did the Incomplete IG possibly affect an area located outside an Alternate-Universe 1000 Years in the Future?

*edit: Actually, it was across all Time, since Strange used it to return home.

I only recall the struggle for the Incomplete IG via Magus/Warlock.

If you know of another, let me know.

[/B]

I dunno, it could be a reference to the Moonshade shit that was going on in the Moon Knight tie-ins. Cause that was fully multiversal (traveling across all realities, causing some dimensional warps). Although i doubt it would reference tie-ins, but either way, there's no confirmation that it was Warlock/Magus, so...

Let me put it this way: What you're suggesting is possible, but there's no confirmation, and there are several contradictions.

Originally posted by operator616

Also, before the Warlock/Magus scene, when Magus acquired the IG, it's attributed to changing the fate of an actuality (a universe):

http://i.imgur.com/qucQIb8.jpg?1

Remember these guys who could care less about 616's demise,
an obvious representation of Multiversal embodiments on Starlin's part.

He called them, ... an Actuality!

"Before you stands the embodiment of Actuality"

Hope there isn't another spin coming.

^ Im surprised that i have to explain this to you. I highly doubt you didn't realize this, but okay:

In your Warlock Chronicles #3 scans, it's stated that they are embodiments of actuality. While in the IW #5/Magus scan, it's specified that it changes the fate of an (key word, singular) actuality.

Originally posted by operator616
I also proved my point with scans.

And what argument is that? If you're gonna refer to me then you should understand, i fully acknowledge that what Lucifer made could (there could be made arguments from both sides) have been a universe in Lucifer #13. But the original reality, Yahweh's reality, the mainstream Vertigo reality, was also made by Lucifer (also confirmed in a bio) long before he made his personal reality. And that's a confirmed multiverse no doubt. So don't use that against me, to suggest im biased or something.

Originally posted by operator616

It's also senseless for a universal Eternity/Infinity to beat a power which can easily remake the whole multiverse instantly, don't you think?

Anyway,
I always found it interesting that the Eternity Warlock has a relationship with,
was portrayed as Multiversal during the Infinity Crusade affair:

Dude could care less about the 616 reality: calls it an infinitesimal part of himself.

It's kinda strange that Stralin would portray the same Eternity as universal and then multiversal.

Of course I don't agree with this cause imo the Eternity from Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War was multiversal.
Not to mention the same Writer is portraying the same damn character.

Originally posted by operator616

^ Im surprised that i have to explain this to you.

Your hilarious insult makes you look a like dick though.

Originally posted by operator616

In your Warlock Chronicles #3 scans, it's stated that they are embodiments of actuality. While in the IW #5/Magus scan, it's specified that it changes the fate of an (key word, singular) actuality.

Simple: ... An Entire Actuality ... the embodiments of Actuality.

... uhh, an entire Multiverse ... the embodiments of the Multiverse.

Im surprised that I had to explain this to you. 👆

Originally posted by operator616

I dunno, it could be a reference to the Moonshade shit that was going on in the Moon Knight tie-ins. Cause that was fully multiversal (traveling across all realities, causing some dimensional warps). Although i doubt it would reference tie-ins, but either way, there's no confirmation that it was Warlock/Magus, so...

On the other hand, Warlock/Magus struggle was literally labeled the Infinity War.

Originally posted by operator616

Let me put it this way: What you're suggesting is possible, but there's no confirmation, and there are several contradictions.

Starlin (original) stated it operated across "countless universes."
We have Kavanagh (MoonKnight) follow up on that setting the stage at the "farthest edges of the Multiverse."
Where Reality explodes. (we know 616 was included)
Then to cap it off, we have Gallaguer (GOTG) finalize it by showing us left over affects 1000 years in the Future.
All of Time really since Strange used the ripples to return home 1000 years earlier.

Add it up = truth with proof

Originally posted by Mr Master

Who said Eternity/Infinity merged were universal?

So you're not really paying attention to my post? Here's where i stated why they're universal:

Originally posted by operator616
Not to mention that Eternity/Infinity defeated that IG. It was confirmed later that it was universal Eternity (when he said "this universe" that is I), and the handbooks also support that it was universal versions.

Let's put the scans for those. At the end of Infinity War #6, Eternity says, just like i mentioned in the quote above, "this universe, that is I":

http://i.imgur.com/1ND5olm.jpg?1

Magus' bio/handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/b9BnktU.jpg?1

(read top paragraph, sorry about not editing it, im having problems with editing images currently, for some reason).

And that's right associated with the relevant arc (on panel scan from the relevant arc, and the bio narrating the relevant scene). I don't have to reach into another arc (Infinity Crusade) to prove my point.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Why were two universal aspects taking care of business at the farthest edges of the Multiverse?

Because they were threatening the 616 reality.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Anyway,
I always found it interesting that the Eternity Warlock has a relationship with,
was portrayed as Multiversal during the Infinity Crusade affair:

Dude could care less about the 616 reality: calls it an infinitesimal part of himself.

It's kinda strange that Stralin would portray the same Eternity as universal and then multiversal.

Maybe Starlin upgraded his view on Eternity/Infinity after Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War. He portrayed them as universal in those two arcs, there's absolutely no denying that and you know it.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Of course I don't agree with this cause imo the Eternity from Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War was multiversal.

.....Which is definitely false.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Figure I'd see a spin when there's no way around the facts.

Your hilarious insult makes you look a like dick though.

It's not an insult, at least it wasn't meant to be. I was genuinely surprised that you didn't realize this. Because from where i stand, it's a simple concept to understand. So relax, no need to start with your insults and hostility.

Originally posted by Mr Master

ka-dur .. Try this word play on someone else son.

Simple: ... An Entire Actuality ... the embodiments of Actuality.

... uhh, an entire Multiverse ... the embodiments of the Multiverse.

Im surprised that I had to explain this to you. 👆

If a word is preceded by "an" or "a" it suggests singular.

(....Brings back memories from the 1st grade of school).

While in the Warlock Chronicles scans this wasn't mentioned meaning it could have been referring either to a universe or a multiverse. How do we know which? According to the context of the story, in which case it was the multiverse, as you know, since the arc made that evident.