Adam Warlock w/IG vs Maelstrom w/Anomaly vs Ereshkigal w/S

Originally posted by operator616

So you're not really paying attention to my post? Here's where i stated why they're universal:
Let's put the scans for those. At the end of Infinity War #6, Eternity says, just like i mentioned in the quote above, "this universe, that is I":
http://i.imgur.com/1ND5olm.jpg?1
Magus' bio/handbook:
http://i.imgur.com/b9BnktU.jpg?1

Originally posted by operator616

And that's right associated with the relevant arc (on panel scan from the relevant arc, and the bio narrating the relevant scene). I don't have to reach into another arc (Infinity Crusade) to prove my point.

That about right for ya?
We only disagree in terms of whether Eternity/Infinity were multiversal or not.

Originally posted by operator616

Because they were threatening the 616 reality.

Which makes sense since their battle operated across Countless UniverseS:

Originally posted by operator616

Maybe Starlin upgraded his view on Eternity/Infinity after Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity War. He portrayed them as universal in those two arcs, there's absolutely no denying that and you know it.

Originally posted by operator616

.....Which is definitely false.

Originally posted by operator616

It's not an insult, at least it wasn't meant to be. I was genuinely surprised that you didn't realize this. Because from where i stand, it's a simple concept to understand. So relax, no need to start with your insults and hostility.

Just don't try and come at me like your comprehension level is any where above mine.

From where I stand it's quite simple too, but I don't call you an idiot for not getting it.

Originally posted by operator616

If a word is preceded by "an" or "a" it suggests singular.

(....Brings back memories from the 1st grade of school).

Originally posted by operator616

While in the Warlock Chronicles scans this wasn't mentioned meaning it could have been referring either to a universe or a multiverse. How do we know which? According to the context of the story, in which case it was the multiverse, as you know, since the arc made that evident.

Cool beans.

Anyway, this circle has now got me hungry for my burger and soda within my lunch box,
so, I'll leave you to differentiating a term, like:
There's A car, and there's The car, somehow means different amounts of cars. lol

Originally posted by operator616
The main reason that she was gonna cause a lot of trouble was only due to her exploiting the nexus and that's it. She could never have affected the multiverse without it. And she even needed to congress to affect it significantly. So without those stipulations involved, she couldn't have caused all the trouble.

That alternate version of weak. They were struggling over a sun (for reasons i can't fathom, because frankly, i don't know what's it supposed to do for either of them). Either way, this reality directly diverged from Quasar #24, meaning when Thanos was still not that much experienced with the IG.

perhaps that was the reason she was going to be trouble, but it has nothing to do with the inferred power she possessed--namely, power that was enough to give lt pause. there was no noticeable difference in the diffidence shown eresh by lt when compared with that shown to adam. at best, we can say he considered both something very significant. starbrand was also clearly multiversal--a better showing scope-wise than the ig had unless we take into account the black october nonsense.....

the lack of experience by thanos is a bit of a cop-out imo. and while it's true stuggling over a sun is dumb as sh!t, lt's ultimate attack has been shown to be making a sun go supernova, so, meh. it did show their comparative levels however, as viewed by the author--which was in accordance with what was previously shown. that makes 2 pieces of evidence suggesting they WERE peers, vs none that suggest thanos was so much greater. did thanos become more powerful as time went by? it's possible i guess. what proof is there to make said assumption? or was it posted already and i just need to read back some pages?

anyway, i think it's mostly impossible to compare the 2 because clearly there was some form of difference of opinion when it came to thanos within the ranks of marvel. the quasar camp didn't think as highly of him as others did. that doesn't make their opinion less accurate--we just use a different measuring stick imho.

Originally posted by leonidas

perhaps that was the reason she was going to be trouble, but it has nothing to do with the inferred power she possessed--namely, power that was enough to give lt pause. there was no noticeable difference in the diffidence shown eresh by lt when compared with that shown to adam. at best, we can say he considered both something very significant. starbrand was also clearly multiversal--a better showing scope-wise than the ig had unless we take into account the black october nonsense.....

When it's greatest feat is a global one.

That aside, Erishkigel was a complete no body before entering the Nexus.
She expended vast amounts of energy to open a dimensional portal,
something Thor does for lulz.

Originally posted by leonidas

the lack of experience by thanos is a bit of a cop-out imo. and while it's true stuggling over a sun is dumb as sh!t, lt's ultimate attack has been shown to be making a sun go supernova, so, meh. it did show their comparative levels however, as viewed by the author--which was in accordance with what was previously shown. that makes 2 pieces of evidence suggesting they WERE peers, vs none that suggest thanos was so much greater. did thanos become more powerful as time went by? it's possible i guess. what proof is there to make said assumption? or was it posted already and i just need to read back some pages?

anyway, i think it's mostly impossible to compare the 2 because clearly there was some form of difference of opinion when it came to thanos within the ranks of marvel. the quasar camp didn't think as highly of him as others did. that doesn't make their opinion less accurate--we just use a different measuring stick imho.

While Thanos curbstomped Infinity's equal.

That, imo, says it all true debater.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey there Leo, curious as to how you saw the Starbrand as "multiversal."

When it's greatest feat is a global one.

That aside, Erishkigel was a complete no body before entering the Nexus.
She expended vast amounts of energy to open a dimensional portal,
something Thor does for lulz.

Maelstrom (amped and merged with Oblivion) got stalemated by an Infinity powered Quasar.
Maelstrom never exercised universal influence and in fact, needed circumstances to do so.

While Thanos curbstomped Infinity's equal.

That, imo, says it all true debater.

well the sb was the greatest power in the new uni, and it retained its powers here. def implies multiversal regardless of how you define multiverse imo.

and i agree with some of your opinion regarding her--she was really not all that impressive in some regards--i DO think you need to take into account the way the editorial people of quasar viewed power in general. it was in quasar where 'ultimate speed' was barely the speed of light don't forget. i think the only really telling point of power for her was lt himself. imo, no one really demonstrated massive power in the quasar series. even when quasar fought anomaly it was a black hole that was the major crisis. meaningless, until one realizes that said black hole couldn't be closed by the collection of celestials or the other cosmics..... so, not just a 'normal' black hole, clearly. and it was going to devour a universe WITH thanos in it. could be have resisted it? maybe, but it was clearly intended to be a threat on par with what thanos was--at least in the eyes of the people at quasar imo.

i don't think it a coincidence that both malestrom and eresh appeared in quasar, were intended to be uber cosmic threat and that neither have the uber feats thanos has. i don't think that necessarily devalues them--it was just the way relative power was expressed by different people at marvel. that's why i don't the best way to compare these 3 is via feats. we saw each in comparison to lt, and we saw thanos and mal in relation to each other. based on those comparisons and ONLY those, they were all relatively close imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Interchangeable terms. Nice.

You can't be serious.

"this universe" is interchangeably with the multiverse??

Originally posted by Mr Master

So universal Eternity/Infinity defeated Magus after he struggled with Warlock across the Multiverse,
then apparently the Multiverse exploded since reality exploded at the farthest edges of the Multiverse and the 616 reality was part of this reality ending,
then Warlock fixed it all with a snap.

That about right for ya?
We only disagree in terms of whether Eternity/Infinity were multiversal or not.

First off, do you agree or disagree that they were universal? Seems to me that your basis regarding Eternity/Infinity being multiversal in IG and IW is.....nothing.

Not how it works. The writer would either portray both of them universal or both of them multiversal. It wouldn't make sense for w universal powers to defeat a casual multiversal power. In which case, the stronger evidence suggests that they were universal, imo.

Originally posted by Mr Master

They were threatening the Entire Multiverse:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/18604313/Yea.jpg.html

Which makes sense since their battle operated across Countless UniverseS:

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/18604314/IG_beyond_universe_7.jpg.html

..And there we go again....

They were threatening the universe, only:

http://i.imgur.com/HADIfo8.jpg?1

Originally posted by Mr Master

I disagree.

Which I definitely disagree with.

Well that's unfortunate for you. Because i think you know very well that you're gonna get definitely proven wrong on this one. Let's start:

Infinity Gauntlet

Eternity says, he is the actuality that Thanos wants to usurp (specifying that he's the specific reality, 616, that Thanos wanted to usurp):

http://i.imgur.com/wlF792a.jpg?1

Then when Thanos faces Eternity, he specifically says who's gonna control this reality:

http://i.imgur.com/UeoF3eM.jpg?1

Blcokbusters of MU confirms it's a universe:

http://i.imgur.com/n3X5upM.jpg?1

Marvel Legacy's confirms as well (there are more, but this should suffice):

http://i.imgur.com/EQHi426.jpg?1

in Warlock & the Infinity Watch #1, Eternity specifically says that he is the embodiment of all there is, in this reality:

http://i.imgur.com/CkSBLuU.jpg?1

Note: Im not even posting the scans where Eternity is regarded as embodying "the" universe, im only posting those which outright say "this" or "that" universe. So let's settle this.

Infinity War:

Eternity...the embodiment of all there is in this universe:

http://i.imgur.com/PJoIDrW.jpg?1

Gamora (when she was used by Galactus to save Eternity), Galactus indirectly refers to Eternity as "my reality":

http://i.imgur.com/TeOB4Xt.jpg?1

Now, answer me this:

If Eternity was really supposed to be the embodiment of the multiverse (as if literally everything poiting towards it being universal, isn't enough) then why the hell did Agamotto reply "your universe not mine" when Strange said that the whole universe is in danger as a result of Eternity being catatonic? Because according to you, Agamotto's pocket realm should be part of Eternity, since Eternity is the embodiment of the multiverse, right?

http://i.imgur.com/TH4LVAW.jpg?1
http://i.imgur.com/7AjH9m0.jpg?1

Id definitely want to hear you answer that one.

At the end of Infinity War #6, Eternity says, "this universe, that is I":

http://i.imgur.com/1ND5olm.jpg?1

Magus' bio/handbook:

http://i.imgur.com/b9BnktU.jpg?1

So......you still disagree?

Originally posted by Mr Master
There ya go, so when it suits you a term has two meanings, but when it does not, the term is absolute.

😂

what is it, like the 10 000th time on the forum someone makes a claim for what is and isn't intended by marvel's terminology.....?

occam's razor my friend, occam's razor.....

Originally posted by Mr Master

There ya go, so when it suits you a term has two meanings, but when it does not, the term is absolute.

Cool beans.

Anyway, this circle has now got me hungry for my burger and soda within my lunch box,
so, I'll leave you to differentiating a term, like:
There's A car, and there's The car, somehow means different amounts of cars. lol

Are you kidding me? "when it suits me"? I explained exactly why in the Warlock Chronicles scans it refers to the multiverse. Read carefully next time.

Given that it wasn't preceded by "a" or "an" it may refer to, either a universe or a multiverse. We determine which by knowing the context of the story, which tells us that it refers to the multiverse not the universe.

Does that explanation sound to you like im picking the definition based on when "it suits me"?

Also, in the IW "an actuality" was used several times to refer to individual realities. Two examples:

http://i.imgur.com/iPvdCxG.jpg?1

http://i.imgur.com/2lNPWVC.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

what is it, like the 10 000th time on the forum someone makes a claim for what is and isn't intended by marvel's terminology.....?

occam's razor my friend, occam's razor.....

Originally posted by leonidas
perhaps that was the reason she was going to be trouble, but it has nothing to do with the inferred power she possessed--namely, power that was enough to give lt pause. there was no noticeable difference in the diffidence shown eresh by lt when compared with that shown to adam. at best, we can say he considered both something very significant. starbrand was also clearly multiversal--a better showing scope-wise than the ig had unless we take into account the black october nonsense.....

the lack of experience by thanos is a bit of a cop-out imo. and while it's true stuggling over a sun is dumb as sh!t, lt's ultimate attack has been shown to be making a sun go supernova, so, meh. it did show their comparative levels however, as viewed by the author--which was in accordance with what was previously shown. that makes 2 pieces of evidence suggesting they WERE peers, vs none that suggest thanos was so much greater. did thanos become more powerful as time went by? it's possible i guess. what proof is there to make said assumption? or was it posted already and i just need to read back some pages?

anyway, i think it's mostly impossible to compare the 2 because clearly there was some form of difference of opinion when it came to thanos within the ranks of marvel. the quasar camp didn't think as highly of him as others did. that doesn't make their opinion less accurate--we just use a different measuring stick imho.

Well, the fact that she wanted to exploit the nexus is part of the reason of why she gave LT pause. Otherwise, she was merely a potential peer to the abstracts, not more. Also, Starbrand being multiversal contradicts everything in the story. Ereshkigal sought a nexus and the congress to affect the multiverse. Why go through all this trouble if she could've just done it on her own? .....it doesn't make sense. Im sure you'll agree on that one.

While Quasar #24 was happening, the IG saga had just begun (the main arc, i mean). He only previously had experience with it in a few issues of Silver Surfer and an issue of Cloak and Dagger prior to the IG arc. So he was inexperienced. Possibly, yeah. Gruenwald didn't see Thanos as being that high in the cosmic hierarchy (along with his inexperience). And especially considering that by the time of Quasar #24, Thanos hadn't fought any abstracts, or usurped Eternity. So there's that as well.

Originally posted by operator616
So......you still disagree?

Again:

Originally posted by Mr Master

So universal Eternity/Infinity defeated Magus after he struggled with Warlock across the Multiverse,
then apparently the Multiverse exploded since reality exploded at the farthest edges of the Multiverse and the 616 reality was part of this reality ending,
then Warlock fixed it all with a snap.

That about right for ya?
We only disagree in terms of whether Eternity/Infinity were multiversal or not.

Originally posted by operator616
Well, the fact that she wanted to exploit the nexus is part of the reason of why she gave LT pause. Otherwise, she was merely a potential peer to the abstracts, not more. Also, Starbrand being multiversal contradicts everything in the story. Ereshkigal sought a nexus and the congress to affect the multiverse. Why go through all this trouble if she could've just done it on her own? .....it doesn't make sense. Im sure you'll agree on that one.

While Quasar #24 was happening, the IG saga had just begun (the main arc, i mean). He only previously had experience with it in a few issues of Silver Surfer and an issue of Cloak and Dagger prior to the IG arc. So he was inexperienced. Possibly, yeah. Gruenwald didn't see Thanos as being that high in the cosmic hierarchy (along with his inexperience). And especially considering that by the time of Quasar #24, Thanos hadn't fought any abstracts, or usurped Eternity. So there's that as well.

Also, she didn't care much for the Nexus Beings telling them to join her or get out the way. She later incinerated those that didn't submit with a gesture.

Originally posted by operator616

Are you kidding me? "when it suits me"? I explained exactly why in the Warlock Chronicles scans it refers to the multiverse. Read carefully next time.
Given that it wasn't preceded by "a" or "an" it may refer to, either a universe or a multiverse. We determine which by knowing the context of the story, which tells us that it refers to the multiverse not the universe.
Does that explanation sound to you like im picking the definition based on when "it suits me"?

They blew up the 616r reality from the farthest reaches of the Multiverse.

So, it seems in yur opinion, that somehow, from way over there, only 616 was affected.

I disagree, but oh well. (especially since Reality exploded way over there)

^ Im not purposely ignoring anything, im merely looking at the whole picture.

But if im "purposely ignoring" that Moon Knight statement, then i can likewise say that you're "purposely ignoring" the Maelstrom encounter by saying it was PIS or something.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Yea. Been there, done that. I know all those scans well, I been posting them for years.

Again:

👆

.....

I ask you if you still disagree that they're multiversal, you reply by "yea" which suggests that you still think they're multiversal (without any counters, not that there is one). And then go on and post a quote where you agree that they are universal versions? What the hell am i missing here?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yet Thanos had the IG longer than Erishkigal had the Starbrand. She literally acquired it one issue prior and then went on her little rampage.

Also, she didn't care much for the Nexus Beings telling them to join her or get out the way. She later incinerated those that didn't submit with a gesture.

Don't see the relevance of this.

Not sure what's the point of this. We know that the congress members are well below the abstracts, because they're their puppets. So Ereshkigal obliterating a group of them doesn't sound that impressive. She also evidently cared since she recruited some of them to combine with their energies. If her power dwarfed theirs, she would have obliterated all of them, regardless whether they were willing to join her or not.

Originally posted by operator616
Well, the fact that she wanted to exploit the nexus is part of the reason of why she gave LT pause. Otherwise, she was merely a potential peer to the abstracts, not more. Also, Starbrand being multiversal contradicts everything in the story. Ereshkigal sought a nexus and the congress to affect the multiverse. Why go through all this trouble if she could've just done it on her own? .....it doesn't make sense. Im sure you'll agree on that one.

While Quasar #24 was happening, the IG saga had just begun (the main arc, i mean). He only previously had experience with it in a few issues of Silver Surfer and an issue of Cloak and Dagger prior to the IG arc. So he was inexperienced. Possibly, yeah. Gruenwald didn't see Thanos as being that high in the cosmic hierarchy (along with his inexperience). And especially considering that by the time of Quasar #24, Thanos hadn't fought any abstracts, or usurped Eternity. So there's that as well.

well, just because the sb was multiversal doesn't necessarily mean she could affect the entire mutliverse at once. i don't think that type of power has ever been demonstrated by anyone, ever in marvel. we know though that her power WOULD have affected all those other universes, again supporting the notion of the multiversal nature of her power. the scope is certainly multiversal, the depth of her power is a question however and again, to that point, i think we only have her interaction with lt to use as a clue and to me, it was clearly intimated that, despite her showings feat-wise, she was a very serious threat in and of herself. lt only took action because of her intent, but the reason for his intervention doesn't reflect on her personal power. by that i mean even if she was his EQUAL in power, but meant no harm, lt would have ignored her. that he intervened and showed some concern about his ability to dispatch her easily is the best gauge of her power. imo.

you and mrm may be right about his inexperience playing a role. imo it is the lesser role though and it had more to do with the view taken of each character by the people at quasar.

Originally posted by operator616
Not sure what's the point of this. We know that the congress members are well below the abstracts, because they're their puppets. So Ereshkigal obliterating a group of them doesn't sound that impressive. She also evidently cared since she recruited some of them to combine with their energies. If her power dwarfed theirs, she would have obliterated all of them, regardless whether they were willing to join her or not.

And like you say, those Congress Members weren't abstract they were barely herald level since Surfer dispatched one of them on his way to the Nexus. So their power input couldn't have been anything significant.

Originally posted by operator616

^ Im not purposely ignoring anything, im merely looking at the whole picture.

Originally posted by operator616

But if im "purposely ignoring" that Moon Knight statement, then i can likewise say that you're "purposely ignoring" the Maelstrom encounter by saying it was PIS or something.

Thanos was not allowed to wipe the floor with Maelstrom cause that was Quasar's job,
in his Quasar book,
where Quasar is the hero.

Originally posted by operator616

I ask you if you still disagree that they're multiversal, you reply by "yea" which suggests that you still think they're multiversal (without any counters, not that there is one). And then go on and post a quote where you agree that they are universal versions? What the hell am i missing here?

In mine, the reason ET/IN popped up at the edge of the Multiverse,
is cause all of space-time joined to take down Magus.
Magus was unbalanced at this point due to the struggle,
this is why Warlock waited for the right moment to unleash the power of all on his ass.

Originally posted by leonidas
well the sb was the greatest power in the new uni, and it retained its powers here. def implies multiversal regardless of how you define multiverse imo.

Originally posted by leonidas

and i agree with some of your opinion regarding her--she was really not all that impressive in some regards--i DO think you need to take into account the way the editorial people of quasar viewed power in general. it was in quasar where 'ultimate speed' was barely the speed of light don't forget. i think the only really telling point of power for her was lt himself. imo, no one really demonstrated massive power in the quasar series. even when quasar fought anomaly it was a black hole that was the major crisis. meaningless, until one realizes that said black hole couldn't be closed by the collection of celestials or the other cosmics..... so, not just a 'normal' black hole, clearly. and it was going to devour a universe WITH thanos in it. could be have resisted it? maybe, but it was clearly intended to be a threat on par with what thanos was--at least in the eyes of the people at quasar imo.

i don't think it a coincidence that both malestrom and eresh appeared in quasar, were intended to be uber cosmic threat and that neither have the uber feats thanos has. i don't think that necessarily devalues them--it was just the way relative power was expressed by different people at marvel. that's why i don't the best way to compare these 3 is via feats. we saw each in comparison to lt, and we saw thanos and mal in relation to each other. based on those comparisons and ONLY those, they were all relatively close imo.

Although I don't think they were close: IG and the others that is.
Also, the Quasar drama was not recognized by any other title that I know of.
So the universe Thanos was in getting taken by that black hole is like a monkey wrench of senselessness. (not you the book)

Uatu never mentioned any of that during the Thanos drama and he was supposedly at both sides.
At-least Thanos made a cameo in the Quasar book. 😛

Originally posted by zopzop
The point is, she could have easily killed them all. The only reason she didn't kill the rest is because they joined her willingly. She saw herself as a multiversal liberator, freeing the "little guy" from the control of uncaring omnipotents. She even offered to take Kayla along with her but Kayla refused.

And like you say, those Congress Members weren't abstract they were barely herald level since Surfer dispatched one of them on his way to the Nexus. So their power input couldn't have been anything significant.

Also, without the Nexus, she wasn't going to ever be "multiversal."
Since she never displayed any reason for me to think she was "universal," she wasn't that either.

For whatever stupid reason, once in the Nexus, everything changed. Kinda funny if you ask me.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Zop, without the Congress, Erishkigel wasn't accomplishing anything.
Regardless of any shenanigans going on this was literally stated.
That was integral to her plan. It wasn't just "cosmic Mandela" aspirations.

Also, without the Nexus, she wasn't going to ever be "multiversal."
Since she never displayed any reason for me to think she was "universal," she wasn't that either.

For whatever stupid reason, once in the Nexus, everything changed. Kinda funny if you ask me.

Think about it, if location was the LT's only concern, forcibly MOVE her out of it and then wreck her.

Not only that, she was fondling Order and Chaos like a power drunk pedophile right in the LT's grill and he couldn't stop her or reverse her actions.