Originally posted by Intrepid37
If he beat the Emperor's Voice, is he better than Vitiate?Other than that, Wrath is skilled and powerful and all, but I see nothing to put him on Dooku's level.
1. Nah, the emperor had sel makor screwing In his head. But sel makor was actively trying to kill the wrath so...
2. If defeating an immensely powerful Sith Lord that's amped by two powerful entities can't put the wrath on dooku's level, I honestly don't know what does.
Because nothing the game mechanic Sith have done compares with what Dooku has accomplished? That and the fact that TOR and SWTOR shit out carbon copies of the exact same Sith with the exact same powers, exact same dubious feats, and near hyperbolic quotes make them not even remotely close to Dooku. Why did you pick this match out of curiosity?
Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
1. Nah, the emperor had sel makor screwing In his head. But sel makor was actively trying to kill the wrath so...2. If defeating an immensely powerful Sith Lord that's amped by two powerful entities can't put the wrath on dooku's level, I honestly don't know what does.
Originally posted by carthage
Because nothing the game mechanic Sith have done compares with what Dooku has accomplished? That and the fact that TOR and SWTOR shit out carbon copies of the exact same Sith with the exact same powers, exact same dubious feats, and near hyperbolic quotes make them not even remotely close to Dooku. Why did you pick this match out of curiosity?
None of this has anything to do with their respective power levels. So what if TOR shits out carbon copies? Absolutely nothing to do with power. And the feats of baras are accomplished in comics and cutscenes, not game mechanics.
If ur gonna argue against the wrath, don't bring up all the wrong reasons.
Dooku takes this guy. His lightsaber abilities are stated to be one of the best in history, and he was even the superior to Mace, and able to hold his own against Yoda, which eclipses anything the Wrath has done. Next thread.
Wrath has defeated some of the best Jedi and Sith of the time.
He is superior to Windu.
"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."
Source: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible—wickedness cut in red light."
Source: Yoda: Dark Rendezvous
Originally posted by Intrepid37
K.Also, the argument could be made that all of the TOR game characters are depicted stronger than they actually are since no gamer likes to play with weaker characters. So in reality, they might be around averge PT Council level here.
You realize that the TOR devs confirmed that the PCs are specifically the strongest of their respective roles, right? Like the Sith Sorcerer is a peerless Force user or the Bounty Hunter is the best in the galaxy. Regulating them to mere council level because of both bias and ignorance is pretty loltastic.
Originally posted by DarthAnt
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
Though Dooku has beat him in the past, it doesn't mean Windu never catches or surpasses him.
Originally posted by Q99
[quote="DarthAnt"]
"Master Windu himself remained perfectly balanced and centered. In the history of the Jedi Order, only two opponents ever overcame him in battle. One was Master Yoda, who some said was the Order's true master of lightsaber combat. The other was former Master Dooku, whose own fighting style was archaic, yet stunningly effective."
Source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook
Though Dooku has beat him in the past, it doesn't mean Windu never catches or surpasses him. [/QUOTE]
There's stronger evidence that Dooku became more powerful though.
"This is Dooku, Darth Tyranus, Count of Serenno:
Once a great Jedi Master, now an even greater Lord of the Sith"
"I have become more powerful than any Jedi...even you"
"Powerful, you have become, Dooku. The dark side, I sense in you."
"The Count's blade was quick as a viper striking. Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground."
On the other hand the argument that Mace got stronger was due to the theory that he had developed Vaapad in between TPM and AOTCs. This is incorrect. Cin Draalig prevented both Anakin and Obi-Wan from studying Vaapad (not Juyo, Vaapad) when they began their blade studies. This suggests its been an established style since at least around TPM, if not around the time Kenobi began his studies.
Originally posted by Q99
"I have become more powerful than any Jedi...even you"Note how he was wrong about that.
Darksiders often underestimate how strong Jedi can get.
The point was that Yoda reaffirms that Dooku has become more powerful than when he left the Order.
"Powerful, you have become, Dooku. The dark side, I sense in you."
The Sidious fight, I'd say.He did something there that Dooku could not.
Mace is a better match up against Sidious because he's the embodiment of the Dark Side.
Also I don't think its impossible for Dooku to defeat Sidious in a sabers only match. (Eh maybe, kinda 50/50 on this)
My impression has been that every depiction has been with Dooku and Windu as equals. Dooku holds no advantage with his lightning nor his TK and in terms of sheer lightsaber combat the two are tied. Even if Dookus lightsaber skills are superior, Windu possesses Shatterpoint. Windu is the man who defeated Darth Sidious, I cannot see him losing to Count Dooku in a straight duel.
Lol @ Dooku beating Sidious in a lightsaber duel though.
As to this thread, the Warrior defeated the Beast of Marka Ragnos as an acolyte. The Beast was a Tarentatek dangerous enough that in 1300 years none had looked upon it and lived and powerful enough that it released a wave of darkside energy upon its death. The Warrior defeated such a beast as a mere acolyte.
Soon after the Warrior would defeat the greatest teacher the Jedi have and the most skilled duelist the man had ever taught, at the same time. Yonlach himself was powerful enough to casually wipe his students memory and send him to sleep with a wave of his hand. He's a legendary and extremely powerful Jedi Master. Again bare in mind that the Warrior was still only an apprentice.
Again shortly after that, the Warrior defeats Jedi Master Nomen Karr. Nomen Karr once "destroyed" Darth Ekkage and sent her to Belsavis prison. Ekkage is a Dark Council member who could one-shot Sith Lords and was "one of the greatest Sith assassins to ever live." As the Wrath, the Warrior would defeat her too. Anyway, this proves that Nomen Karr is a powerful Jedi Master. Impressively the Warrior defeats him 3 times in a row and then defeats his padawan as well. Karr taps into the darkside deeply in this duel, but it still can't help him faze the Warrior at all. The Warrior was still an apprentice at this time.
Then the Wrath defeats a super wardroid powered by, ridiculously, the ashes of the people killed by Darth Malaks bombardment of Taris. Whatever, apparently it boosts a power source 10 times as powerful as normal, so this droid is kind of a big deal.
The Wrath then defeats Darth Vengean, a Dark Council member who was prepping for the fight, Darth Ekkage, the Emperor's Voice possessed by Sel Makor and Lord Draahg. Draahg was powerful enough to one-shot Darth Vowrawn, a Dark Council member so he's pretty damn good.
And lastly they defeat Darth Baras, a Sith Lord powerful enough to cow the rest of the Dark Council into believing or going along with the lie that he housed the Emperors will and power. Baras was amped by Sel Makor and was considered nigh indestructible. He has a bunch of other feats listed on the first page.
At this point the Wrath is considered above the Council and they freely bow to his authority.
These are all pretty ****ing good victories and indicate that the Wrath is one of the greatest Sith in history. Definitely a good fight for the Count, but imo he takes it. Dooku is powerful, but I don't think he could cow the Dark Council like Baras did, nor defeat Sel Makor in the Voice.