Originally posted by Time Immemorial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fictionI don't see it.
Gothic fiction would be Underworld.
MoS wasn't gothic, but it was unnecessarily dark, bland and joyless. Gothic can actually be good when done right.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fictionI don't see it.
Gothic fiction would be Underworld.
MoS wasn't gothic, but it was unnecessarily dark, bland and joyless. Gothic can actually be good when done right.
Originally posted by Firefly218
That feeling of joy was elicited via plot. I'm talking about the tone of the movie, which is unnecessarily dark and joyless. Of course that's also IMO.
Oh, I know, I was teasing.
I won't deny that the movie was darker than it should have been, but I disagree that it was joyless.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_fictionI don't see it.
Gothic fiction would be Underworld.
I agree with that, then lets just call this version of superman much darker then the previous ones. Some people liked it and some didn't.
Originally posted by zeel
I agree with that, then lets just call this version of superman much darker then the previous ones. Some people liked it and some didn't.
I feel you man, I thought the same thing when I watched it the first time, but then I watched it a few more times and it actually felt more like home then the previous ones.
I never saw much connection between between Martha, Jonathan and Jor El to Clark, in this one, we see a lot of connection. They cared for their son deeply.
Laura and Jor found the one place their son could survive and they would not have to worry about him being hurt.
Johnathon was so careful in protecting his secret he gave his life for it.
Its hard to develop a Superman because thats just it, he has to be Superman.
How to add to a character or persona without taking away his core values but making him a different style we never seen before without losing the S that stands for hope.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Johnathon was so careful in protecting his secret he gave his life for it.How to add to a character or persona without taking away his core values but making him a different style we never seen before without losing the S that stands for hope.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm a father myself & from that perspective I can see that Jonathon DID love Clark but he was too over-protective & in some scenes could've easily been mistaken that he was also ashamed of Clark being different.
I mean I want to prepare my son for the hardships in life ahead not hide him from it. Nor would I ingrain into my son that being different is wrong.
Jonathon hinting that a busload of dead kids was worth Clark keeping his secret was a wrong message to instill into him.
Jonathon watching Clark get bullied & not even stepping in was wrong...I don't think my son would have much respect for me if I just stood there & watched him get victimised.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I understand where you're coming from, but I'm a father myself & from that perspective I can see that Jonathon DID love Clark but he was too over-protective & in some scenes could've easily been mistaken that he was also ashamed of Clark being different.I mean I want to prepare my son for the hardships in life ahead not hide him from it. Nor would I ingrain into my son that being different is wrong.
Jonathon hinting that a busload of dead kids was worth Clark keeping his secret was a wrong message to instill into him.
Jonathon watching Clark get bullied & not even stepping in was wrong...I don't think my son would have much respect for me if I just stood there & watched him get victimised.
Good point, him getting bullied could have been character building because Jon knew he could not be hurt. The bully would have hit him and prolly broke his hand, if Clark hit back, the kid would have died. It also lead to a friendship with Pete.
Later we see Clark walking away from a fight in the famous bar scene but getting his revenge on his truck.
The bus scene Clark knew what he had to do and got it done. His dad might have though one thing, but Clark knew what had to be done.
Jon and Martha were in uncharted territory and doing the best they could, not knowing what the right situation or right thing to do at all times.
Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Good point, him getting bullied could have been character building because Jon knew he could not be hurt. The bully would have hit him and prolly broke his hand, if Clark hit back, the kid would have died. It also lead to a friendship with Pete.Later we see Clark walking away from a fight in the famous bar scene but getting his revenge on his truck.
I didn't expect Clark to "super" pound the bullies in retaliation but as the truck revenge scene showed, Clark had a wicked sense of humour when it came to retribution....he could've easily used super speed or heat vision from a distance to get back at them.
It would've made a nice bonding scene to see Jonathon & Clark chuckle about it afterwards...
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I didn't expect Clark to "super" pound the bullies in retaliation but as the truck revenge scene showed, Clark had a wicked sense of humour when it came to retribution....he could've easily used super speed or heat vision from a distance to get back at them.It would've made a nice bonding scene to see Jonathon & Clark chuckle about it afterwards...
You revealed a flaw! They never used him running in super speed as boy. They did in the previous movies, but not this one 😉
With the whole Jonathan thing, I honestly felt like they were trying to paint him as someone that really didn't know what he was doing. He was trying to raise the most powerful being on Earth, and protect him at the same time. He had to have been incredibly paranoid, and when that was balanced with his inexperience, I don't think it was that badly done.
Sure, there were a couple of moments that were iffy, but in general, I thought it made sense.
Originally posted by -Pr-
With the whole Jonathan thing, I honestly felt like they were trying to paint him as someone that really didn't know what he was doing. He was trying to raise the most powerful being on Earth, and protect him at the same time. He had to have been incredibly paranoid, and when that was balanced with his inexperience, I don't think it was that badly done.
But that's both the point & the contradiction.
MOS wasn't about Jonathon's parenting skills or lack off, it was supposed to be about what Clark learnt about humanity through his "foster" parents. And unfortunately the only thing that was reinforced in Clark's childhood upbringing was that he was different & that was wrong.
I mean with Batman, we're constantly reminded how the brutal loss of his parents moulded the Dark Knight. This should always be the same with Superman, that the love & guidance of his parents would forever guide him in his decisions of good vs evil.
Originally posted by zeel
Did anyone else think that the relationship between clark and lois was rushed? It was like they met and almost right away they were in a romantic relationship with each other.
The relationship between Clark and Lois has always been a little weird in all films and showings. It took years for them to make the right fit even in the show smallville, even then it never felt as good as Clark and Lana.
Originally posted by NephthysGood movie romances set-up a timeframe of "a good while" before the relationship is made believable. Man of Steel did not do that.
Its not as if they're in love. Its not really any more rushed than if I run into a girl a few times, we start going out then we kiss once. That's all that really happened. They're attracted to each other and make out. Thats pretty standard movie romance imo.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
I didn't expect Clark to "super" pound the bullies in retaliation but as the truck revenge scene showed, Clark had a wicked sense of humour when it came to retribution....he could've easily used super speed or heat vision from a distance to get back at them.It would've made a nice bonding scene to see Jonathon & Clark chuckle about it afterwards...
I hated that truck scene. Supes was getting all pissy and butthurt at this lonely inebriated trucker, and then proceeds to undoubtedly ruin the guys life by destroying his company owned truck. When he fell trying to push Clark, I was expecting Supes to offer his hand to help him up and ask the waitress if he could lay down somewhere. Instead he gets mad at this guy who poses zero threat to him. Really petty and unheroic behavior.
He showed better restraint as a kid and he wasn't even aware of his full powerset. Really poor character regression just get to get a cheap laugh.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
But that's both the point & the contradiction.
MOS wasn't about Jonathon's parenting skills or lack off, it was supposed to be about what Clark learnt about humanity through his "foster" parents. And unfortunately the only thing that was reinforced in Clark's childhood upbringing was that he was different & that was wrong.I mean with Batman, we're constantly reminded how the brutal loss of his parents moulded the Dark Knight. This should always be the same with Superman, that the love & guidance of his parents would forever guide him in his decisions of good vs evil.
Not sure I agree.
Why was it "supposed to be" anything?
Martha was the one that did the emotional stuff. Jonathan, even with his faults, made it obvious, at least to me, that he believed Clark was destined for great things. Better things than living in Smallville.
I'm not going to pretend that it's as positive as his relationship in say, the comics, but it's not exactly without precedence. Jonathan even flat out tells Clark during the rocket scene that he's his son no matter what.
I honestly think that it was a more realistic take than we're used to, and that might take some time to come to fruition. Not saying it's perfect, just that I can understand why they went that way.
Originally posted by Lestov16
I hated that truck scene. Supes was getting all pissy and butthurt at this lonely inebriated trucker, and then proceeds to undoubtedly ruin the guys life by destroying his company owned truck. When he fell trying to push Clark, I was expecting Supes to offer his hand to help him up and ask the waitress if he could lay down somewhere. Instead he gets mad at this guy who poses zero threat to him. Really petty and unheroic behavior.He showed better restraint as a kid and he wasn't even aware of his full powerset. Really poor character regression just get to get a cheap laugh.
The dude was a dick. **** him. 😛