Time Trapper wins (just so we're clear: Mordru is comparable to the TT, but not his exact equal) since he's capable of creating universes, manipulating all timelines simultaneously (which had a permanent affect btw, this is important) , being beyond the multiverse, being the embodiment of the actual entropy, etc.., etc...
Originally posted by operator616
Time Trapper wins (just so we're clear: Mordru is comparable to the TT, but not his exact equal) since he's capable of creating universes, manipulating all timelines simultaneously (which had a permanent affect btw, this is important) , being beyond the multiverse, being the embodiment of the actual entropy, etc.., etc...
Mordru has created multiple pocket universes at once, though. Don't know where you place that.
Originally posted by operator616
You mean in the Justice Society arc? I remember him doubting that he created those 8 pockets, i don't think he created them. Ill recheck the scene.
Yeah, I don't remember him doubting himself, but I could be wrong. Astro from another board brought up that he created those realities, so...
Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, I don't remember him doubting himself, but I could be wrong. Astro from another board brought up that he created those realities, so...
Well, here it is, from issue #35:
http://i.imgur.com/kT5W313.jpg
He asks whether he created them or if they already exist. No confirmation that he created them as far as im concerned.
--------------
But to answer your question: in LOSH v4 #4 time Trapper actually warped all timelines so that when the LOSH time travel to "superboy"'s timeline which was in the 1930s until Superboy v1 #171 changed it into 1950s, they end up in his own pocket dimension:
http://i.imgur.com/HXhBws1.jpg
That, imo, is a more beastly feat than creating even pocket universes (which TT himself has done). Since it had a permanent effect. Not to mention that the TT operates outside the multiverse, him being unaffected by the crisis is specifically attributed to him being beyond the multiverse in Action Comics #595 letter's page:
Originally posted by operator616
Well, here it is, from issue #35:http://i.imgur.com/kT5W313.jpg
He asks whether he created them or if they already exist. No confirmation that he created them as far as im concerned.
--------------
But to answer your question: in LOSH v4 #4 time Trapper actually warped all timelines so that when the LOSH time travel to "superboy"'s timeline which was in the 1930s until Superboy v1 #171 changed it into 1950s, they end up in his own pocket dimension:
http://i.imgur.com/HXhBws1.jpg
That, imo, is a more beastly feat than creating even pocket universes (which TT himself has done). Since it had a permanent effect. Not to mention that the TT operates outside the multiverse, him being unaffected by the crisis is specifically attributed to him being beyond the multiverse in Action Comics #595 letter's page:
From the sounds of that pic, it sounded like he was toying with Alan's mind, but he also doesn't say he didn't create them as well. If he did, that's an uber feat.
Originally posted by Golgo13
From the sounds of that pic, it sounded like he was toying with Alan's mind, but he also doesn't say he didn't create them as well. If he did, that's an uber feat.
It should be noted that LoSH Mordru was the one who was constantly compared to Time Trapper, not the one who were referring to, though (but again, it doesn't mean that he's his exact equal).
for instance, GDS (amped) Darkseid/Time Trapper/Mordru/Infinite Man/Stargrave/Omen were all seen being in the same level where Pre-Zero Hour LOSH villains are concerned, however, it doesn't mean that they were all exactly on the power-level
Originally posted by operator616
Time Trapper wins (just so we're clear: Mordru is comparable to the TT, but not his exact equal) since he's capable of creating universes, manipulating all timelines simultaneously (which had a permanent affect btw, this is important) , being beyond the multiverse, being the embodiment of the actual entropy, etc.., etc...
Mordru was basically dead even with Glorith, who had all of Time Trappers powers plus extras.
The fight ended in a stalemate, and both in bad shape.
Oh and you likely forgot this Operator. Trapper casually destroyed everything but two planets in a universe to create that pocket universe for Superboy.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624862/Action_Comics_591_-_08.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.html
Beastly feat.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and you likely forgot this Operator. Trapper casually destroyed everything but two planets in a universe to create that pocket universe for Superboy.http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624862/Action_Comics_591_-_08.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.htmlBeastly feat.
Totally. And didn't Trapper shield it from then Crisis?
The universe is pretty clearly a slice of Pre Crisis time, looking at how closely Superboy resembles PC Superboy.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh and you likely forgot this Operator. Trapper casually destroyed everything but two planets in a universe to create that pocket universe for Superboy.http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624862/Action_Comics_591_-_08.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16624864/AdventuresOfSuperman444p04and05.jpg.htmlBeastly feat.
Those particular scans don't show him destroying the universe, it shows that he reached back in time to when krypton was about to explode and "sliced" that an entire era to make it his own pocket dimension. He did it because he wanted to trick the legion members to meet his own version of Superman -- Superboy, who wasn't actually Superman in his early career like we know him to be in the Pre-crisis stories, but rather an alternate version of him. This happened because Superman's origins were rebooted in Bryne's Man of Steel, and established that he never had a career as Superboy (back then). That's why in Cosmic Boy #1, Superman never recognized Rokk and the latter was surprised sine Superman should have supposedly known him back in his career as Superboy. Same thing with the other Legion members in Superman v2 #8.
That's also how TT created other pocket dimensions, he "sliced" a portion of time. Post-Zero Hour Trapper was stated to do it too in LOSH v3 #105:
http://i.imgur.com/vBcROSU.jpg
---------------------
Also, i specifically focused only on multiversal feats (more than mere universal). And perhaps i wasn't clear enough. By "timelines" i mean actual realities. Because that's how they're mostly treated in the Legion-related comics. This is one example from LoSH #300 where the terms "timelines" and "realities" are used interchangeably:
http://i.imgur.com/ZEYCf5E.jpg?1
As to how many timelines there were pre-crisis, In Superboy #223, Time Trapper himself said that there are infinite futures (infinite parallel universes were already established way back in Superboy #113 letter's page, but let's focus on timelines solely):
http://i.imgur.com/bIO6FG6.jpg?1
And another example, from another pre-crisis title, Warlord v1 #80 also outright said that there are infinite timelines:
http://i.imgur.com/D64MavN.jpg?1
Apart from the time where the Trapper manipulated all (infinite) timelines/universes so that the Legion will end in his pocket (the Legion v4 scan), he also did the same thing in Superman #295:
http://i.imgur.com/qL1G9a0.jpg
and just so you know, in Superman's pre-crisis title, there were times when certain time eras were treated as parallel universes, such as Superman #146, when Supes goes back in time to change the past (which he can't) by not letting Krypton explode, he ends up changing a parallel universe's history (and he did it by traveling through time, so that means other eras and universes are the same thing):
http://i.imgur.com/u6OntpK.jpg
In short: Time Trapper manipulated infinite universes.
Originally posted by cdtm
Mordru was basically dead even with Glorith, who had all of Time Trappers powers plus extras.The fight ended in a stalemate, and both in bad shape.
That's true, although we must take into account that Time Trapper was still alive even after Mon-el "killed him" and Glorith replaced him; TT later revealed that he merely destroyed his form but not his essence, although he was already dying, and Glorith finished him, but that was after.
But i won't argue with you on this point; Mordru was prety much treated as being the ultimate being in the universe in that continuity, that's why he decided to face Glorith in the first place, because he saw a challenge.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes he shielded it from crisis.
Yup. He had that ability. And the AC letter's page outright confirms that he was beyond its effects. Another example would be Legionnaires 3 mini:
http://i.imgur.com/p5jK4SC.jpg?1
"i should have let the risis destroy you"
Originally posted by operator616
Those particular scans don't show him destroying the universe, it shows that he reached back in time to when krypton was about to explode and "sliced" that an entire era to make it his own pocket dimension. He did it because he wanted to trick the legion members to meet his own version of Superman -- Superboy, who wasn't actually Superman in his early career like we know him to be in the Pre-crisis stories, but rather an alternate version of him. This happened because Superman's origins were rebooted in Bryne's Man of Steel, and established that he never had a career as Superboy (back then). That's why in Cosmic Boy #1, Superman never recognized Rokk and the latter was surprised sine Superman should have supposedly known him back in his career as Superboy. Same thing with the other Legion members in Superman v2 #8.That's also how TT created other pocket dimensions, he "sliced" a portion of time. Post-Zero Hour Trapper was stated to do it too in LOSH v3 #105:
http://i.imgur.com/vBcROSU.jpg
---------------------
Also, i specifically focused only on multiversal feats (more than mere universal). And perhaps i wasn't clear enough. By "timelines" i mean actual realities. Because that's how they're mostly treated in the Legion-related comics. This is one example from LoSH #300 where the terms "timelines" and "realities" are used interchangeably:
http://i.imgur.com/ZEYCf5E.jpg?1
As to how many timelines there were pre-crisis, In Superboy #223, Time Trapper himself said that there are infinite futures (infinite parallel universes were already established way back in Superboy #113 letter's page, but let's focus on timelines solely):
http://i.imgur.com/bIO6FG6.jpg?1
And another example, from another pre-crisis title, Warlord v1 #80 also outright said that there are infinite timelines:
http://i.imgur.com/D64MavN.jpg?1
Apart from the time where the Trapper manipulated all (infinite) timelines/universes so that the Legion will end in his pocket (the Legion v4 scan), he also did the same thing in Superman #295:
http://i.imgur.com/qL1G9a0.jpg
and just so you know, in Superman's pre-crisis title, there were times when certain time eras were treated as parallel universes, such as Superman #146, when Supes goes back in time to change the past (which he can't) by not letting Krypton explode, he ends up changing a parallel universe's history (and he did it by traveling through time, so that means other eras and universes are the same thing):
http://i.imgur.com/u6OntpK.jpg
In short: Time Trapper manipulated infinite universes.
