Originally posted by Darth Abonis
Mace wasn't really given a chance. The Mando's fired that missile almost immediately after Mace engaged Maul. Aayla got owned.
The fight ended 2 pages after it began. Just because the comic switched to other scenes doesn't mean the Maul/Mace fight stopped. In fact every time you saw the trio fight they were in completely different positions.
What was more amazing for Maul was the fact that he was actually able to engage Mace plus another Jedi Council member simultaneously (without using Jar Kai no less).
However, Mace is still the guy who put Sidious on his ass, so there's no way Maul would defeat or even stalemate Mace a fight to the end. But I think clearly Darth Maul has been underrated, and is capable of putting up a much better fight against Mace Windu than most people here think.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERHowever, Mace is still the guy who put Sidious on his ass, so there's no way Maul would defeat or even stalemate Mace a fight to the end. But I think clearly Darth Maul has been underrated, and is capable of putting up a much better fight against Mace Windu than most people here think.
He only stalemated Sidious even with the gargantuan amp and amp from Anakin he had. Without it he would've been blitzed like Tiin and Agen, and he is not as powerful, fast, or durable as Maul.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But I think clearly Darth Maul has been underrated, and is capable of putting up a much better fight against Mace Windu than most people here think.
Or, using averages, Maul holding his own against Mace in a fight is just an uncharacteristically high showing for him.
Overrated is when you ignore consistently low-showing showings in favor of a high-showing minority; underrated is when you ignore consistently high-showings in favor of a low-showing minority.
Even within the show, I'm not aware of him consistently displaying abilities that would put him anywhere near Mace' level. Maul is barely on Kenobi's level in a fight, possibly edging him out due to his force abilities, and having even the added benefit of his brother fighting alongside him wasn't enough to allow him to put down Kenobi or Sideous, whom Mace handled alone.
I know that you've already pretty much said that Maul shouldn't be able to take Mace. But, I'd take it a step further and say that Maul holding his own against Mace like this isn't an impressive showing for him so much as it's inconsistent with the level of ability we've seen from him prior.
Even within the show, I'm not aware of him consistently displaying abilities that would put anywhere near Mace' level.
Mace has stalemated Grievous, defeated Bulq, fought evenly with Tiin, fought evenly with Maul, and was defeated by Dooku, Vastor, and Yoda respectively. What combat showings put Mace definitively above Maul? He isn't as strong, his TK is roughly comparable, he isn't as fast, he isn't as durable, he is only more skilled.
Overrated is when you ignore consistently low-showing showings in favor of a high-showing minority; underrated is when you ignore consistently high-showings in favor of a low-showing minority.
His dueling feats don't really put him above Maul, he's only ever fought evenly with people and never definitely beaten them. He's really only Kenobi's level as a duelist
Even within the show, I'm not aware of him consistently displaying abilities that would put anywhere near Mace' level.
I'd love to see any feats that would definitively put Mace above Maul unamped. He might be above a little but not my some massive margin.
Originally posted by carthagePhysically dominating Kar Vastor alone puts him above Maul in strength. Not giving a shit about Sideous' lightning and holding back a mountain slide while simultaneously levitating a tractor puts him above Maul's TK, and beating Darth ****ing Sideous and being second only to Yoda in an order containing some of the greatest duelists in the Order's entire history puts him above Maul's dueling ability.
Mace has stalemated Grievous, defeated Bulq, fought evenly with Tiin, fought evenly with Maul, and was defeated by Dooku, Vastor, and Yoda respectively. What combat showings put Mace definitively above Maul? He isn't as strong, his TK is roughly comparable, he isn't as fast, he isn't as durable, he is only more skilled.
His dueling feats don't really put him above Maul, he's only ever fought evenly with people and never definitely beaten them. He's really only Kenobi's level as a duelistRight, being solidly above both people who managed to embarrass Maul and his Brother in 2v1's somehow makes him a Kenobi-level duelist.
Pass whatever you're smoking.
I'd love to see any feats that would definitively put Mace above Maul unamped.
Having a basic knowledge of Star Wars would fulfill your wish.
Originally posted by carthage
Nothing really to dispute there other than CW writers suck at consistency with their fighters. One minute Windu is annihilating whole droid armies and TKing through durasteel tanks- Next he gets beaten by random guys, taken out by a slow moving grenade, and can barely fight against Grievous. hehe.
Wow, it's almost as if those first few examples were exaggerations of his true capabilities or something.
Physically dominating Kar Vastor alone puts him above Maul in strength. Not giving a shit about Sideous' lightning and holding back a mountain slide while simultaneously levitating a tractor puts him above Maul's TK, and beating Darth ****ing Sideous and being second only to Yoda in an order containing some of the greatest duelists in the Order's entire history puts him above Maul's dueling ability.
He never dominated him physically he thrust multiple punches into his chest, and Vastor sent him back and ultimately won the fight. He was even too afraid to fully submerge himself into Vaapad into order to win fully. Even in the movie Windu struggled to deflect his lightning, and only sent it back momentarily in a lull in Sidious's movements when he was goading Anakin
holding back a mountain slide while simultaneously levitating a tractor puts him above Maul's TK,
Maul's TK wave had enough power to send hordes of people flying into the air, move a massive ship with a casual gesture, collapse ceilings, move tons of rubble, blasted droids back, ragdolled Kenobi, and destroyed barracks with a force scream. Windu struggled to move the ATT, and his other TK feats are less impressive he's struggled to move rubble, couldn't lift the transport in Shatterpoint, and struggled to lift the rubble that was on top of him and Anakin.
Right, being solidly above both people who managed to embarrass Maul and his Brother in 2v1's somehow makes him a Kenobi duelist.Pass whatever you're smoking.
Maul defeated his brother, and Windu struggled to defeat Grievous and failed to kill Ventress as well. Maul has dominated Kenobi with TK, Windu has failed to do anything notable in combat with his. Apart from his massively circumstantial stalemating of the Emperor, Windu has very little to put him above Maul to the level you're suggesting.
Having a basic knowledge of Star Wars would fulfill your wish.
I've never denied that Windu was superior, just not by much if anything at all.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I still see it as like when Ventress holds her own against Anakin and Kenobi for a bit. When you're at a certain level, you can last a long time even when you're outmatched so long as its not too much stompatude.
Yeah but Ventress usually gives both Kenobi and Skywalker a damn good fight one on one (unless of course Anakin is in the Zone blah blah). So her being able to engage them both does prove something Imho. If she wasn't even in the same league as either one then she wouldn't be able to do that.
As for the other conversation about Maul's prior feats, stomping Opress the way he did is definitely a great one. And his Force feats of chucking the Jedi craft off a cliff from a bit of distance, and Force choking Kenobi in Sith Hunters, are amongst the best Tk feats we've seen in TCW or even the whole CW period.
Originally posted by carthageYeah, he was holding back in this first fight, and then casually crushed him in their second. How the **** is this supposed to be a low showing for him?
He never dominated him physically he thrust multiple punches into his chest, and Vastor sent him back and ultimately won the fight. He was even too afraid to fully submerge himself into Vaapad into order to win fully.
Even in the movie Windu struggled to deflect his lightning, and only sent it back momentarily in a lull in Sidious's movements when he was goading AnakinWrong. The novelization makes it clear that Mace was outright killing Palpatine with his own lightning via Vapaad.
Maul's TK wave had enough power to send hordes of people flying into the air, move a massive ship with a casual gesture, collapse ceilings, move tons of rubble, blasted droids back, ragdolled Kenobi, and destroyed barracks with a force scream.None of which is superior to what I've already listed for Windu.
Maul defeated his brother, and Windu struggled to defeat Grievous and failed to kill Ventress as well. Maul has dominated Kenobi with TK, Windu has failed to do anything notable in combat with his. Apart from his massively circumstantial stalemating of the Emperor, Windu has very little to put him above Maul to the level you're suggesting.None of which is impressive, even for people below Mace. Wow Maul beat his brother in a duel, the same guy that Kenobi and Sideous effortlessly son'd while fighting Maul?! I don't give a shit- Mace doesn't either.
"Massively circumstantial"? Here's the circumstances, given to us by Word of God (Lucas): "Mace overpowered Sideous" and "You have to be Yoda or Mace to defeat Sideous".
I've never denied that Windu was superior, just not by much if anything at all.
Then prove it. I await your reply, my son.
Yeah, he was holding back in this first fight, and then casually crushed him in their second. How the **** is this supposed to be a low showing for him?
Its a low showing because Vastor is featless, isn't as skilled, and has nowhere near the amount of training compared to him.
Wrong. The novelization makes it clear that Mace was outright killing Palpatine with his own lightning via Vapaad.
Wrong the novel states that his lightning was bending his blade back, and that it shot at Windu so fast he barely had enough time to react
Now Anakin was at Mace's shoulder. Palpatine still made no move to defend himself from Skywalker; instead he ramped up the lightning bursting from his hands, bending the fountain of Mace's blade back toward the Korun Master's face.Palpatine's eyes glowed with power, casting a yellow glare that burned back the rain from around them. "He is a traitor, Anakin. Destroy him."
"You're the chosen one, Anakin," Mace said, his voice going thin with strain. This was beyond Vaapad
Had Sidious wanted to he could've blitzed him outright, but he let him live so he could goad Anakin to the darkside. Also even after Palpatine is downed and Anakin distracts Palpatine, Palpatine rises up and sends Windu flying out:
Mace thought blankly, Why? And moved his lightsaber toward the fallen Chancellor. Before he could follow through on his stroke, a sudden arc of blue plasma sheared through his wrist and his hand tumbled away with his lightsaber still in it and Palpatine roared back to his feet and lightning speared from the Sith Lord's hands and without his blade to catch it, the power of Palpatine's hate struck him full-on.
Windu never defeated him
None of which is superior to what I've already listed for Windu.
Windu failed to lift a ship, Maul did. Windu had to pause to move an ATT over a cliff, Maul moved a ship with a casual gesture, while running. Also he only held a cliffside of rubble not an entire mountaun
None of which is impressive, even for people below Mace. Wow Maul beat his brother in a duel, the same guy that Kenobi and Sideous effortlessly son'd while fighting Maul?! I don't give a shit.
Windu struggled to defeat Grievous, Maul took him down in a tackle. Windu struggled to defeat Bulq, lost to Vastor, and considering Windu had an amp against Sidious whereas, Maul had to rely on his own skill to just survive isn't really much of a comparison lol. Who has Windu defeated that puts him above Maul? You haven't answered my question, obviously Maul can hold his own against him in spite of your lowballing attempts.
Then prove it. I await your reply, my son.
Maul has defeated Obi Wan, Qui Gon Jin, the entire Black sun gang, Anoon Bondara, taken out Grievous, fought evenly with Windu, defeated Aayla Secura, defeated multiple Jedi at once, Bruu Jun Fan, Savage Opress, i,e powerful Jedi of his era. Windu has at best stalemated people, struggled with Bulq, and sent Ventress running.
Originally posted by carthage
Its a low showing because Vastor is featless, isn't as skilled, and has nowhere near the amount of training compared to him.
So the book establishes that Kar was an immensely powerful force user even despite his lack of training, whose power was further amped by the the entire planet being a dark side nexus. And even then he only beat Mace because Mace threw the fight.
But yeah man tell me more about how Mace losing to him was a low showing. 👆
Wrong the novel states that his lightning was bending his blade back, and that it shot at Windu so fast he barely had enough time to reactI don't give a ****. Barely or not, react to him he did, and won the fight he did. Can't say the same about Maul and his brother. How long did Maul resist Sideous' lightning again? How much of Sideous' face did he melt off by redirecting his own power back onto him?
Oh that's right he didn't resist it at all. Sideous casually rag-dolled him with telepathy with a smile on his face, then barbecued his ass after having the pleasure of hearing Maul beg for his life like a *****.
Had Sidious wanted to he could've blitzed him outright, but he let him live so he could goad Anakin to the darkside. Also even after Palpatine is downed and Anakin distracts Palpatine, Palpatine rises up and sends Windu flying out:Word of god > your opinion though. 👆
Windu failed to lift a ship, Maul did. Windu had to pause to move an ATT over a cliff, Maul moved a ship with a casual gesture, while running. Also he only held a cliffside of rubble not an entire mountaun
Your name isn't Carthage anymore, it's Lowball. Calm down Lowball.
The rubble that Mace was holding back was described as "hundreds of tons" and he held it, continuously, for not just a brief moment, like moving something, but for several continuous minutes, while simultaneously levitating a vehicle that's described as "immense", with treads wider than a person and that is large enough to hold multiple people inside and comprised of metal thick enough that its resistant to lava and vibro-shields. Considering that one of these weighs ten tons alone, you're looking at something that weighs dozens of tons at the very least.
Lifting both of those immense weights, simultaneously and for several minutes while dodging blaster fire and having a conversation with a frightened child is vastly more impressive than anything Maul has done in his entire life. 👆
Who has Windu defeated that puts him above Maul?
Mace is above both of the guys who have embarrassed both Maul and his brother simultaneously.
Maul has defeated Obi Wan, Qui Gon Jin, the entire Black sun gang, Anoon Bondara, taken out Grievous, fought evenly with Windu, defeated Aayla Secura, defeated multiple Jedi at once, Bruu Jun Fan, Savage Opress, i,e powerful Jedi of his era.
And Sideous is more powerful than all of these characters combined and was still "overpowered" by Mace. 👆
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah but Ventress usually gives both Kenobi and Skywalker a damn good fight one on one (unless of course Anakin is in the Zone blah blah). So her being able to engage them both does prove something Imho. If she wasn't even in the same league as either one then she wouldn't be able to do that.
Yeah, and Maul is in Windu's league and would give him a fight. If Sora Bulq can, so can Maul.
