Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because tapping into a Force nexus isn't comparable to trying to breath. While I don't think Vitiate needs a nexus to accomplish most things, we can't ignore that the nexus is relatively close by.
Why you don't learn anything from his victory over a Jedi Strike Team on a neutral setting, is beyond me. This feat alone is testament to his incredible power.We don't need hundreds of feats to determine whether Emperor Vitiate is good in a neutral setting is, one feat verified this.
It happened in orbit of a tremendous darkside nexus. It's a dubious feat because of that fact. When I ask for a requisite proof of a feat without a nexus, this is hardly applicable as it still is the vicinity of an area that he by your own admission changed into a nexus. Note how I stated neutral ground in the Caedus vs. Vitiate thread? You seem to have forgotten that fact.
We don't need hundreds of feats to determine whether Emperor Vitiate is good in a neutral setting is, one feat verified this.
Feats > your bad logic. He lacks any showings that prove he can stand with someone that can keep up with the most powerful force user of all time. This is something that has to be rebutted by showings, not by your word. Sorry.
Also, Emperor Vitiate transformed Dromund Kaas in a to place strong in the dark side. However, whole planet is not a nexus, some regions in it are. How many times I have to tell you this?
He transformed the planet into a place strong in the darkside, i,e it is a nexus based on yours and Sinious's admission. This is why all of his best feats are on it, and off it he has next to nothing. How is it trolling to just ask for moments when he actually has to perform by his own ability and not aid?
Some examples:-
Darth Malgus performed really well inside Jedi Temple on Coruscant. And Jedi Temple represents one of the strongest nexuses of light side in the galaxy.
Yeah but Malgus didn't have immense prep or thousands of Sith lords to annihilate in order to achieve his feats
Count Dooku couldn't defeat Jed Master Yoda on a planet strong in the dark side.
Due to Yoda's superior ability as a fighter and a force user, i,e things which Vitiate lacks to substantiate based on his showings.
Originally posted by carthage
I'm not the one defending characters religiously when they have zero showings without beneficial circumstances. My logic is simply based on feats, that's it. We have no idea how powerful he is when he's off a world bereft of factors that affect his overall power. I fail to understand what's "Stupid" for calling Legend out about this. All of Vitiate's tens of millions of quotes don't prove he's powerful off a nexus.
Its not defending a character religiously, its simply not allowing you to trash every non PT character as you wish.
I agree that combat feats are very important but just because we don't have every detail of a character doesn't make them weak.
Jadus' ship holding together feat for example puts him above most in force powers.(or at least TK)
Originally posted by Sinious
Its not defending a character religiously, its simply not allowing you to trash every non PT character as you wish.I agree that combat feats are very important but just because we don't have every detail of a character doesn't make them weak.
Jadus' ship holding together feat for example puts him above most in force powers.(or at least TK)
I am not biased by an era, try again. If Vitiate had feats off nexus that matched his showings with a nexus/prep, we would not be having this conversation. I am not even trashing him, I'm simply saying based on what little he's shown that there is simply not enough proof to suggest he can hold his own against a character like Caedus off a nexus. One would think that its a logical position to hold, given how poorly Vitiate is with a saber, how he requires tons of prep and specific circumstances to achieve something, and how nearly all of his showings are in areas strong in the darkside.
How is that trolling?
Originally posted by carthage
It happened in orbit of a tremendous darkside nexus. It's a dubious feat because of that fact. When I ask for a requisite proof of a feat without a nexus, this is hardly applicable as it still is the vicinity of an area that he by your own admission changed into a nexus. Note how I stated neutral ground in the Caedus vs. Vitiate thread? You seem to have forgotten that fact.
It doesn't matters how close a Space Station is in proximity to Dromund Kaas, it is located in the space and environment of Dromund Kaas have no influence over it.
Also, I never claimed that Dromund Kaas is a nexus on the whole. You are misrepresenting my words.
Fact is that Emperor Vitiate fought a Jedi Strike Team in a neutral setting and easily overwhelmed it with his powers. No ifs and buts.
"Your striving is insignificant. Let your death concession be the same."
Originally posted by carthage
Feats > your bad logic. He lacks any showings that prove he can stand with someone that can keep up with the most powerful force user of all time. This is something that has to be rebutted by showings, not by your word. Sorry.
Luke, at maximum, is touted as (one of the) most powerful Jedi in the history within lore.
Also, you think that Darth Caedus is unique at challenging Luke? You need to learn about Lord Nyax then.
Lord Nyax managed to fight Luke, Mara and another simultaneously and held his own during most part of the duel. In-fact, Nyax would have defeated Luke, if the latter had no support. Do the math.
Luke isn't some unstoppable being.
Originally posted by carthage
He transformed the planet into a place strong in the darkside, i,e it is a nexus based on yours and Sinious's admission. This is why all of his best feats are on it, and off it he has next to nothing.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia reveals that Emperor Vitiate transformed Dark Temple in to a nexus of the dark side. If Emperor Vitiate, specifically transformed this place in to a nexus of the dark side, then how the hell is this even possible if entire planet is a nexus?
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan doesn't confirms Dromund Kaas as a nexus of the dark side on the whole either. Strong in the dark side? yes.
Don't make stuff up.
Originally posted by carthage
How is it trolling to just ask for moments when he actually has to perform by his own ability and not aid?
Originally posted by carthage
Yeah but Malgus didn't have immense prep or thousands of Sith lords to annihilate in order to achieve his feats
So how was this even possible? Ha, genius?
Point is that settings do not make much difference in capabilities of Force-users.
Originally posted by carthage
Due to Yoda's superior ability as a fighter and a force user, i,e things which Vitiate lacks to substantiate based on his showings.
Yoda is superior to Dooku in all aspects, yes. And this difference remains even in settings that are supposed to benefit Dooku.
Emperor Vitiate will defeat a lesser Force-user in every setting.
I am not biased by an era, try again.
hahaha yeah right. Good one kid.
Originally posted by carthage
If Vitiate had feats off nexus that matched his showings with a nexus/prep, we would not be having this conversation. I am not even trashing him, I'm simply saying based on what little he's shown that there is simply not enough proof to suggest he can hold his own against a character like Caedus off a nexus. One would think that its a logical position to hold, given how poorly Vitiate is with a saber, how he requires tons of prep and specific circumstances to achieve something, and how nearly all of his showings are in areas strong in the darkside.How is that trolling?
Let me try to explain again. You accuse me of making assumptions but you yourself keep making bigger ones. We know that Vitiate performs incredibly well with prep and nexus boost. We know that he is good at organizing and manipulating events to his advantage before experiencing them. These are facts. Now your assumptions just in your last post:
1. He is terrible with a saber.
2. He requires tons of prep and specific circumstances
1. We don't know anything about his saber skills. The fact that he doesn't need it even against powerful opponents like Revan does not mean anything.
2. He uses prep very well and is capable of manipulating events into his own advantage. This is something he does because he is smart and there is absolutely no info on whether he requires them or not. You just keep on insisting on this and that's why we are having this debate right now.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nexus is many miles below, heck, Dromund Kaas is not a nexus on the whole. Space Station is an entirely different setting then Dromund Kaas in experience. No comparison at all.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It doesn't have to be. Plenty of characters have senesced nexi from orbit. If Vitiate is as powerful as you say, he should be able to tap into it. The fact that he can posse people across the galaxy, still in said space station, doesn't make me doubt that he could tap into the nexus miles below him.
Emperor Vitiate was "supremely powerful in the dark side" since birth and continued to grow in power with passage of time. How much power he really needs to fight some opponents? Makes no sense.
An entire reasoning flew above your head or is it your habit to overlook information that doesn't favors your mindset?It doesn't matters how clone a Space Station is in proximity to Dromund Kaas, it is located in the space and environment of Dromund Kaas have no influence over it.
I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that he is in proximity to it, and that he lacks any sort of showings to support he is capable of replicating feats of similar magnitude elsewhere. He is still well within reach of a nexus he created, whether you'd like to admit it or not and that's why this feat will not suffice as proof of his power off nexus
Also, I never claimed that Dromund Kaas is a nexus on the whole. You are misrepresenting my words.
Irrelevant to the fact that the area is strong in the darkside, and likely as a matter of Vitiate's usual showings supported his feat of defeating the strike team
Fact is that Emperor Vitiate fought a Jedi Strike Team in a neutral setting. No ifs and buts.p
Nope
Your striving is insignificant. Let your death concession be the same.
The day you'll get my concession is the day you cough up a feat of Vitiate's without nexus, prep, and or heavy darkside immersion.
What makes you think that Luke is the most powerful Force-user of all time? He isn't.Luke, at maximum, is touted as (one of the) most powerful Jedi in the history within lore.
None of the Jedi have accomplished what he has, from defeating the most powerful Sith lord of all time to tons of other stuff. I'm not going to go into detail, Caedus holding his own against him is a better combat feat than anything Vitiate has ever done
Also, you think that Darth Caedus is unique at challenging Luke? You need to learn about Lord Nyax then.
He challenged Luke at arguably his peak, while dismembered, and still fighting on. This is better than Vitiate hugging a lightsaber and dying.
Lord Nyax managed to fight Luke, Mara and another simultaneously and held his own during most part of the duel. Do the math.
Irrelevant to Caedus's performance
Luke isn't some unstoppable being.
I never claimed anything to the contrary
This is your supposition, not a valid point.
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Encyclopedia reveals that Emperor Vitiate transformed Dark Temple in to a nexus of the dark side. If Emperor Vitiate, specifically transformed this place in to a nexus of the dark side, then how the hell is this even possible if entire planet is a nexus?
Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan doesn't confirms Dromund Kaas as a nexus of the dark side on the whole either. Strong in the dark side? yes.Don't make stuff up.
You're playing with semantics. Even if that wasn't the case Vitiate required a ton of prep to accomplish his higher end feats, its not just a coincidence that his sole feat occurs on an area that is by your own admission "Strong" in the darkside. Even if it was in orbit who cares, its still well within a place he's familiar with and that has aided him in his past showings. He has no feats off world to suggest otherwise
You totally missed the point. Darth Malgus performed really well against Jedi in a place which is a nexus of the light side.So how was this even possible? Ha, genius?
Point is that settings do not make much difference in capabilities of Force-users.
I didn't miss the point the examples are completely different. Vitiate was still well within a darkside nexus that amplified his effects, the fact Malgus can fight well in the Jedi temple isn't analogous with Vitiate defeating a strike team within the orbit of one.
Once again, you totally missed the point.Yoda is superior to Dooku in all aspects, yes. And this difference remains even in settings that are supposed to benefit Dooku.
Dooku drew on it and lost because Yoda is more powerful in every aspect. Why would that be any different than Vitiate drawing on it and defeating featless Jedi as he did?
Let me try to explain again. You accuse me of making assumptions but you yourself keep making bigger ones. We know that Vitiate performs incredibly well with prep and nexus boost. We know that he is good at organizing and manipulating events to his advantage before experiencing them. These are facts. Now your assumptions just in your last post:
Then rebut them with feats. That's all I ask, and have ever asked from fans of Vitiate. All of his showings just prove he can perform force feats with prep. That's all. Nothing puts him on the level of Sidious, Caedus, Plagueis, or even Exar Kun.
1. He is terrible with a saber.
Supported by how laughably he died against Hero of Tython
2. He requires tons of prep and specific circumstances
Everything he's ever done he's had a nexus, prep, or been within an area of heavy darkside concentration
1. We don't know anything about his saber skills. The fact that he doesn't need it even against powerful opponents like Revan does not mean anything.
He was in a place strong in the darkside when he fought Revan. There is no reason to suggest he could hold his own against Revan on neutral ground i,e (Not on Dromund Kaas). He could barely grip a lightsaber when he died, and given the fact he is mainly a force user and has never dueled should be enough evidence.
2. He uses prep very well and is capable of manipulating events into his own advantage. This is something he does because he is smart and there is absolutely no info on whether he requires them or not. You just keep on insisting on this and that's why we are having this debate right now.
If he's as powerful as his quotes claim then where are his feats substantiating that conclusion that he doesn't need prep or a nexus? He evidently requires them as he needed thousands of Sith Lords to drain a planet, when Palpatine only needed himself to drain all of the souls off of Byss. Nice try though.
Originally posted by carthage
Only in this place is it trolling to ask for feats and evidence to the contrary.