Nomi Sunrider Respect Thread

Originally posted by Nephthys
Isn't this mere supposition on your part? It's a much simpler explanation that the Force Bond simply continued to exist up until Traya's death, which was what severed it. Traya had obviously lied about the Force Bond being fatal in the case of her death considering every Jedi Master reacts to that info with "wtf that sounds dumb".

And Zez Kai-Ell specifically says that he's not particularly knowledgeable about Force Bonds and that he doesn't know how exactly to sever one. HOWever, he also says that to break one "your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die". In the Exile's case both apply to her bond with Kreia. If it is stated that Surik severed the Force Bond by cutting off Traya's hand, then that the much more simple explanation is that that action met the first requirement and was such an act of violence against the nature of a Force Bond that it was severed.

Also, "barely levitating three lightsabers?" Even levitating and fighting with one lightsaber is a extremely masterful display of telekinetic control. Fighting with 3 at once is an astounding feat of mental coordination. Particularly since she'd just had her freaking hand cut off. 😆

It is supposition, but we're left with only theories on that game.

But on the TOR forums, we consider Dark Side non-canon, but an alternate route that shows the abilities of characters. For example, we know the Exile could have become the next Darth Nihilus from the Dark Side game, but we know she didn't.

It is because of this that I cannot subscribe to your theory, in the Dark Side version, Traya attacks herself with a blade in an open attack on the Exile, obviously, if an attack like that was to sever your bond, it would have happened. And yet:

"Our bond remains but that is all, this place will hide you from the sith for a time, enough to do what must be done. Stay here and die apprentice, among the wreckage of the Jedi. It is a fitting grave, until the Sith come to end you, to end everything."

And yes, in my opinion, Levitating three Lightsabers is more about control than raw power, but that's just me.
Noting of course that Nihilus didn't Sever her from the force, he just drained her of it.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, I guess. Still a pointless debate. Five Jedi far from featless, four of which are the most powerful in the Order vs. One Sith anywhere is a feat if I've ever seen one.

It's an impressive feat, a very impressive feat, it just doesn't match up to other Sith.

Sidious obliterated an entire fleet, slaughtered 3 Jedi Masters in under 8 seconds (Because he moved so fast the Jedi literally couldn't comprehend him) and literally drained the entire Planet of Byss to fuel his energies, and this was a sllllooooowwww drain.
He mind controlled thousands of people on coruscant to forget the fact that an Executor Star Destroyer casually broke through the city scape, as it was being constructed underground.

You call creating a nexus a Dark Side feat, Traya says it's easy.
You want a real ritual feat? Plageuis and Sidious, tipping the Balance of the entire cosmic force across the entire Galaxy, despite being outnumbered 5000:1 by the Light Sided Jedi.

The Sith Emperor is an impressive individual, none of us on the TOR forums dispute that, we just know that a lot of other Sith have done what he's done and more.

Really, Palpatine's corruption of Byss is greater than Viti's corruption of either Nathema or Dromund Kaas.

Originally posted by Selenial
It's an impressive feat, a very impressive feat, it just doesn't match up to other Sith.

Sidious obliterated an entire fleet, slaughtered 3 Jedi Masters in under 8 seconds (Because he moved so fast the Jedi literally couldn't comprehend him) and literally drained the entire Planet of Byss to fuel his energies, and this was a sllllooooowwww drain.
He mind controlled thousands of people on coruscant to forget the fact that an Executor Star Destroyer casually broke through the city scape, as it was being constructed underground.

You call creating a nexus a Dark Side feat, Traya says it's easy.

You want a real ritual feat? Plageuis and Sidious, tipping the Balance of the entire cosmic force across the entire Galaxy, despite being outnumbered 5000:1 by the Light Sided Jedi.

The Sith Emperor is an impressive individual, none of us on the TOR forums dispute that, we just know that a lot of other Sith have done what he's done and more.

It's getting hot in here.

Originally posted by Selenial
It is supposition, but we're left with only theories on that game.

But on the TOR forums, we consider Dark Side non-canon, but an alternate route that shows the abilities of characters. For example, we know the Exile could have become the next Darth Nihilus from the Dark Side game, but we know she didn't.

It is because of this that I cannot subscribe to your theory, in the Dark Side version, Traya attacks herself with a blade in an open attack on the Exile, obviously, if an attack like that was to sever your bond, it would have happened. And yet:

"Our bond remains but that is all, this place will hide you from the sith for a time, enough to do what must be done. Stay here and die apprentice, among the wreckage of the Jedi. It is a fitting grave, until the Sith come to end you, to end everything."

And yes, in my opinion, Levitating three Lightsabers is more about control than raw power, but that's just me.
Noting of course that Nihilus didn't Sever her from the force, he just drained her of it.

Right, but you stated that we "know" that the Exile consciously severed people from the Force and has control over the technique. Not only do we not know that but there's no evidence to support it even as a theory.

Even in a Dark Side playthrough the Exile has no control over her power. When you strike down a Jedi Master she's shown to absorb their power without willfully using the ability herself or being aware of what she's doing.

Even though she attacked herself, her true feelings about the Exile hadn't changed. Even in the darkside ending Kreia congratulates you at the end and states that you'd made "the right choices." Kreia attacking herself is different from what I'm suggesting. Zez Kai-Ell states that the bond would be severed if your feelings changed, not if you wounded each other. I was suggesting the act as more symbolic of the Exile's rejection of Traya severing the bond.

In any case, was it literally stated that the bond was severed when the Exile cut off Kreia's hand? Because that's what I'm going on with the above theory, but if it wasn't literally stated then I'm sticking with the idea that the Bond was only severed with Kreia's death.

In the end though, I believe it's been established that your theory is basically impossible. We saw in her flashback that even in the exact same place when Nihilus severed her from the Force she was unable to so much as call her lightsaber to her hand. And no, she was stripped of the Force by him:

"No, there were not. In times past and in times future, there are Jedi who will stop listening to the Force, those that will try to forget it, but maintain unconscious ties. And those, as in the past just as I, who have had the force stripped from them."

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I never said it did. You're assuming that we all think alike here. I put DE Sidious well above Vitiate.

Traya has created zero nexi to know.

I'm not, I'm mainly just throwing general points to things that have been brought up

That's been mentioned a few times now, not sure why your brought it up. And while it's more impressive than anything Vitiate has ever done, it took the accumulation of thousands of years of Sith teachings as well as decades of planning to accomplish, and even then, two people where involved.

In this thread? I didn't see it, and LeGenD has continued his rampant assault regardless...

Also, Plageuis actually came up with the technique on his own, deriving it from how Slaughter creates a nexus of Dark Energy. And yes it still took planning, but so did Vitiates.

Oh, and in vitiates best Ritual (Natheema) more like two thousand people were involved.

Most of us would agree with you, but considering your own list has Vitiate as the third strongest Sith in history, I'm wondering if you agree with you.

Yes but that's just Beni being Beni, he's the guy who put Fay on the list >.>

I don't agree with him.
A lot of people don't agree with him.

If you feel he shouldn't be at 3, blame LeGenD.

Originally posted by Selenial
It is supposition, but we're left with only theories on that game.

But on the TOR forums, we consider Dark Side non-canon, but an alternate route that shows the abilities of characters. For example, we know the Exile could have become the next Darth Nihilus from the Dark Side game, but we know she didn't.

It is because of this that I cannot subscribe to your theory, in the Dark Side version, Traya attacks herself with a blade in an open attack on the Exile, obviously, if an attack like that was to sever your bond, it would have happened. And yet:

"Our bond remains but that is all, this place will hide you from the sith for a time, enough to do what must be done. Stay here and die apprentice, among the wreckage of the Jedi. It is a fitting grave, until the Sith come to end you, to end everything."

And yes, in my opinion, Levitating three Lightsabers is more about control than raw power, but that's just me.
Noting of course that Nihilus didn't Sever her from the force, he just drained her of it.

When Anakin lost his hand in a duel against Dooku, he was lying on the floor. Injuries can have an impact on the performance a living being.

Traya demonstrated endurance close to that of UnuThul while confronting Meetra, which is impressive. She wasn't an ordinary Sith Lord but she had limits.

Originally posted by Selenial
It's an impressive feat, a very impressive feat, it just doesn't match up to other Sith.

Emperor Vitiate have another combat oriented feat. He felled a Sith Strike Team led by Dark Lokess with a single blast of power, these Sith were no ordinary Sith but members of the Dark Council.

On a grand scale, Emperor influenced the environment of an entire world (i.e. Dromund Kaas) with his dark side practices. And he pulled this off consistently while performing other actions simultaneously across the span of the galaxy.

Originally posted by Selenial
Sidious obliterated an entire fleet,

When Emperor was no longer active, Dread Masters rebelled and no one could control them. They had to be put down by Strike Teams.

What does this tells you? Emperor Vitiate is so powerful that he could handle Dread Masters, the only individual who could keep them in order.

Originally posted by Selenial
slaughtered 3 Jedi Masters in under 8 seconds (Because he moved so fast the Jedi literally couldn't comprehend him)

Emperor Vitiate's duel against the Jedi doesn't lasts more then few seconds either. And he doesn't even needs lightsaber to put down "one of the strongest and resolute Jedi of the Order."

Originally posted by Selenial
and literally drained the entire Planet of Byss to fuel his energies, and this was a sllllooooowwww drain.

Originally posted by Selenial
He mind controlled thousands of people on coruscant to forget the fact that an Executor Star Destroyer casually broke through the city scape, as it was being constructed underground.

Originally posted by Selenial
You call creating a nexus a Dark Side feat, Traya says it's easy.
You want a real ritual feat? Plageuis and Sidious, tipping the Balance of the entire cosmic force across the entire Galaxy, despite being outnumbered 5000:1 by the Light Sided Jedi.

Emperor's ability to control the outcome of a ritual so terrifying that eliminated all biota of an entire world (including 8000 Sith Lords), destroyed its landscape, sucked the Force dry from it and resulted in the largest nexus of the dark side the galaxy would ever see - is something to behold.

In-fact, Emperor became so powerful afterwards that he orchestrated a ritual with which he would pull of Nathema on the scale of the galaxy but he was stopped by his enemies.

Using joint actions of Plagueis and Sidious to favor Sidious's power isn't a sound logic. Two heavyweights combined their might and spent months to perform an undoubtedly very impressive feat but could one of them pull this off by themselves?

Originally posted by Selenial
The Sith Emperor is an impressive individual, none of us on the TOR forums dispute that, we just know that a lot of other Sith have done what he's done and more.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Even though she attacked herself, her [b]true feelings about the Exile hadn't changed. Even in the darkside ending Kreia congratulates you at the end and states that you'd made "the right choices." Kreia attacking herself is different from what I'm suggesting. Zez Kai-Ell states that the bond would be severed if your feelings changed, not if you wounded each other. I was suggesting the act as more symbolic of the Exile's rejection of Traya severing the bond.

In any case, was it literally stated that the bond was severed when the Exile cut off Kreia's hand? Because that's what I'm going on with the above theory, but if it wasn't literally stated then I'm sticking with the idea that the Bond was only severed with Kreia's death.

In the end though, I believe it's been established that your theory is basically impossible. We saw in her flashback that even in the exact same place when Nihilus severed her from the Force she was unable to so much as call her lightsaber to her hand. And no, she was stripped of the Force by him:
[/B]

Uhh, the "Know" was just the wrong word to use.
And in the Dark Playthrough, we don't know, seeing as the aniamtion is the same as the Death Field animation.

But no, because the Exile still shows she loves Traya, she tried to redeem and save her, there is no difference between Traya's strike and the Exiles.

As for the quote, yes it is, but I need to go and hunt through to find out where.... I had it in my Kaggath prep from like 8 months ago, but I didn't give a source in my notes.... I know Aurbere and Rayla both share the same views, perhaps they are aware of the source, I'll ask them.

You seem quite knowledgable, do you ever find it hard to remember where as source comes from? Too many damn eras... Too many sourcebooks -_-

Originally posted by Selenial
literally drained the entire Planet of Byss to fuel his energies, and this was a sllllooooowwww drain.

The fact that it was a slow drain is why it's unimpressive though. He did it in unknown conditions and using an unknown method. So it cannot be said to be representative of his standing power. I'm sure Vitiate could drain an entire planet if he had all the time in the world to prepare as well. He was going to drain the entire galaxy after all.

Originally posted by Selenial
He mind controlled thousands of people on coruscant to forget the fact that an Executor Star Destroyer casually broke through the city scape, as it was being constructed underground.

And the Dread Masters controlled entire armies with their mental abilties, yet they confirmed to be less dominating in that regard than Vitiate and were entirely subservient to him.

Originally posted by Selenial
Yes but that's just Beni being Beni, he's the guy who put Fay on the list >.>

I don't agree with him.
A lot of people don't agree with him.

If you feel he shouldn't be at 3, blame LeGenD.

Easy to say when you and some others start complaining when I start a debate with him on this matter. Its you who proposed to rank Caedus above Sith Emperor, not me.

In reality, Caedus is not on par with Emperor.

Just ignore her, LeGenD. She bathed in false quotes, it's only logical her opinions would be wrong too.
I wonder how long Lady has been throwing around those fake quotes. But it does confirm why Selenial is so...out there.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And its nice to see how you changed colors in SWTOR official form, specifically targeting me and DarthAnt66.
You fueled this shit-storm and I am getting blamed for it in the official SWTOR forum. Nice. Really nice.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, I was baffled by what you brought to my attention in the first place, I never expected SWTOR official form member (LadyKulvax) to post something that is not public knowledge and get defensive when asked to present evidence. Maybe she is right, maybe she is wrong. But if wrong, it [B]is a matter of misleading the masses. however, it is also possible that she is remembering stuff wrong, nobody is perfect is memories.

Of-course, I do think that DarthAnt66 came off as harsh on her, and I decided to diffuse the situation in my thread on SWTOR official form upon my return. But look at the reactions of another SWTOR official forum member (BeniboyBling), mind-blowing. 🙄[/b]

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact that it was a slow drain is why it's unimpressive though.

Oh, I don't know... "unimpressive" would better apply to a feat that required eight thousand Sith Lords to achieve. Whatever happened with Byss, Palpatine achieved unaided.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He did it in unknown conditions and using an unknown method. So it cannot be said to be representative of his standing power.

Given that all the available lore attributes it to Palpatine's powers, I'd say it could indeed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'm sure Vitiate could drain an entire planet if he had all the time in the world to prepare as well.

Oh, well as long as you're sure.

Calm down, Ant. Stop being a douche.

Anyway Legend you can't complain about rankings. If you had your way Thanaton would be at number 5 overall or something. 😆

Originally posted by Nephthys
Calm down, Ant. Stop being a douche.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
She insulted my Revan Respect Thread. I have full rights to be one.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anyway Legend you can't complain about rankings. If you had your way Thanaton would be at number 5 overall or something. 😆

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact that it was a slow drain is why it's unimpressive though. He did it in unknown conditions and using an unknown method. So it cannot be said to be representative of his standing power. I'm sure Vitiate could drain an entire planet if he had all the time in the world to prepare as well. He was going to drain the entire galaxy after all.

And the Dread Masters controlled entire armies with their mental abilties, yet they confirmed to be less dominating in that regard than Vitiate and were entirely subservient to him.

Actually, it's not unimpressive, because he wasn't even consciously doing it. It was a direct result of his massive power in the Dark Side of the force, he had the same Death Aura that Darth Nihilus had, that's how impressive it is.

And yes, but that's 6 dread masters, who, (And I quote Dread Master Calphayus here) "The fear gave us rage, the pain gave us strength, we were chained to one another, enslaved with higher purpose."
were nothing without each other.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh, I don't know... "unimpressive" would better apply to a feat that required eight thousand Sith Lords to achieve. Whatever happened with Byss, Palpatine achieved unaided.

Well of course Sidious is superior to Vitiate before the ritual had ended. As his mortal self he was likely far below Sidious.

Although it's not really comparable. Sidious drain merely rejuvenated himself, while Vitiates vastly increased his power and made him immortal.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Given that all the available lore attributes it to Palpatine's powers, I'd say it could indeed.

Him using a ritual would still be his power. Just not what he can perform in a fight or at will.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well of course Sidious is superior to Vitiate before the ritual had ended. As his mortal self he was likely far below Sidious.

Although it's not really comparable. Sidious drain merely rejuvenated himself, while Vitiates vastly increased his power and made him immortal.

The fact that Viti had to absorb the essence of eight thousand Sith Lords and study the Force for 1.4 millennium and can only be ranked as comparable to Palpatine is an indictment of both the character and SWTOR's writers in general. Glad you see things my way, plebe.

Languish in your favorite character's inadequacy.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Him using a ritual would still be his power. Just not what he can perform in a fight or at will.

No one ever suggested he could drop that sort of mindhaxx in a fight. Only morons who endorse Viti play that card.