Sure, here Wolverine shows none of the skills you're claiming he remembers.
Sure, here Wolverine shows none of the skills you're claiming he remembers.
Nope not everyone first, and second, what I'm claiming is entirely possible considering the multiple real life examples we have. Plus, following a logical line of thinking, others agree Wolverine didn't forget his past skills. Others have said this very thing. So if he hasn't forgotten all his skills previously... why would he be less killed in X1? He wouldn't be, if anything, he'd be more skilled. So it's also logic that makes me believe Mystique is just that skilled. Unless of course you can prove Wolverine lost all his memories of how to fight from the bullet. I'm still waiting for that proof.
This has gone for a very long time without mention of Mystique's opponent.
Do you think Mystique can take down Bucky, Kurupt? Keep in mind Bucky is enhanced to a near SSS level, matched Cap in combat, and outdid him a few times. And both Cap/Bucky took down normal people a lot easier than Mystique.
There's also his arm she has to watch out for.
Originally posted by KingD19
This has gone for a very long time without mention of Mystique's opponent.Do you think Mystique can take down Bucky, Kurupt? Keep in mind Bucky is enhanced to a near SSS level, matched Cap in combat, and outdid him a few times. And both Cap/Bucky took down normal people a lot easier than Mystique.
There's also his arm she has to watch out for.
This all started with people saying Bucky was more skilled that Mystique and that couldn't be further from the truth. I never said who would win for sure, as I think it's a good fight. I certainly don't think it would be a walk in the park like some believe.
You also failed to mention that Mystique has gotten the better of people that Bucky nor Cap have ever gotten the better of. You failed to bring that up in your assessment. Getting the better of Wolverine is better than anything of Cap's or Bucky's resume. Then we factor her being more skilled and that is why I think it's a fight.
Lastly, how do you figure Cap or Bucky beat normal people easier than she did... I actually think it's he exact opposite.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
This all started with people saying Bucky was more skilled that Mystique and that couldn't be further from the truth. I never said who would win for sure, as I think it's a good fight. I certainly don't think it would be a walk in the park like some believe.You also failed to mention that Mystique has gotten the better of people that Bucky nor Cap have ever gotten the better of. You failed to bring that up in your assessment. Getting the better of Wolverine is better than anything of Cap's or Bucky's resume. Then we factor her being more skilled and that is why I think it's a fight.
Lastly, how do you figure Cap or Bucky beat normal people easier than she did... I actually think it's he exact opposite.
Okay. The only person we see Mystique fight of any worth is Logan in X1. And he's not that great a fighter in that movie as shown by how plodding and slow he is and how wildly he fights. He was getting banged up in the cage fight. He wasn't even outskilling Sabretooth in X1 and losing because he was bigger and stronger. He just got rekt period. Aside from that, Mystique only fights no names. So her one moment of triumph is against a guy who based on feats from four other movies, is clearly not performing to the best of his abilities.
Bucky on the other hand is an assassin with decades of kills under his belt and fought evenly with Cap; overcame him at points as well. And we have 3 movies of Cap showing just how skilled he is. The elevator fight alone speaks volumes for him and Bucky was matching him pretty much blow for blow every time they fought.
And Cap outfought Red Skull. A trained Nazi soldier with the exact same powers, who'd been fighting for a lot longer than Steve had. He also easily dispatched the Chitauri and one shotted pretty much every normal person he fought; even Batroc who surprised him before Cap decided to get serious.
Mystique's moves are more flash than Cap or Bucky, but that doesn't make her more skilled. Especially since we only see her take down goons and survive a fight with Wolverine despite winning for most of it.
Watch Captain America, Avengers, and Winter Soldier and see how Cap sends guys flying with punches and kicks, or just one shots them without much trouble. Mystique snapping necks with her thighs doesn't put her on that level at all. And Bucky was in that same strength range considering he booted a guy 15 feet away and fought evenly with Cap even with his human arm.
And again, she has to watch out for that arm. If Logan could stab her, then Bucky will definitely land hits. And just one will be devastating if not outright end the match for her.
From the movies, Mystique gives off more of a sneaky, stealthy type of vibe, an assassin who relies on surprise more often than not to catch her opponent off-guard. No doubt she is skilled, probably just as skilled as Black Widow in the Avengers movie universe.
Cap and Bucky seem a step up in power and the level of violence they are capable of, however. They are soldiers, enhanced to be super-soldiers, trained and engineered to take massive punishment and dealing out even more damage than they receive.
Nobody seems to suggest that Mystique would be capable of going toe-to-toe with Cap, yet in Winter Soldier's final fight Bucky showed that he could do exactly that. In the end, for me, it comes down to assassin versus soldier. Mystique's only winning strategy, based on the movies, would be catching Bucky by surprise, which seems unlikely. In a straight-up fight the only chance Mystique would have would be running like hell, imo.
Originally posted by Dreampanther
From the movies, Mystique gives off more of a sneaky, stealthy type of vibe, an assassin who relies on surprise more often than not to catch her opponent off-guard. No doubt she is skilled, probably just as skilled as Black Widow in the Avengers movie universe.Cap and Bucky seem a step up in power and the level of violence they are capable of, however. They are soldiers, enhanced to be super-soldiers, trained and engineered to take massive punishment and dealing out even more damage than they receive.
Nobody seems to suggest that Mystique would be capable of going toe-to-toe with Cap, yet in Winter Soldier's final fight Bucky showed that he could do exactly that. In the end, for me, it comes down to assassin versus soldier. Mystique's only winning strategy, based on the movies, would be catching Bucky by surprise, which seems unlikely. In a straight-up fight the only chance Mystique would have would be running like hell, imo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21S6vFtKLIM
I'm kinda unclear what you mean about her fights being about stealth and being sneaky. As we see her... many of her fights she just easily outclasses soldiers who are actively attacking her knowing she's a mutant. We literally see this over and over again. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Cap or Bucky handle soldiers better than she does... I don't see it personally. I also see mystique doing so with more skill, which is something I referenced before.
You act like she's some normal human and bucky only has to land one or two to win. I also strongly disagree with that notion. She's a mutant with enhanced abilities herself.. including strength.. healing etc etc. We see her totally heal from a stab to the gut or various other injuries. She clearly has a good healing factor and one might say even above Cap's or Bucky's. So this whole notion of landing a few blows and she's done isn't based on reality at all.
For me it comes down to Mystique being more skilled and the better h2h fighter than Bucky. She also has a healing factor that is beyond Bucky's. I would say Bucky is stronger than her.. especially because of the arm but not a lot stronger considering how Mystique was throwing and kicking people all over the place sending them flying. All in all I think people are underestimating mystique and her chances.
Originally posted by KingD19You keep forgetting that the wolverine you're saying hasn't showed much skills in the movies BEAT people Cap or Bucky could only dream of beating. Wolverine's best wins were BEFORE X1 and thus she beat a Wolverine who already had solid wins under his belt and she outclassed him easily.
Okay. The only person we see Mystique fight of any worth is Logan in X1. And he's not that great a fighter in that movie as shown by how plodding and slow he is and how wildly he fights. He was getting banged up in the cage fight. He wasn't even outskilling Sabretooth in X1 and losing because he was bigger and stronger. He just got rekt period. Aside from that, Mystique only fights no names. So her one moment of triumph is against a guy who based on feats from four other movies, is clearly not performing to the best of his abilities.Bucky on the other hand is an assassin with decades of kills under his belt and fought evenly with Cap; overcame him at points as well. And we have 3 movies of Cap showing just how skilled he is. The elevator fight alone speaks volumes for him and Bucky was matching him pretty much blow for blow every time they fought.
And Cap outfought Red Skull. A trained Nazi soldier with the exact same powers, who'd been fighting for a lot longer than Steve had. He also easily dispatched the Chitauri and one shotted pretty much every normal person he fought; even Batroc who surprised him before Cap decided to get serious.
Mystique's moves are more flash than Cap or Bucky, but that doesn't make her more skilled. Especially since we only see her take down goons and survive a fight with Wolverine despite winning for most of it.
Watch Captain America, Avengers, and Winter Soldier and see how Cap sends guys flying with punches and kicks, or just one shots them without much trouble. Mystique snapping necks with her thighs doesn't put her on that level at all. And Bucky was in that same strength range considering he booted a guy 15 feet away and fought evenly with Cap even with his human arm.
And again, she has to watch out for that arm. If Logan could stab her, then Bucky will definitely land hits. And just one will be devastating if not outright end the match for her.
That is always how wolverine fights and he still wins. You saying he fights wildly like a brawler is forgetting the cold hard fact that he won fights with what you call bad fighting skills. You can give whatever name you'd like to how he fights... it's worked but didn't work with her. She outclassed him and beat him with his claws. You guys are acting like Bucky's arm is some scary crazy thing to overcome. Overcoming Wolverine's claws is exponentially more dangerous and that is exactly what she did.
Wolverine is also a strong guy.. When they locked up.. she twisted him into a pretzel. So why exactly do you believe Bucky would man handle her when Wolverine never could?/ The fact is, Mystique is more skilled and the directors and choreographers go out of their way to slap us in the face with this fact. To say otherwise is being disingenuous. As I mentioned above people are also forgetting her healing factor which is top notch and better than Bucky's. All in all I think it's a good fight but people are selling mystique short here.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21S6vFtKLIMI'm kinda unclear what you mean about her fights being about stealth and being sneaky. As we see her... many of her fights she just easily outclasses soldiers who are actively attacking her knowing she's a mutant. We literally see this over and over again. I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that Cap or Bucky handle soldiers better than she does... I don't see it personally. I also see mystique doing so with more skill, which is something I referenced before.
You act like she's some normal human and bucky only has to land one or two to win. I also strongly disagree with that notion. She's a mutant with enhanced abilities herself.. including strength.. healing etc etc. We see her totally heal from a stab to the gut or various other injuries. She clearly has a good healing factor and one might say even above Cap's or Bucky's. So this whole notion of landing a few blows and she's done isn't based on reality at all.
For me it comes down to Mystique being more skilled and the better h2h fighter than Bucky. She also has a healing factor that is beyond Bucky's. I would say Bucky is stronger than her.. especially because of the arm but not a lot stronger considering how Mystique was throwing and kicking people all over the place sending them flying. All in all I think people are underestimating mystique and her chances.
Sneaky and stealthy - what I mean is, from what I can remember, most of Mystique's attacks start out with her in disguise, thereby catching her opponents by surprise, like for example where she saves the mutants from the military camp in DOFP. That is why she reminds me of Black Widow, who tends to do the same.
By your reasoning, saying Mystique is more skilled and a better h2h fighter than Bucky - would you then argue that Mystique would have won that last fight against Cap in Winter Soldier? Because I don't see that. I don't see Mystique standing toe-to-toe in a fight against Cap. I think he is in a league above her, while Bucky has proved that he is very nearly the equal of Cap.
As for the healing factor - sure she has a good healing factor, but Cap has nearly limitless stamina, which he demonstrated in the beginning of Winter Soldier. Therefore, I would suppose, so does Bucky. In Avengers Cap got blasted out of a window, crushing the roof of a car, when that Chitauri's grenade exploded. Then he just shrugged it off and went on fighting. This, IMO, shows how much damage a super soldier like Cap and Bucky can soak up without being slowed down.
I just don't see Mystique doing that much damage to somebody like Bucky.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You keep forgetting that the wolverine you're saying hasn't showed much skills in the movies BEAT people Cap or Bucky could only dream of beating.
I know this might derail this thread a bit more but humor me a moment. Who were these opponents that Wolverine soundly beat that Cap or WS could only DREAM of beating?