Originally posted by KingD19
Whoa whoa whoa. Forget everything else.You're saying the guy who punched a tank shell and had it blow up without any harm. Is getting his neck snapped by Mystique?
Yet he was almost KO'd by a headbutt. That whole scene was retarded. Blob punching wolverine anywhere should've hurt him just like the headbutt did.. yet it didn't... then he goes to headbutt him and gets almost KO'd... wow those must've been some super protective gloves huh
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Yet he was almost KO'd by a headbutt. That whole scene was retarded. Blob punching wolverine anywhere should've hurt him just like the headbutt did.. yet it didn't... then he goes to headbutt him and gets almost KO'd... wow those must've been some super protective gloves huh
Dude, punching someone in the face or jaw is not the same as punching someone in the forehead. If Blob punched Wolverine on the forehead without gloves on, who knows, it maybe would have hurt him.
Bottom line is, Blob hurt coz he headbutted someone with an adamantium skull. I don't see how you could conclude from this that Mystique is strong enough to snap his neck with her legs.
That was clearly for comical effect, because if a guy is strong enough to stick his fist in a tank barrel and have the shell explode and he's absolutely not hurt at all...a headbutt shouldn't do anything, even if it is Adamantium because despite how hard it is, Logan's not strong enough to put enough force behind a blow to concievably hurt him with blunt force trauma.
But hey let's play that game. Logan was a beast in Origins. Mystique gave him trouble in X1. He was clearly not as good in X1 as Origins. Mystique isn't all that great.
She loses to Bucky who is near Cap in stats, and above him when it comes to his arm. He's also a master assassin who only needs one hit with his arm to seriously injure her.
Because X1 came out before Origins? And when they put him in a solo movie, they really let him shine more than just having the movie focus on him.
Your logic doesn't supersede what is shown on screen as evidence. And what is shown is that he's clearly slower and not as skilled or hard hitting as he was in Origins.
Mystique loses. Especially since Bucky fought a guy who would wipe the floor with X1 Logan.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So tell me... how could he not be better in X1 having gained for experience and being in more fights? That makes zero logical sense
Well if you want to talk about it in a real world context: Fighters don't necessarily become better fighters when they get older. Some do, some decline. Wolverine in his earlier days was a soldier and was constantly on the run and getting in to fights. In X1 he was shown as a drifter seemingly without any direction to his life. You can get soft like that you know, when there's no decent fights around.
Besides, it's not like he was this incredibly skilled fighter in Origins. Better than he was in X1 but not that much better.
^^^^ You might have a point if Wolverine was just your average joe who got older and who's reflexes significantly decreased. That isn't the case with him, so we can eliminate most factors that apply to normal humans as they don't apply to him. Plus, let's not act like he was shown just living in a cave in the mountains doing nothing. Almost the first time we see him he's fighting in a cage against multiple foes in one night. His who character history is one of a fighter and one with a bad temper which leads to many altercations. He didn't go soft lying in bed watching soap operas. Wolverine knew just as much if not more during x1 as he did during Origins. It's really that simple
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Now go ahead and prove he lost his fighting memories and skills because of the bullet. He clearly had other memories that weren't messed with.
What memories weren't "messed with"? It was clearly shown that all Wolverine actually recalled was vague dreams about him being experimented on and running out with blood on his hands. Now it would be up to you to prove he had memories beyond that since it was never shown nor hinted at that he remembered much else. in fact the whole premise was that his memories were gone and Xavier was trying to help him get them back.
Since it has been established that he couldn't remember his past, and you are claiming that he remembers his fights prior to the magic bullets, then the burden is on you. I don't need to prove a negative(he didn't remember), you need to prove a positive(he did remember).
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Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
^^^^ You might have a point if Wolverine was just your average joe who got older and who's reflexes significantly decreased. That isn't the case with him, so we can eliminate most factors that apply to normal humans as they don't apply to him. Plus, let's not act like he was shown just living in a cave in the mountains doing nothing. Almost the first time we see him he's fighting in a cage against multiple foes in one night. His who character history is one of a fighter and one with a bad temper which leads to many altercations. He didn't go soft lying in bed watching soap operas. Wolverine knew just as much if not more during x1 as he did during Origins. It's really that simple
It's not about him getting old and slow, it's about him not being in an environment where he's constantly challenged by skilled opponents. You lose your edge if you don't have quality practice. He was fighting in a cage with humans who had no hope of properly hurting him. He was getting out-hit in that cage but again due to his healing factor and adamantium, he won out.
The point is, just because you're skilled at one point in your life doesn't mean you'll be that skilled forever.
Wolverine in X1 just didn't seem that skilled. He had no feats to show that he was anything more than a brawler. And this is the Wolverine that Mystique fought. Maybe he was more skilled earlier and later on in his life, but at this particular point he was not.
Originally posted by juggerman
What memories weren't "messed with"? It was clearly shown that all Wolverine actually recalled was vague dreams about him being experimented on and running out with blood on his hands. Now it would be up to you to prove he had memories beyond that since it was never shown nor hinted at that he remembered much else. in fact the whole premise was that his memories were gone and Xavier was trying to help him get them back.Since it has been established that he couldn't remember his past, and you are claiming that he remembers his fights prior to the magic bullets, then the burden is on you. I don't need to prove a negative(he didn't remember), you need to prove a positive(he did remember).
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Okay so just say you don't know how to argue. HE claimed that he lost ALL his memories. So that was never my claim to prove. He claimed all his memories were lost including fighting skills. The onus lies DIRECTLY on you or anyone to prove such a claim. We see him talking just fine.. we see him talking just fine... Thus he clearly didn't lose all his memories and functions. Thus, if you have proof he lost his fighting skills but kept other memories than by all means PROVE IT. However, don't try and shift the burden to me. I didn't make the claim nor do I have to prove a negative. Good try though.
Further, much like walking... fighting and hunting are natural instincts for animals. The movies go out of their way to slap us in the face about wolverine being an animal and instinctual. Yet, he could walk and talk just fine but lost all memories on how to fight. Prove it
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Okay so just say you don't know how to argue. HE claimed that he lost ALL his memories. So that was never my claim to prove. He claimed all his memories were lost including fighting skills. The onus lies DIRECTLY on you or anyone to prove such a claim. We see him talking just fine.. we see him talking just fine... Thus he clearly didn't lose all his memories and functions. Thus, if you have proof he lost his fighting skills but kept other memories than by all means PROVE IT. However, don't try and shift the burden to me. I didn't make the claim nor do I have to prove a negative. Good try though.Further, much like walking... fighting and hunting are natural instincts for animals. The movies go out of their way to slap us in the face about wolverine being an animal and instinctual. Yet, he could walk and talk just fine but lost all memories on how to fight. Prove it
Here let's cut right to it shall we without all the dancing?
Are you of the opinion that Wolverine REMEMBERS his prior fights? Yes or no?
Originally posted by FrothByte
It's not about him getting old and slow, it's about him not being in an environment where he's constantly challenged by skilled opponents. You lose your edge if you don't have quality practice. He was fighting in a cage with humans who had no hope of properly hurting him. He was getting out-hit in that cage but again due to his healing factor and adamantium, he won out.The point is, just because you're skilled at one point in your life doesn't mean you'll be that skilled forever.
Wolverine in X1 just didn't seem that skilled. He had no feats to show that he was anything more than a brawler. And this is the Wolverine that Mystique fought. Maybe he was more skilled earlier and later on in his life, but at this particular point he was not.
Exactly.
Originally posted by juggerman
Here let's cut right to it shall we without all the dancing?Are you of the opinion that Wolverine REMEMBERS his prior fights? Yes or no?
I'm of the opinion that he very well could've and we simply do not know exactly what was lost and what remained. He clearly didn't forgot how to walk and talk and certain other physical functions. So he very well might remember his fighting skills and what he's learned. He clearly was able to keep some things he learned. Regardless, we'd still be left with the fact that fighting and hunting are very instinctual things... thus even under the worst scenario i.e. the director saying he lost all his memories of fights.. I'd still argue fighting is still instinctual and he had been doing plenty of that after said bullet incident. We clearly see him fighting for sport so he still loves that and seeks it out. Thus, if he did loss something.. much of it is instinctual and he had been fighting for many years afterwards gaining back what he lost. Now, I'll ask you.. do you know for a fact he lost all his memories on how to fight?