Originally posted by psmith81992
Palpatine's force storm isn't better than Vitiate's planet destroying ritual, lol.
Lmao
I'm not surprised you made such a stupid claim, considering you missed the point of my steroid analogy, and instead tried to convert it to a topic in an attempt convince others of your "expertise" in body building (you're so manly lol).
I'm not sure if he needed 8,000 sith lords or if it was his way of getting rid of competition. Point is, it left the entire planet devoid of the force and caused the greatest force nexus the galaxy would ever see.
I could bring an example of how he exterminated the entire dark council without knowing the technique.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lolno you didn't. You went on to who you thought had the best showing period and how Sidious' lack of prep somehow made him impressive at prep. Then you went on to a feat Sidious didn't accomplish alone. This is about the greater showing of prep, which Sidious doesn't have. I don't care about what you believe he can do, he didn't do it. Plain and simple.
I missed this.
It is plain and simple, which is why I don't see how you're unable to grasp. Reread my response to you and the following posts from me, as I can't explain it in a simpler way.
Again, Palpatine not needing prep to achieve far superior feats, does not make Vitiate a god at prep unless his prep allowed him to achieve feats superior to Sidious' (it never has). Palpatine's natural gifts with respect to abilities that are usable in prep can be used better in a vs match than a feat we know absolutely nothing about other than it happened, unless you're implying that Palpatine's natural abilities only aid him in prep with more complex situations than it would for one on one battle, which would be a rather silly suggestion. Palpatine's success speaks for itself when it comes to prep. Prepping for a one on one battle would certainly be much, much easier.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Basically Palpatine is better than Vitiate in just about everything.And no, you can't use it unless you can explain how it would work on someone like Talzin. Palpatine having unmatched far sight, the ability to cloud the minds of thousands, and influencing the minds of thousands of jedi at once, are all qualities of his that can be used in a vs thread since we know exactly how it worked and where it got him. In conjunction with his far superior force powers, Palpatine's prep related qualities would make him the god of prep if we put him and Vitiate against each other in a thread wherein both have prep, considering that you just some what admitted that Palpatine, without prep, would demolish a Vitiate with prep.
Also, why would I be offensive at Palpatine producing far more destructive power than a prepped Vitiate? It just suggest how much superior he is to Vitiate.
Well I guess "just about everything" doesn't include prep, huh?
I can use it because Talzin is a being who can be affected by the Force and theres no reason to think she has immunity to attacks. And no, none of those things are relevant to a vs match. Maybe he can brag about how great he is at non-combative abilities while Vitiate is rodgering him bloody with a lightning bolt. Palpatine is not the god of prep. He has never actually utilised prep against an opponent in a notable fashion. And I admitted no such thing, I stated that I didn't care whether he was superior without it or not.
I think you meant "offended by". And "suggests". "How much superior" also sounds pretty clunky to me. You can really tell how annoyed you are at the prospect of Sidious being inferior in something to Vitiate by all these mistakes.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Palpatine's prep-related force qualities do reflect his ability to utilize it in personal combat. How is this hard to grasp? LolWhen you said Vitiate was the god of prep, I was assuming you meant in the entire history of SW, so bringing up Palpatine's force storm wasn't pointless. I just felt the need to remind you that Palpatine is miles better than Vitiate.
Sidious taking over the galaxy through careful subterfuge and manipulation doesn't reflect anything about his ability to fight using prep.
I didn't call him the god of prep. And if you look back, when you thought Sidious was being termed as such you were talking about his CW persona that fought Talzin. So that's what we're talking about here.
Oh and also go **** yourself.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
*snip*
Originally posted by psmith81992
I'd like a response as well for why the Force Storm is superior to Vitiate's ritual?
The Dark Empire Sourcebook and The Jedi Path both confirm that the reborn Emperor's Force storms could cause planetary destruction and, as FreshestSlice noted, the Emperor can summon them without aid or preparation.
FreshestSlice
Unless Palpatine's prepped feats are above Vitiate's, Vitiate has the higher prepped feat, and thus reigns supreme in that category. I don't give a shit what you think he can do. I don't care about what he has done in other areas. I don't care that he is more powerful. I don't care about his accolades. I don't care about how many people he's killed straight up, and I don't care about great his combat record is. He doesn't have better prepped feats, so does not have the best showing in a prepped v prepped match up.
The problem is that, as you've conceded, unprepped!Palpatine has better feats than prepped!Vitiate. With that in mind and given that Sidious is a peer of Vitiate at the very least with respect to power and knowledge, why would we assume Sidious is incapable of matching or exceeding Vitiate?
Relying on feats and feats alone to draw conclusions is a slippery slope, particularly in defense of Vitiate.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The problem is that, as you've conceded, unprepped!Palpatine has better feats than prepped!Vitiate. With that in mind and given that Sidious is a peer of Vitiate at the very least with respect to power and knowledge, why would we assume Sidious is incapable of matching or exceeding Vitiate?Relying on feats and feats alone to draw conclusions is a slippery slope, particularly in defense of Vitiate.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes that would be a problem, if I weren't saying that Vitiate has the best prep feats in the mythos, which is what I was saying. "Nah, Sidious is better so he can prep better," really doesn't matter to the claim I made.
Do you English, my son?
You conceded that unprepped!Sidious has better feats than prepped!Vitiate, yes? Given that Sidious is, at the very least, a peer of Vitiate's on every level (intelligence, Force knowledge, Force resources, etc.), it's not at all unreasonable to conclude that Sidious might very well rival or surpass Vitiate in that realm as well, since we've already established that Sidious's best unprepped feat tops Vitiate's best prepped.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Do you English, my son?You conceded that unprepped!Sidious has better feats than prepped!Vitiate, yes? Given that Sidious is, at the very least, a peer of Vitiate's on every level (intelligence, Force knowledge, Force resources, etc.), it's not at all unreasonable to conclude that Sidious might very well rival or surpass Vitiate in that realm as well, since we've already established that Sidious's best unprepped feat tops Vitiate's best prepped.
Originally posted by psmith81992
What "unprepped" feat does sidious have that's better than anything Vitiate has prepped? The force storm was prepped.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well I guess "just about everything" doesn't include prep, huh?I can use it because Talzin is a being who can be affected by the Force and theres no reason to think she has immunity to attacks. And no, none of those things are relevant to a vs match. Maybe he can brag about how great he is at non-combative abilities while Vitiate is rodgering him bloody with a lightning bolt. Palpatine is not the god of prep. He has never actually utilised prep against an opponent in a notable fashion. And I admitted no such thing, I stated that I didn't care whether he was superior without it or not.
I think you meant "offended by". And "suggests". "How much superior" also sounds pretty clunky to me. You can really tell how annoyed you are at the prospect of Sidious being Vitiate inferior in something by all these mistakes.
When you said "I don't give a shit if Sidious is better without it," I thought that was in response to my suggestion that destroying fleets of ships without prep >>>>>>>>>> destroying the dark council with prep.
Lol @ Vitiate frying Palpatine with lightning. If you want to get silly, I could make a far better case for Sidious speed blitzing Vitiate considering he has speed feats for me to easily make that case, which is something I guarantee you wouldn't be able to refute. The fact that I don't use that as an argument despite him having the feats, should tell you that I'm not getting annoyed. Regardless, Palpatine has better lightning feats than Vitiate and if they both had prep, all he'd have to do is destroy Vitiate and his entire dark temple with a single attack. Hell, Palpatine could do that without prep as long as he's at a safe distance.
No, Palpatine utilized prep in a far more complex situation. Prepping himself to take out a single opponent would be much simpler. As I said, his success speaks for itself with regards to prep. If you want to make a vs thread and give both Palpatine and Vitiate prep, I guarantee you Palpatine would come out on top on account of having better feats along with being equipped with force powers that play a major role in prep.
As for Talzin, considering that she has prep and is on her planet with the ability to instantly teleport, you'd need to prove that Vitiate's attack would do the same to a prepped Talzin. Also, she has better reflexes and battle speed on account of matching Windu in that area, so what's to stop her from disintegrating Vitiate with her green mist first. She also has the ability to produce fire at a certain target with the wave of her hand, so what's to stop her from burning Vitiate from the inside out? Of course you're going to argue that since we didn't see her utilize these abilities in mid-combat that she is unable to despite the ease in which she's shown to perform them. However, you want me to accept that Vitiate would defeat her with some power that you know nothing about. Double standards is your style of debating after all.
Double standards are for those who are desperate to win an argument, which usually turns out to be the ones who are getting annoyed. I make mistakes all the time. As long as my point is made clear, I don't care about them. Even if I didn't make any mistakes, it's hard for the delusional fangirls to get the point.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Sidious taking over the galaxy through careful subterfuge and manipulation doesn't reflect anything about his ability to fight using prep.
Prep is prep, wtf (lmao). It reflects his ability to plan ahead (which is what you do when you are, you know, given prep), and was largely accomplished by using his force powers, such as his unmatched far sight, clouding the minds of every jedi in the order, using rituals to manipulate thousands of force users across the galaxy all at once, and maintaining his hold over the force. These are all areas of force powers that can be used by Sidious in a vs thread, along with his superior displays of force powers in general. But, by all means, keep harping on Vitiate prepping himself to amp his force powers to take on 12 force users. All you're proving is that Vitiate requires prep to do things Palpatine can do without prep, except to a far lesser extent.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I didn't call him the god of prep. And if you look back, when you thought Sidious was being termed as such you were talking about his CW persona that fought Talzin. So that's what we're talking about here.
I was being sarcastic with that first post. I knew he was talking about Vitiate, so, no, I didn't think his CW persona was being termed as such. I was referring to Sidious as being the god of prep due to the fact that he is the best at it in SW.
I brought up his force storm as a way to suggest that Palpatine not requiring prep to perform feats far greater than a Vitiate with prep, doesn't mean Vitiate is his superior in prep, considering he's never did anything superior to Palpatine even with it. The fact that Palpatine is better even without prep, would logically determine Sidious would overcome Vitiate if they both are given prep, considering the things Palpatine's achieved with the help of his force powers, which would in turn indicate Palpatine is superior in the area of prep.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Unless Palpatine's prepped feats are above Vitiate's, Vitiate has the higher prepped feat, and thus reigns supreme in that category. I don't give a shit what you think he can do. I don't care about what he has done in other areas. I don't care that he is more powerful. I don't care about his accolades. I don't care about how many people he's killed straight up, and I don't care about great his combat record is. He doesn't have better prepped feats, so does not have the best showing in a prepped v prepped match up.
Palpatine's usage of prep is far superior to Vitiate's, and is therefore more usable in a vs match if we were to compare them. I also couldn't give a shit about Vitiate requiring prep to do something Sidious would be able to do without prep. That's like saying Talzin is better at prep because she nearly killed Dooku from a distance of light years with prep, which is something Sidious could do just by closing his fist without prep. Palpatine's use of prep and success in far more complex situations, trumps beating 12 force users with prep.
As I said, Palpatine's more destructive feats in conjunction with his prep-related fore abilities can be put to use in a vs match better than some unknown feat of Vitiate's that required prep. How is this even being argued?
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I am not your son, and you are an awful father if you think that because Vitiate's best prepped feat is below Sidious' best unprepped feat, that Sidious somehow has a better prepped feat. I think Vitiate has the best prepped feat in the mythos. It's not the best feat. It's the best prepped feat. I don't care about what Sidious is capable of.
I didn't say that Sidious has the best prepped feat. What I'm saying is that if Sidious without prep trumps Vitiate with prep and Sidious at the very least rivals Vitiate in all the things that factor into prep (knowledge, intelligence, resources, etc.), then it is reasonable to conclude that Sidious may very well be Vitiate's better in that aspect as well.
Kinda like how Vitiate has no speed feats to speak of, right? So if we followed the "lolz feats only" paradigm, a convincing case could be made that Sidious would give Viti the Agen Kolar treatment. But that's silly, right? So we infer, based on Viti's considerable strength in the Force and mastery of it, that he's powerful enough to be effectively non-blitzable and would, if necessary, be capable of impressive speed feats.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Palpatine's usage of prep is far superior to Vitiate's, and is therefore more usable in a vs match if we were to compare them. I also couldn't give a shit about Vitiate requiring prep to do something Sidious would be able to do without prep. That's like saying Talzin is better at prep because she nearly killed Dooku from a distance of light years with prep, which is something Sidious could do just by closing his fist without prep. Palpatine's use of prep and success in far more complex situations, trumps beating 12 force users with prep.
As I said, Palpatine's more destructive feats in conjunction with his prep-related fore abilities can be put to use in a vs match better than some unknown feat of Vitiate's that required prep. How is this even being argued?
Who has the best prepped feat? Vitiate. He's soloed several high level Force-users at once. Sacrificed planets. And dominated thousands of people at once over an extended period of time.
If you don't care that this is an amazing prepped feat and beyond anything Sidious has done with prep, which is the point of the observation, feel free to no longer reply.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I didn't say that Sidious has the best prepped feat. What I'm saying is that if Sidious without prep trumps Vitiate with prep and Sidious at the very least rivals Vitiate in all the things that factor into prep (knowledge, intelligence, resources, etc.), then it is reasonable to conclude that Sidious may very well be Vitiate's better in that aspect as well.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yes that would be a problem, if I weren't saying that Vitiate has the best prep feats in the mythos, which is what I was saying.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Kinda like how Vitiate has no speed feats to speak of, right? So if we followed the "lolz feats only" paradigm, a convincing case could be made that Sidious would give Viti the Agen Kolar treatment. But that's silly, right? So we infer, based on Viti's considerable strength in the Force and mastery of it, that he's powerful enough to be effectively non-blitzable and would, if necessary, be capable of impressive speed feats.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Not the point.Also not the point.
Who has the best prepped feat? Vitiate. He's soloed several high level Force-users at once. Sacrificed planets. And dominated thousands of people at once over an extended period of time.
If you don't care that this is an amazing prepped feat and beyond anything Sidious has done with prep, which is the point of the observation, feel free to no longer reply.
Lol, I'm done.