Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Because having less body parts shouldn't stop you from reaching any potential, the reason we're given in game. Anyone, I spoke on potential because those were the words I saw. I see nothing that shows Galen had more potential than anyone, not even his clone.
Where did I say Galen had more potential than his clone, Vader, or anyone? What I said was he legitimately defeated Vader in the TFU novel, which he did.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
In sabers, sure he'd win pretty comfortably, but in the Force? Marek was more powerful in the Force than Vader, and I would put Vader above ROTS Anakin in that regard. Vader may not have Anakin's potential anymore, but he was still 80% of Palpatine and, by this time, had spent that last 17 years honing and refining his abilities.
This is what I said. I was referring to Vader and Anakin. I would put Vader above ROTS Anakin in Force power, even after his injuries on Mustafar. If we're going to use Vader's learning curve between TFU and TFUII (6 months), then it stands to reason got exponentially more powerful from ROTS to TFU. That's not a knock against Anakin. He was a beast.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
How does it not make any sense? Vader is weaker, potentially, as he is 80% of Palpatine, where as Anakin could've become 200% of Palpatine. The TFU novel shows Marek is more powerful than Vader, and he legitimately defeated him in sabers. As this is Galen Marek and not Starkiller, TFUII shouldn't really come into play, unless the OP was asking if Marek could beat TFUII Vader.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
This is what I said. I was referring to Vader and Anakin. I would put Vader above ROTS Anakin in Force power, even after his injuries on Mustafar. If we're going to use Vader's learning curve between TFU and TFUII (6 months), then it stands to reason got exponentially more powerful from ROTS to TFU. That's not a knock against Anakin. He was a beast.
TFU was 2 years before Yavin, so while he may not be at his peak, he was hardly a ways away. This also the same Vader who took on 5 Jedi the same year as Mustufar, and spent the last 17 years hunting down Jedi. This isn't a knock against Skywalker. I think Anakin has better saber skills, but Vader's power in the Force was greater by TFU.
Originally posted by FreshestSliceI wonder what happened to starkiller after the battle of kamino, he either was on alderaan when the empire blew it up with the Death Star, or left the alliance and became a bounty hunter or ran away some where with Juno.
Vader has to adapt from being a cripple to reaching the same strength he had before. If Vader in TFU fought Vader in RotS he would die. Where as Vader in TFU II is shamed by the defeat at the hands of his former apprentice and trains more. Vader does a similar thing after ANH.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
TFU was 2 years before Yavin, so while he may not be at his peak, he was hardly a ways away. This also the same Vader who took on 5 Jedi the same year as Mustufar, and spent the last 17 years hunting down Jedi. This isn't a knock against Skywalker. I think Anakin has better saber skills, but Vader's power in the Force was greater by TFU.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
So Vader spent 17 years hunting down and fighting Jedi, but didn't improve his abilities in the Force by TFU?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
After fighting someone closer to his level, ie. Marek and Starkiller, and after Sidious trying to replace him, it's likely that he stepped it up a notch and did some really hardcore training.
You make some really good points, and I agree he kicked into overdrive after TFU. It still begs the question: do you believe Vader was weaker in the Force (power, not potential) by TFU than he was as Anakin per ROTS? I'm enjoying this debate.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
You make some really good points, and I agree he kicked into overdrive after TFU. It still begs the question: do you believe Vader was weaker in the Force (power, not potential) by TFU than he was as Anakin per ROTS? I'm enjoying this debate.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I'd say ROTJ Vader>ESB Vader>ROTS Anakin/Vader>ANH Vader>TFU II Vader=TFU II Starkiller>TFU I Starkiller>TFU Vader
Hmm, I guess it's possible I had it all mixed up. You do seem to know your stuff. I don't know if I'd put Anakin that high, though. Are you talking sabers, Force, or everything? TFUII Starkiller survived planetary reentry by enveloping himself in the Force, and TFU Starkiller was throwing around ATSTs and ATATs, if I'm not mistaken.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Hmm, I guess it's possible I had it all mixed up. You do seem to know your stuff. I don't know if I'd put Anakin that high, though. Are you talking sabers, Force, or everything? TFUII Starkiller survived planetary reentry by enveloping himself in the Force, and TFU Starkiller was throwing around ATSTs and ATATs, if I'm not mistaken.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I was talking everything... but mainly power as it applies to single combat.
Well, it's been established Marek was more powerful than Vader, but if TFU Vader was that far behind his other incarnations, then I concede to you, sir. As far as this thread goes, it would be Marek, though.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Well, it's been established Marek was more powerful than Vader, but if TFU Vader was that far behind his other incarnations, then I concede to you, sir. As far as this thread goes, it would be Marek, though.
but they seemed to be dead even in the second game
Originally posted by Emperordmb
well Marek was greater in the first gamebut they seemed to be dead even in the second game
My first exposure was from the books, so that's the character I usually go with. I didn't play the games until much later. I agree Marek seemed greater in the first book. I wish there was more information the Dark Apprentice, though. He could be the strongest version overall.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
My first exposure was from the books, so that's the character I usually go with. I didn't play the games until much later. I agree Marek seemed greater in the first book. I wish there was more information the Dark Apprentice, though. He could be the strongest version overall.
either way the two seemed dead even in TFU II.
Agreed, Dark Apprentic>all other Mareks.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
by game I meant overall story...either way the two seemed dead even in TFU II.
Agreed, Dark Apprentic>all other Mareks.
My apologies. I wasn't trying to imply that's what you meant. I was just adding that bit about the books because I don't follow the in-game theories, such as TFUII Starkiller winning with lightning rods, as they weren't in the book.