Originally posted by NemeBro
Man, you are one optimistic mother****er dadudemon.
Couple of things:
1. I am most certainly a motherf***er. There should be no question about that.
2. I think GRRM rolled some dice with a few of the characters. Assigned them numbers, rolled the dice, and if their number came up, he killed them off. This is why I was hopeful for Q. I was thinking he was one of those whose numbers didn't come up.
Originally posted by Nephthys
He's the most unintentionally hilarious character in the books. "I am of the Night." Lmao, what the ****? How could GRRM think that was cool? He's like a phaggy hot-topic poser who tries way too hard to be badass. You could just feel Martin trying to make him as cool as possible and utterly failing at every step. Obviously trying to replace Oberyns natural badassery except he could only manage the completely forced "woah, this guy is super handsome and deadly and boasts about how cool he is, what a total panty-drencher."He the Westeros version of Poochy, is what I'm saying.
I read the character the same way as you, but I thought that was GRRM's intention.
Okay, so the Great Other god is the god that runs opposite of the Red God, R'hllor. It is hinted that Bran is one of the Great Other's champions like Stannis is R'hllor's champion. This is due to a vision the Melisandre had regarding the Great Other. I can't be arsed to get the quote, now, but it basically identifies Bran.
So does this mean that the Last Greenseer is the Great Other and he's actually behind The Others/Whitewalkers? If so, does that mean Bran and co. are actually the villains?
I'm not so sure I buy into some ancient dark god or one of his servants/champions serving as the final villain of the series. Seems a bit to "tropeish".
With that said, Bran certainly seems on the road to becoming a villain. And it seems he is going to become an Old God or at least one of the beings that the religion was based on.
Ultimately, I guess, I just don't think any gods actually exist in the world of ASOIAF. There are powerful sorcerers and god-like beings but no actual gods.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Okay, so the Great Other god is the god that runs opposite of the Red God, R'hllor. It is hinted that Bran is one of the Great Other's champions like Stannis is R'hllor's champion. This is due to a vision the Melisandre had regarding the Great Other. I can't be arsed to get the quote, now, but it basically identifies Bran.So does this mean that the Last Greenseer is the Great Other and he's actually behind The Others/Whitewalkers? If so, does that mean Bran and co. are actually the villains?
You think Stannis is the chamption of R'hllor? And why do you assume that the Red God is the good guy?
Originally posted by ares834How do you define god though?
I'm not so sure I buy into some ancient dark god or one of his servants/champions serving as the final villain of the series. Seems a bit to "tropeish".With that said, Bran certainly seems on the road to becoming a villain. And it seems he is going to become an Old God or at least one of the beings that the religion was based on.
Ultimately, I guess, I just don't think any gods actually exist in the world of ASOIAF. There are powerful sorcerers and god-like beings but no actual gods.
I mean the gods of classical and Norse mythology were more or less just humans, only bigger.
Originally posted by Bardock42
You think Stannis is the chamption of R'hllor? And why do you assume that the Red God is the good guy?
I don't think that, he IS. At least that's what he's trying to be. Stannis is unquestionably the Red God's champion.
Originally posted by Robtard
Jon is Azor Ahai reborn, Stannis is just a dick who believes the world owes him something. Stannis would make the best king at the moment though.
Jon? I thought that was Bran?
Originally posted by ares834
I'm not so sure I buy into some ancient dark god or one of his servants/champions serving as the final villain of the series. Seems a bit to "tropeish".
There's too much foreshadowing and much of the series is pointing to a final clash with The Others. Since The Others are supposed to be the servants of the Great Other (or at least in his/her employ), the Great Other would be the ultimate evil.
Originally posted by ares834
With that said, Bran certainly seems on the road to becoming a villain. And it seems he is going to become an Old God or at least one of the beings that the religion was based on.
Yes, to the Red God, he would be a villain because Melisandre's vision showed Bran as being the Great Other's champion...which makes him a bad-guy from some character's perspectives.
Originally posted by ares834
Ultimately, I guess, I just don't think any gods actually exist in the world of ASOIAF. There are powerful sorcerers and god-like beings but no actual gods.
R'hllor most certainly exists. We just don't know what type of being he is. Probably other gods exist, too. Almost all of them can be considered demi-Gods. Daedric beings like in the Elder Scrolls series.
Originally posted by dadudemon
I don't think that, he IS. At least that's what he's trying to be. Stannis is unquestionably the Red God's champion.
Well, fair enough, he champions the Red God, whether he was chosen by the Red God to be his "champion" (as in Azor Ahai reborn) is more questionable. Personally, I also believe Jon Snow to be the one, if there is one.
Originally posted by NemeBro
How do you define god though?I mean the gods of classical and Norse mythology were more or less just humans, only bigger.
Basically, beings that are incredibly powerful and responsible for the creation of the world/humans.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Stannis is unquestionably the Red God's champion.
Originally posted by dadudemon
There's too much foreshadowing and much of the series is pointing to a final clash with The Others. Since The Others are supposed to be the servants of the Great Other (or at least in his/her employ), the Great Other would be the ultimate evil.
Eh… There isn’t much connecting the Others to the Great Other other than the name.
Originally posted by dadudemon
R'hllor most certainly exists. We just don't know what type of being he is. Probably other gods exist, too. Almost all of them can be considered demi-Gods. Daedric beings like in the Elder Scrolls series.
Based on? Like I said the priests are most likely sorcerers and their “miracles” aren’t divine powers but magic. This is based on the fact that even priests such as Thoros went from being unable to perform any “miracles” to resurrecting the dead with the return of dragons.
Originally posted by Eminence
😬
Why is this a point of contention? There really is not wiggle room since Melisandre did not mince words regarding Stannis' position. This is both a destiny thing and a choice thing for Stannis. Melisandre thinks it is Stannis' destiny. It is also his choice to fulfill that role if he wants it (which he does and continues to fulfill).
So if I choose to be, say, become a Catholic, I become a Catholic. If you choose to be a Champion of R'Hllor, you become one. Whether or not that is in your destiny is determined by "The Gods" or "God", depending on your religious beliefs in the books. Basically, Stannis joined a faction in a war and he's the highest ranking person in that faction so he defaults to the champion of the faction's cause. This is what I referred to as unquestionable. There is a case for Jon being a champion in that same faction but, as we can see in the books, Jon appears to be moderately subservient in some regards to Stannis.
Originally posted by ares834
Basically, beings that are incredibly powerful and responsible for the creation of the world/humans.
I can agree with that. Did you like my comparison to Daedric Princes? I think those are excellent parallels.
Originally posted by ares834
Huh?
I explained it in better detail to the other dude so look at my reply to him to see my response to this question of yours.
Originally posted by ares834
Eh… There isn’t much connecting the Others to the Great Other other than the name.
I don't understand...Melisandre did not make it ambiguous. They serve the Great Other AND Melisandre refers to The Others as the "children" of the Great Other. Whether or not the Great Other actually exists has yet to be established. It could be The Other's religious belief, we don't know. But the connection is there.
Originally posted by ares834
Based on?
Feats of magic. Numerous, even. Well, and the fact that Melisandre and others say they have seen R'Hllor in visions.
Also, we know some beings of magical power exist: the shades that killed people, the demon thing that Varys saw heard when that sorcerer dude was burning his balls.*
The beings are there. Sure, they are subtle, but there are some sort of magical beings at play in the background.
Originally posted by ares834
Like I said the priests are most likely sorcerers and their “miracles” aren’t divine powers but magic. This is based on the fact that even priests such as Thoros went from being unable to perform any “miracles” to resurrecting the dead with the return of dragons.
Then this particular set of magic is R'Hllor. Concepts of dieties do not have to be localized to a corporeal being.
*I'd like to point out that Varys story creeped me out. The whole thing was creepy. Fiction very very very rarely creeps me out because they are just words (I'm much more of an Audio Visual person). But when I was reading Varys story and his description of that monster he saw/heard, got the creeps. That was a well written story because we didn't experience it first hand: we were being told the story by a character who experienced it. I think that made it creepier.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, fair enough, he champions the Red God, whether he was chosen by the Red God to be his "champion" (as in Azor Ahai reborn) is more questionable. Personally, I also believe Jon Snow to be the one, if there is one.
Just saw this post. That's all fair and reasonable. Melisandre would disagree with you but we as the reader get the privilege of not having to believe in her religion. 🙂 R'Hllor very well could turn out to be the same god as all the others at play and he/she was just manipulating all the humans as various incarnations (this is not a new concept regarding dieties....some thing that Satan and God are the same being, for instance).
Originally posted by dadudemon
Jon? I thought that was Bran?
I don't think Bran has much to do with R'hllor. To me is seems that GRRM is going to make Jon Azor Ahai reborn and Stannis is just a false idol so to speak.
Now I'm uncertain if Melisandre knew this all along and was just using him and his insane wife to further her ends.