SWTOR Revan, Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Lord Scourge vs Full-Power Vitiate

Originally posted by Nephthys
His words are still non-official and completely meaningless. My opinion has as much weight as that email.

Cool story. If Karpyshyn's testament alone was in play, you might have a point. But he himself says he bases his commentary on the events of the game and the book. Which makes sense, since I was peddling this theory based on the same shit years before he made his stance known on it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Actually if you'd recall I had your back at the beginning. After learning more about him and playing the game I was convinced of the other sides argument.

The other side, per Word of God, doesn't really have a credible position. From the looks of it, you jumped ship from my luxury yacht teeming with b1tches and booze onto a sinking dinghy. 👆

Originally posted by Nephthys
Um, Tol Braga was kind of there when it happened and obviously their minds were linked at the time. He would know if it only took Vitiate a single flex of his will to dominate him.

How would he know?

Originally posted by Nephthys
A nexus would boost Scourge just as it would Vitiate so that's pointless to point out and Vitiate didn't know he was coming until like 10 seconds before he walked in.

They also have a multi-page conversation prior to Vitiate's psychic "attack."

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's an exaggeration, but it still implies that Vitiate needs no preparation and that corruption is a simply process for him to perform.

Bingo, the truth at last: you're armed with a handful of hyperbolic implications and speculation. I've got evidence and author's commentary; I hold the winning hand.

I'll throw you a life vest. It's time to take it, bro.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Cool story. If Karpyshyn's testament alone was in play, you might have a point. But he himself says he bases his commentary on the events of the game and the book. Which makes sense, since I was peddling this theory based on the same shit years before he made his stance known on it.

Karpyshan is notably incompetent, since theres nothing in the game or book that indicates he needs preparation to do it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
The other side, per Word of God, doesn't really have a credible position. From the looks of it, you jumped ship from my luxury yacht teeming with b1tches and booze onto a sinking dinghy. 👆

It is like the Matrix, where your side may seem more appealing than mine but it isn't since it is all a lie and my awful porridge tastes much better since it is the truth.

Go **** off Cipher.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
How would he know?

I think he would know the details of his own mental assault. 😬

Originally posted by The_Tempest
They also have a multi-page conversation prior to Vitiate's psychic "attack."

And theres no indication of Vitiate preparing for anything. It was a mere brush of his mind, which doesn't require prep to perform as per canon.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Bingo, the truth at last: you're armed with a handful of hyperbolic implications and speculation. I've got evidence and author's commentary; I hold the winning hand.

I'll throw you a life vest. It's time to take it, bro.

You have no evidence and a worthless opinion. Thanks but I'll stick to my shitty gruel.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Karpyshan is notably incompetent, since theres nothing in the game or book that indicates he needs preparation to do it.

He's a notably incompetent novelist; there's no sign of early-onset alzheimer's or dementia.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It is like the Matrix, where your side may seem more appealing than mine but it isn't since it is all a lie and my awful porridge tastes much better since it is the truth.

Go **** off Cipher.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think he would know the details of his own mental assault. 😬

From the mind of the assailant? Doubt it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And theres no indication of Vitiate preparing for anything. It was a mere brush of his mind, which doesn't require prep to perform as per canon.

Proof, bro?

Originally posted by Nephthys
You have no evidence and a worthless opinion. Thanks but I'll stick to my shitty gruel.

Actually, it indeed does appear that someone is suffering from early-onset alzheimer's or dementia:

Nephthys
Actually if you'd recall I had your back at the beginning.

If I didn't have any evidence, you'd have never had my back at the beginning. Which means you, sir, are a liar and a cad.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He's a notably incompetent novelist; there's no sign of early-onset alzheimer's or dementia.

This is the same man who wrote a chapter for Revan that had Carth and other companions in it and forgot to put it in the final draft.

His memory is terrible, if nothing else.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
From the mind of the assailant? Doubt it.

Since he's the guy experiencing Vitiates mental attack, he'd obviously know. 😬

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof, bro?

Other examples of telepathy don't require any prep-time to perform. Theres tons of times when characters have simply touched anothers mind as Vitiate does in that scene without requiring preparation.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Actually, it indeed does appear that someone is suffering from early-onset alzheimer's or dementia:

If I didn't have any evidence, you'd have never had my back at the beginning. Which means you, sir, are a liar and a cad.

You only had an argument when everyone here was ignorant of the facts about Vitiate and before every form of "proof" you tried presenting was obliterated.

Originally posted by Nephthys
This is the same man who wrote a chapter for Revan that had Carth and other companions in it and forgot to put it in the final draft.

His memory is terrible, if nothing else.

Me
Proof, bro?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since he's the guy experiencing Vitiates mental attack, he'd obviously know. 😬

He'd "obviously" know intimate details about Vitiate's mindset and mentality? No proof of that, bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Other examples of telepathy don't require any prep-time to perform. Theres tons of times when characters have simply touched anothers mind as Vitiate does in that scene without requiring preparation.

So? Those characters usually don't bring Sith Lords to their knees and defy author commentary about their abilities. Clearly your interpretation of a scene in Karpyshyn's book not in line with Karpyshyn's vision of the character, which means Scourge is a particularly weak Sith Lord or there was a measure of preparation involved. excellent

Originally posted by Nephthys
You only had an argument when everyone here was ignorant of the facts about Vitiate and before every form of "proof" you tried presenting was obliterated.

Sounds like Vitiate fanwank to me, bro. You clearly have an unnatural fixation with the character that precludes you from determining such things objectively. Meanwhile, the guy who created the character agrees with me.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Karpyshyn emphatically confirmed my theory going back since Revan's release. Vitiate can't enthrall any Jedi Master or Sith Lord of note without preparation. He can't do it off the cuff and, to my knowledge, there exists no evidence to the contrary.

👆 This makes far more sense. Why would Vitiate waste time blasting people with lightning that they can deflect when he could just go 'You are my slave now'. Neph you do this all the time word of God is superior to your opinion. Karpshyan's opinion is superior to any fan interpretation considering he wrote it

That doesn't make sense, since Vitiate had tons of time to prepare while the Hero fought Scourge and they were fighting through his fortress. So even if he does have to prepare, he had the time to in that situation. He just chose to use lightning because he's a dick.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That doesn't make sense, since Vitiate had tons of time to prepare while the Hero fought Scourge and they were fighting through his fortress. So even if he does have to prepare, he had the time to in that situation. He just chose to use lightning because he's a dick.

You literally have no idea how long it takes him to prepare. Given that 300 years wasn't enough to break Revan, I'd gamble that its not as simple as a few minutes of prep.

That's true, but he managed to prepare (assuming he needs to) in the time it took for Revan to get to his throne room. Which would have taken way less time than the strike team did actually fighting through dozens of sith and heavy defenses and the Hero dueling Scourge.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's true, but he managed to prepare (assuming he needs to) in the time it took for Revan to get to his throne room. Which would have taken way less time than the strike team did actually fighting through dozens of sith and heavy defenses and the Hero dueling Scourge.

Or perhaps the Emperor underestimated Revan and thought it would be easy to mind**** him like he did last time.

Which would make no difference between the time needed to prepare the technique.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which would make no difference between the time needed to prepare the technique.

Or he was already prepared considering there was a bloody Civil War happening outside his gates.

You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Proof, bro?

Look for it yourself.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
He'd "obviously" know intimate details about Vitiate's mindset and mentality? No proof of that, bro.

Mindset and mentality? Well, yes he does actually since he exposits at length about the supreme evil in Vitiates mind and shit. But I was more suggesting that he'd have intimate details of the attack itself. Being connected to Vitiates mind and experiencing the attacks obviously makes him a credible witness. So yeah, it took Vitiate all of a thought to snuff out his will.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
So? Those characters usually don't bring Sith Lords to their knees and defy author commentary about their abilities. Clearly your interpretation of a scene in Karpyshyn's book not in line with Karpyshyn's vision of the character, which means Scourge is a particularly weak Sith Lord or there was a measure of preparation involved. excellent

That Vitiates mind is powerful and debilitating only proves its powerful and debilitating. Not that he'd need to prepare just to touch another's mind. That's retarded.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds like Vitiate fanwank to me, bro. You clearly have an unnatural fixation with the character that precludes you from determining such things objectively. Meanwhile, the guy who created the character agrees with me.

Nah. I don't like him that much. I've bashed his character with you freely not long ago. I do respect his power though and see your prep arguments as obvious attempts at lowballing him.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Ik, but so? Vitiate was sitting on his ass for dozens of years primarily concentrating on Revan on a Nexus of his Temple, yet he was unable to break him. Revan drew on Meetra's strength for Force reserve and energy, but ultimately it was him who resisted it.

And I am not sure if Emperor Vitiate intended to break Revan after capturing him. Vitiate was only interested in obtaining useful information from Revan about the Republic and not use Revan as his pwn again because he had done this before and the plan didn't work out well. Vitiate did eventually succeed at obtaining the information he needed from Revan after a lengthy contest of wills. However, this entire development seems different to me from Emperor Vitiate's telepathic subjugation feats/actions.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
👆 This makes far more sense. Why would Vitiate waste time blasting people with lightning that they can deflect when he could just go 'You are my slave now'. Neph you do this all the time word of God is superior to your opinion. Karpshyan's opinion is superior to any fan interpretation considering he wrote it

Emperor Vitiate did break lot of individuals including many Jedi in various confrontations. He even destroyed the minds of some of his adversaries with just his telepathic abilities.

Also, skeptics conveniently overlook this part of statement from the author:

This is my non-official answer; I don't know if there's a canon version of the ability where all this has been worked out.

This is why it is important to find out 'exactly when' did the author made this statement. Was this before releasing the novel Revan?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
You literally have no idea how long it takes him to prepare. Given that 300 years wasn't enough to break Revan, I'd gamble that its not as simple as a few minutes of prep.

Emperor Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with barely an effort. Now you don't need to prepare for an action which you can perform with barely an effort or do you? Common sense...

No where it have been stated that Emperor Vitiate gathered power to break his opponents or something similar. This whole preparation mantra is misplaced.

Vitiate didn't want to break Revan also because he was using him as a conduit to connect to the lightside.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate didn't want to break Revan also because he was using him as a conduit to connect to the lightside.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Look for it yourself.

Your concession is graciously accepted.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Mindset and mentality? Well, yes he does actually since he exposits at length about the supreme evil in Vitiates mind and shit. But I was more suggesting that he'd have intimate details of the attack itself. Being connected to Vitiates mind and experiencing the attacks obviously makes him a credible witness. So yeah, it took Vitiate all of a thought to snuff out his will.

Sounds pretty farfetched to me, bro. Especially when Revan's text states directly that Vitiate had to divert much of his strength to even attempt to subjugate someone's mind.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That Vitiates mind is powerful and debilitating only proves its powerful and debilitating. Not that he'd need to prepare just to touch another's mind. That's retarded.

No one said Vitiate's mind isn't powerful and debilitating, bro. Karpyshyn's commentary in no way indicates that Vitiate is weak, only that Vitiate's telepathy isn't as remotely divine as you desperately want it to be.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nah. I don't like him that much. I've bashed his character with you freely not long ago. I do respect his power though and see your prep arguments as obvious attempts at lowballing him.

Suuuure.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.

😐

The presence of Surik, Scourge, and wounded!Revan was enough to make your false god uncertain and visibly hesitant. Sorry, bro, but them are the facts.

^^^

Betraying his allies had not altered the inevitable outcome; the Emperor would have won regardless. At least this way Scourge was still alive to carry on their cause.