SWTOR Revan, Bastila Shan, Satele Shan, Lord Scourge vs Full-Power Vitiate

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your concession is graciously accepted.

I just don't care enough to find it. He did say it though. A fan expressed disappointment that there was no closure on Carth and he was like 'oh yeah i did a chapter on him but forgot whoops.'

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Sounds pretty farfetched to me, bro. Especially when Revan's text states directly that Vitiate had to divert much of his strength to even attempt to subjugate someone's mind.

Pretty different circumstances bro, since Revan had developed a defense against him. Besides which, he can put most of his power into the attack without having to prep to do so.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
No one said Vitiate's mind isn't powerful and debilitating, bro. Karpyshyn's commentary in no way indicates that Vitiate is weak, only that Vitiate's telepathy isn't as remotely divine as you desperately want it to be.

Suuuure, but that still doesn't mean he needs to prep to use it, or touch someones else's mind.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Suuuure.

It's also insinuated that Vitiate could have used his telepathy on the HoT, but didn't because he knew they would resist it. But that it was an option suggests he didn't need to prepare to use it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
😐

The presence of Surik, Scourge, and wounded!Revan was enough to make your false god uncertain and visibly hesitant. Sorry, bro, but them are the facts.

Revan > any of the Sith in the empire at that time. Plus they'd managed to get past all his defenses and Imperial Guards, which would almost never happen.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're really grasping at straws now. Vitiate didn't fear any of the peons outside.

Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.

👆

Face it, Neph. Akin to Bane and Batman, I have broken your Vitiate upon my righteous knee of awesomeness.

It didn't take 300 years to break Revan, Revan resisted that long. He knew Vitiates tricks and was powerful enough to resist his direct influence with the defense he created. Scourge outright admits that he can't resist Vitiate even though Revan taught him the defense and Satele and Bastila are no different. Even Kira couldn't resist his direct influence.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Why would he when he had already prepared for them. The point is that if it took 300 years to break Revan, he's not casually breaking any of the people here, not without prep.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It didn't take 300 years to break Revan, Revan resisted that long. He knew Vitiates tricks and was powerful enough to resist his direct influence with the defense he created. Scourge outright admits that he can't resist Vitiate even though Revan taught him the defense and Satele and Bastila are no different. Even Kira couldn't resist his direct influence.

It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

👆

And we continue to puncture Vitiate's mortally injured reputation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed. Then how did Scourge outright betray him? Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

It took 300 years, but not because his technique just takes a long time to use. 😬 It took 300 years because Revan was just that ****in' good.

Scourge didn't betray him right in front of him, he quietly freed them and fled. Scourge isn't connected to Vitiates will, because that would negative effect him since Vitiates mind is like turbocancer or something.

No, Kira and maybe Syo resisted his indirect influence. In neither case was Vitiate in the same room as them, he was possessing Kira via proxy (who was incomplete) and Syo resisted the First Son not Vitiate.

Scourge says at the end that neither he nor Kira can resist Vitiate in a direct confrontation, that's why you can only take T7 into the fight. "I will fly us to the temple, but you must face him alone. No one else can resist his direct influence."

Originally posted by Nephthys
It took 300 years, but not because his technique just takes a long time to use. 😬 It took 300 years because Revan was just that ****in' good.

I know. But if it takes 300 years for Revan, no way does he just magically mind rape Satele and Bastilla in 2 minutes 😬

Scourge didn't betray him right in front of him, he quietly freed them and fled.

Yes but wouldn't he have already been under Vitiate's influence after he got made an immortal.

No, Kira and maybe Syo resisted his indirect influence. In neither case was Vitiate in the same room as them, he was possessing Kira via proxy and Syo resisted the First Son not Vitiate.

They resisted the piece of his consciousness imbued with them, that's way more impressive than resisting an outside influence.

Scourge says at the end that neither he nor Kira can resist Vitiate in a direct confrontation, that's why you can only take T7 into the fight. "I will fly us to the temple, but you must face him alone. No one else can resist his direct influence."

Yes because both Kira and Scourge have been bound to him via ritual. What is so hard about this to understand? Of course you don't take two people who've been imbued with Vitiate's power to go fight Vitiate.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
It did take 300 years. He wanted Revan to reveal the location of the Foundry to him, he failed.

Also, how the Empire came to know about the existence of The Foundry?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Then how did Scourge outright betray him?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Kira? Are you serious? She's a child of the Emperor imbued with a piece of his consciousness. And considering Syo Bakarn, and her did actually end up overpowering his will yes they can resist.

Barsen'thor (3) healed Syo Bakarn.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I know. But if it takes 300 years for Revan, no way does he just magically mind rape Satele and Bastilla in 2 minutes 😬

Revan knows how to defend himself, the ladies don't.

Also Bastila? Jesus, she'd get shitstomped by his mind. Satele admits that she can't risk facing the Emperor.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes but wouldn't he have already been under Vitiate's influence after he got made an immortal.

Nope. It's specifically said that he wasn't. "Unlike the Hand, the Warth was spared the crippling binding process so that he might wield his full might to crush the enemies of the Empire." - Swtore 163

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They resisted the piece of his consciousness imbued with them, that's way more impressive than resisting an outside influence.

Kira was incomplete, she ran away before they could finish the process, give her her Child personality and whatever else happens.

Syo had help from the Barsen'thor, much like the Hero had help from Orgus Din.

Also no it isn't. 😬 Vitiate doesn't have as much influence on them through that way as he does in a direct confrontation.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yes because both Kira and Scourge have been bound to him via ritual. What is so hard about this to understand? Of course you don't take two people who've been imbued with Vitiate's power to go fight Vitiate.

The Council also doesn't come with the Hero because they'd fall as well. Otherwise obviously Satele and the rest of the Jedi Council would have joined you.

^^^

This

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]Revan knows how to defend himself, the ladies don't.

Also Bastila? Jesus, she'd get shitstomped by his mind. Satele admits that she can't risk facing the Emperor.

Because they don't know the extent of the Emperor's power. The only one proven to resist him had been the HoT.

Nope. It's specifically said that he wasn't. "Unlike the Hand, the Warth was spared the crippling binding process so that he might wield his full might to crush the enemies of the Empire." - Swtore 163

The point is that Scourge might have been concerned about what would happen to him if he faced the Emperor.

Kira was incomplete, she ran away before they could finish the process, give her her Child personality and whatever else happens.

Syo had help from the Barsen'thor, much like the Hero had help from Orgus Din.

And Scourge would have Revan's help.

Also no it isn't. 😬 Vitiate doesn't have as much influence on them through that way as he does in a direct confrontation.

On them? Yes. But I think Vitiate would have more control over someone enthralled to him long distance than some random person close to him.

The Council also doesn't come with the Hero because they'd fall as well. Otherwise obviously Satele and the rest of the Jedi Council would have joined you.

They couldn't risk that. Even the possibility that Vitiate could mind **** them was enough for them to say 'Nope'. They didn't know the extent of his powers.

^^^

This is funny, no counterargument here.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because they don't know the extent of the Emperor's power. The only one proven to resist him had been the HoT.

Scourge is right there and he knows plenty about the Emperor's mental ability. Yet he doesn't correct Satele. Instead he says that only the Hero can resist Vitiates direct influence.

It's true, they know nothing on his power. Which is why they can't resist it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
The point is that Scourge might have been concerned about what would happen to him if he faced the Emperor.

And he was. Because he knew he couldn't resist Vitiate even weakened. Even weakened, even with Scourge knowing Revan's defense, Scourge is sure he can't resist him. He won't do so in this fight where Vitiate is full powered.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
And Scourge would have Revan's help.

Not during a fight when Vitiate is blasting him at the same time.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
On them? Yes. But I think Vitiate would have more control over someone enthralled to him long distance than some random person close to him.

Well I guess he'd have more physical control through possessing someone, but his direct mental influence would be far more dominant. No way can Kira or Syo resist him blasting their minds in person, even without his consciousness inside them.

Regardless, Kira was able to resist because she hadn't been completely bound to him or had a secondary personality installed, plus the Hero had just defeated Vitiate. Syo was able to resist the First Son, not Vitiate, through the Barsen'thor's help.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They couldn't risk that. Even the possibility that Vitiate could mind **** them was enough for them to say 'Nope'. They didn't know the extent of his powers.

But Scourge does and he's literally 2 feet away at the time, in the conversation with the Hero and Satele. If they could have resisted him, Scourge would have said so. He wouldn't hold back, he's utterly committed to killing the Emperor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Emperor Vitiate actually probed the mind of Revan to get the information he needed. Revan resisted this attempt for as long as possible for him. You are confusing this development with Emperor Vitiate attempting to break Revan. When Emperor Vitiate breaks someone, that someone turns in to a mindless slave/puppet of the Emperor.

Also, how the Empire came to know about the existence of The Foundry?

Because Vitiate already knew of its existence. He's the one who sent Malak and Revan to find the Star Forge.

Emperor Vitiate had not broken him or reduced him to his puppet at any point in history.

Vitiate didn't do anything close to this you are right. In fact Revan used the force to persuade him to sue for peace.

Kira resisted with aid of HoT.

What by him saying 'You can do it Kira'. Hardly compelling proof.

Barsen'thor (3) healed Syo Bakarn.

Syo breaks the hold several times during the fight without the Barsen'thor's help 😬

Originally posted by Nephthys
Scourge is right there and he knows plenty about the Emperor's mental ability. Yet he doesn't correct Satele. Instead he says that only the Hero can resist Vitiates direct influence.

Scourge knows the limits of his power? Really? How do you suppose that worked?
"Wrath, you ever wonder how I mind control people."
"Why...yes actually, I won't ever use this to betray you"

It's true, they know nothing on his power. Which is why they can't resist it.

No which is why they don't want to risk the whole Jedi Council becoming his thralls.

And he was. Because he knew he couldn't resist Vitiate even weakened. Even [b]weakened, even with Scourge knowing Revan's defense, Scourge is sure he can't resist him. He won't do so in this fight where Vitiate is full powered.

Again Scourge had a ritual performed on him by Vitiate, is made immortal by Vitiate's power. He has know idea how that would affect him if he's in direct confrontation with him.

Not during a fight when Vitiate is blasting him at the same time.

Oh really? Then why didn't Vitiate mind control him during their battle? He was clearly scared of the prospect of fighting all three of them, and even resorts to trying to convince Scourge to betray them. If he could just force persuade Scourge into doing his dirty work he would have done it with the same results and zero risks.

Well I guess he'd have more physical control through possessing someone, but his direct mental influence would be far more dominant. No way can Kira or Syo resist him blasting their minds in person, even without his consciousness inside them.

I never argued that. I am saying that if Person A and Person B have the same mental resilience. Person A imbued with a ritual from Vitiate will have a far more difficult time resisting him than Person B just encountering him.

Regardless, Kira was able to resist because she hadn't been completely bound to him or had a secondary personality installed, plus the Hero had just defeated Vitiate. Syo was able to resist the First Son, not Vitiate, through the Barsen'thor's help.

No he was resisting far before that. During the battle he heals you for crying out loud. Also Kira is bound to him, she even comments on hearing his voice post mortem.

But Scourge does and he's literally 2 feet away at the time, in the conversation with the Hero and Satele. If they could have resisted him, Scourge would have said so. He wouldn't hold back, he's utterly committed to killing the Emperor.

Why would the Emperor tell Scourge the extent of his mind control powers?

👆

It's because Karpyshyn wrote Vitiate a certain way. Which we now know was as a Sith Lord with prodigious, but hardly unlimited telepathy.

Their concession is imminent.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Because Vitiate already knew of its existence. He's the one who sent Malak and Revan to find the Star Forge.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Vitiate didn't do anything close to this you are right. In fact Revan used the force to persuade him to sue for peace.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
What by him saying 'You can do it Kira'. Hardly compelling proof.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Syo breaks the hold several times during the fight without the Barsen'thor's help 😬

Syo couldn't shrug off First Son at any point earlier.