Gradiator with the ebony blade Vs. Morg with WOL

Originally posted by Stoic
I did say that he could be hit. I know that you read this from me. The thing here is that what stops him from hitting Gladiator?

Now should i ask you the same question? Do I have to type in full block for you to understand? He always used it. How do you think he tracked planets? Do you also think that Galactus made Morg to sit on his hands instead of finding worlds to feed him with? Do you require a scan of this as well? Or are you able to think logically enough to surmise that Morg actually did find worlds for the guy that gave him the power to do so? Now let's see if you understood that.

They fly past planets all the time. There's no need to use cosmic awareness for that. This is what you don't get. We go by on panel showings, not by what YOU think. That's why I post scans a lot because no matter what i say, if I don't have proof then I don't have any evidence of anything.

Originally posted by zopzop
Believe or not, that' show Zeus dealt with Black Knight w/EB. He AoEd and KOed him.

The thing is, Morg doesn't fight that way. He's a brawler.

👆

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Gladiator's speed, plus durability, plus Ebony Blade's enchantments stacking?

I mean , you keep bringing Gladiator's CIS into play (he doesn't know how to use a sword! He's unskilled etc).

What about Morg's CIS? Just because he has the CA (which is a separate matter) does not mean he uses it in battle. Hence my example of the Marvel family.

So there are three points you haven't really addressed:

1. Does he have CA (although, tbf to you, you've tried);
2. Does he use this in battle (which hasn't been addressed);
3. Even if he has it, and DOES use it, will he have the speed to act on it. You can tell me that a sniper is going to shoot me at 13:05:14:35:12, on the 13th of July, at these exact coordinates, but I couldn't move until AFTER the bullet was fired....I'll still be dead, even if I had developed a fool proof plan to dive to my right when it occured.

1. If he has the Power Cosmic, he also has Cosmic Awareness.

2. If you read what CA does for the character that uses it you will know that he has no choice but to use it, it becomes an innate ability much like the Spider Sense or danger sense. This does not mean that he can not be hit.

3. I assume that this battle is taking place in space (are we on the same page with this assumption?) Despite what people believe Morg is at least as fast as the Surfer because as i said before he caught up to him after the Surfer left Galactus' ship. It would also be pretty stupid if a guy as hungry as Galactus imbued all of his other heralds with the ability to travel at FTL speed this right, but left Morg out of the equation. I mean it's not as if he has or want to wait a decade before he can eat. Does this make sense to you? Therefore it is easy to come to the conclusion that Morg can fly very fast, despite being a dumb brutal murderer.

The only thing that I see Gladiator being faster than Morg in is combat speed. Flight Speed is about the same. Can Gladiator hit Morg before Morg can hit him is the question? Is Morg better with a sword or axe in comparison to Gladiator. I would say most definitely based on Gladiator never being seen on panel using one, and if he did how many times?

Then there's the fact that Morg has the power to emit omni blasts of great magnitude, that at the very least will stun Gladiator. f not I guess we would assume that Gladiator was more powerful than Morg at this level. He wasn't we both know this.

So the Ebony Blade is about 30-36 inches long from tip to hilt, while Morg has a blast that can swallow an entire planet in scope reducing it to rubble. Will this effect Gladiator? Is Gladiator impervious to damage? Can Gladiator easily deal with all of the Heralds of Galactus created up til that point in history. When did the Ebony Blade make Dane more resilient? You see where i'm coming from?

I'm saying that yes Gladiator could win, but Morg has a greater chance at winning based on his power set. Now arguing whether he would use his powers, is like asking you if you would use your feet to walk up the street, or crawl on you knees.

Originally posted by carver9
They fly past planets all the time. There's no need to use cosmic awareness for that. This is what you don't get. We go by on panel showings, not by what YOU think. That's why I post scans a lot because no matter what i say, if I don't have proof then I don't have any evidence of anything.

Are you seriously paying dumb again Carver? When they have to find a planet they find it. Morg found planets for Galactus, and he wasn't as kind about it as Norrin, he didn't care if life existed on them at all. That's CA in action. He even went back to his home world millions of miles away, and killed his entire race. I am going by on panel showings you just don't seem to get it yet. Or you don't want to get it. All you want to say is that speed kills blah blah blah, while ignoring that Morg can deal with speed or he would crash into asteroids while flying through space doing FTL speeds.

Originally posted by Stoic
1. If he has the Power Cosmic, he also has Cosmic Awareness.

Fair enough; like I said, I haven't really been debating this point. Others have, but I haven't.

2. If you read what CA does for the character that uses it you will know that he has no choice but to use it, it becomes an innate ability much like the Spider Sense or danger sense. This does not mean that he can not be hit.

3. I assume that this battle is taking place in space (are we on the same page with this assumption?) Despite what people believe Morg is at least as fast as the Surfer because as i said before he caught up to him after the Surfer left Galactus' ship. It would also be pretty stupid if a guy as hungry as Galactus imbued all of his other heralds with the ability to travel at FTL speed this right, but left Morg out of the equation. I mean it's not as if he has or want to wait a decade before he can eat. Does this make sense to you? Therefore it is easy to come to the conclusion that Morg can fly very fast, despite being a dumb brutal murderer.

Then there's the fact that Morg has the power to emit omni blasts of great magnitude, that at the very least will stun Gladiator. f not I guess we would assume that Gladiator was more powerful than Morg at this level. He wasn't we both know this.

I'm saying that yes Gladiator could win, but Morg has a greater chance at winning based on his power set. Now arguing whether he would use his powers, is like asking you if you would use your feet to walk up the street, or crawl on you knees.

Also, you admit the Glads would be faster in combat speed.

With that said, with superior speed, who needs skills?

@Dark

CA is an innate ability, he can't ignore the fact that he sees in technicolor a powerful weapon capable of doing great damage to him. There is also the fact that the Water of Life mixed with the PC allowed him to heal near instantaneously.

Yes he wasn't the brightest, but he didn't have down syndrome either. Even a person with that disease wouldn't stand there if they knew that something that could potentially hurt them bad was coming. Nor was he Savage Hulk level stupid, or Drax stupid.

Well he did use this power on panel so I don't see why he could not use it in a forum battle. I mean if we're talking about on panel showings.

Assuming you weren't a moron you would use your feet to walk or if matters were pressing run. Galactus demand expedience from his heralds. I think he ran... A lot.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also, you admit the Glads would be faster in combat speed.

With that said, with superior speed, who needs skills?

The problem here is that guy did not have a danger sense as an equalizer, and I don't think that the stagger would be to the degree of QS vs Slowmo Joe. Have you ever seen the Surfer dodge lasers? Other heralds have such feats. Should we exclude Morg from them when he has the ability to operate like them? Keeping in mind that he did not live very long so his appearances are few. but then again how about we shine the spotlight on Gladiator. Do you have the scan when a much slower Gambit hit him with an entire charged deck of cards putting him out? How about his fight with Eric Masterson Thor? Or his Close battle with Colossus? Do you recall the much slower Hulk brutally beating the life out of him?

Originally posted by Stoic
Are you seriously paying dumb again Carver? When they have to find a planet they find it. Morg found planets for Galactus, and he wasn't as kind about it as Norrin, he didn't care if life existed on them at all. That's CA in action. He even went back to his home world millions of miles away, and killed his entire race. I am going by on panel showings you just don't seem to get it yet. Or you don't want to get it. All you want to say is that speed kills blah blah blah, while ignoring that Morg can deal with speed or he would crash into asteroids while flying through space doing FTL speeds.

When has Morg went out searching for a planet for Galactus?

Hulk has flown before. In a 10/10 fight against Thor, how many times would Hulk fly out in space to meet Thor up there for battle (if Thor was spamming lightning). Not jump, but fly.

So Morg has displayed combat speed because flying at FTL speed does not mean you have the reflexes to stop a blitz of Gladiator magnitude. Example, Vulcan has flown FTL as well and he was unable to prevent Gladiator from snatching his eye out.

Masterson has flown FTL and he was unable to react to a blitz from both Spiderman and Gladiator. Why are you doing this Stoic? I just don't get it. This is a simple concept. Has Morg done the things you've mentioned? Yes or No? Has he done it in combat? Yes or no?

How about this...let me debate like you. Gladiator drops his sword and still stomps Morg because during the entire fight, he WILLS himself untouchable (Morg attacks will never connect) while punching Morg's lights out at the same time.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/1713555-244596_vulcan2_super_zps38d2f30a.jpg.html

I don't think this will happen because Gladiator rarely if ever goes this route but since he has displayed this ability, he uses it 10/10 for the stomp. Now the difference between your scenario and mine is, Gladiator has actually done this on panel. So his untouchablness (yes, I know that isn't a word) pulls him a healthy majority.

Originally posted by Stoic
The problem here is that guy did not have a danger sense as an equalizer, and I don't think that the stagger would be to the degree of QS vs Slowmo Joe.

He does have a danger sense. He knows his opponents moves before it happens as stated on panel in that very scan.

Originally posted by Stoic
The problem here is that guy did not have a danger sense as an equalizer, and I don't think that the stagger would be to the degree of QS vs Slowmo Joe. Have you ever seen the Surfer dodge lasers? Other heralds have such feats. Should we exclude Morg from them when he has the ability to operate like them? Keeping in mind that he did not live very long so his appearances are few. but then again how about we shine the spotlight on Gladiator. Do you have the scan when a much slower Gambit hit him with an entire charged deck of cards putting him out? How about his fight with Eric Masterson Thor? Or his Close battle with Colossus? Do you recall the much slower Hulk brutally beating the life out of him?

Let me fire it back at you.

Should we give all Green Lanterns the same feats as Hal Jordan? They have all been chosen by the Guardians, so presumably they have the same ability to overcome fear.
They have the same Green Lantern ring.
They underwent the same training under Kilowog et al (except for Kyle, the most magnificent Lantern of all time).

So shall I say that because Mogo/Hal/John Stewart have displayed XYZ feats, even though a random other Lantern has never displayed it....we should share feats? They all have the ability to create hard light constructs, after all.

Originally posted by carver9
He does have a danger sense. He knows his opponents moves before it happens as stated on panel in that very scan.

Yes now that I read it you're right, good catch, but it still does not stop Morg from using an omni blast which I am more than certain someone will come up with scans of the scene from silver Surfer 72 volume 2.

However one good showing from Quick Silver does not remove the beating that Eric Masterson, Hulk, and Gambit gave Gladiator, and they are far slower. Nor was that guy able to dodge object or react fast enough while flying through an asteroid field at FTL speeds. If he can do this why wouldn't he be able to react to Gladiator. Are you saying that if Gladiator fought the Surfer that Norrin would be unable to touch him? Well Morg beat up Norrin in their first encounter, and he did attempt to fight back.

I realize that you aren't saying that Gladiator would beat Morg, but giving an example, but even if he did wish himself untouchable, he would still be hit, because the Heralds react faster than the guys that put beatings on Gladiator in the past. I'm also wondering why DS argues for a guy that he said would be beaten by Firelord?

Originally posted by Stoic
I'm also wondering why DS argues for a guy that he said would be beaten by Firelord?

Probably the same reason why you tried to use no-name Lanterns in an attempt to lowball Red Lantern Supergirl, even though by the logic you used before, they should have the same feats as Hal Jordan?

Also, when DID I argue that Glads would be beaten by Firelord? Not saying I didn't, I probably did, but am just interested to know.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Let me fire it back at you.

Should we give all Green Lanterns the same feats as Hal Jordan? They have all been chosen by the Guardians, so presumably they have the same ability to overcome fear.
They have the same Green Lantern ring.
They underwent the same training under Kilowog et al (except for Kyle, the most magnificent Lantern of all time).

So shall I say that because Mogo/Hal/John Stewart have displayed XYZ feats, even though a random other Lantern has never displayed it....we should share feats? They all have the ability to create hard light constructs, after all.

No the Lanterns are closer to being the same then the Heralds who are more varied, but still retain the same base power cosmic. Having CA is an innate ability. So no you can't share feats, but if one of those guys have those feats and the other does not but still turns around and beats him, he can't be that inexperienced or that poor of a combatant now can he? it's raining, and my connection is a bit shaky so I'm being periodically disconnected.

Originally posted by Stoic
Yes now that I read it you're right, good catch, but it still does not stop Morg from using an omni blast which I am more than certain someone will come up with scans of the scene from silver Surfer 72 volume 2.

However one good showing from Quick Silver does not remove the beating that Eric Masterson, Hulk, and Gambit gave Gladiator, and they are far slower. Nor was that guy able to dodge object or react fast enough while flying through an asteroid field at FTL speeds. If he can do this why wouldn't he be able to react to Gladiator. Are you saying that if Gladiator fought the Surfer that Norrin would be unable to touch him? Well Morg beat up Norrin in their first encounter, and he did attempt to fight back.

I realize that you aren't saying that Gladiator would beat Morg, but giving an example, but even if he did wish himself untouchable, he would still be hit, because the Heralds react faster than the guys that put beatings on Gladiator in the past. I'm also wondering why DS argues for a guy that he said would be beaten by Firelord?

Eric Masterson was losing against Gladiator until he used an outside source (living lightning) to attack Gladiator from behind. He was dazed twice by a punch from Gladiator during that fight. The only time he got an advantage on Glads was during the end when he stunned him with a sneak attack. Are you really using that fight as a reference?

Hulk was amped when he fought Gladiator due to him losing connection with Banner after his fight against Onslaught. After his fight with Gladiator...issues later, he went World Breaker (had green energy spewing from his body that was melting people when they got close to him). It was mentioned on multiples of occasions that THAT version of Hulk was amped to ridiculous levels.

Lol...are you really bringing up the Gambit showing? Surfer got taken out by some humans with a brick. Morg per your admission is equal to Surfer. You're trying to hard.

I'll be back a bit later to address this this because I don't believe that Gladiator can beat Morg under any condition unless he was as powerful as him. and he lacks a lot of power against this version of Morg. Be back a bit later guys.

@Carver and Stoic
In a straight up battle with no outside amps, Morg would destroy Gladiator 10/10.

Originally posted by zopzop
@Carver and Stoic
In a straight up battle with no outside amps, Morg would destroy Gladiator 10/10.

Morg with WOL...I agree, without it, nope. Terrax nearly beat him and Gladiator is above Terrax.

Originally posted by carver9
Morg with WOL...I agree, without it, nope. Terrax nearly beat him and Gladiator is above Terrax.

Terrax would beat Gladiator too.

Morg has beaten Surfer, Firelord+Air-Walker, Terrax (three times), did damn good against Thanos (muscling through his blasts and forcing him to go on the defensive all the while battling Ganymede and Terrax). All this WITHOUT any amp.

Originally posted by zopzop
You crazy Carvster.

Terrax would beat Gladiator too.

Morg has beaten Surfer, Firelord+Air-Walker, Terrax (three times), did damn good against Thanos (muscling through his blasts and forcing him to go on the defensive all the while battling Ganymede and Terrax). All this WITHOUT any amp.

😐 Terrax will NOT beat Gladiator for a majority. Terrax got clumped by Sentry. Sentry would never do anything close to that against Gladiator.