Originally posted by Nephthys
Was Bioware unaware that the Ones are the peak of power when they wrote that book?
Its just that BioWare thinks that Emperor Vitiate is more bad@ss.
Here is proof:
"You stand there because I allow it. Because I do not fear."
Originally posted by Nephthys
And yet you take authors opinions on matters seriously, like Revan being able to destroy a building. Chee said definitely that the Father > everyone else. Case Closed.
😕
Originally posted by Nephthys
The Official Databank does not contradict Chee's words in any way.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Leland Chee wrote the damn databank you fool! And nothing currently written in it contradicts his statement on iota.Admit defeat to me Legend. You cannot win. You may be perfection, but I am the Ultimate Perfection!
Admit defeat?
I shall join Disney then. It is my destiny to do so. Once more the Sith (of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire) will rule the galaxy. And it would be I who would decide the fate of most powerful.
I will reign supreme. My will be absolute.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Therefore:But ethics of debate is a factor. If we consider Canon continuity, Emperor Vitiate does not even exists. If we consider Legends continuity, Emperor Vitiate and The Ones have co-existed. All I see is that people are touting supremacy of The Ones without realization and Legends and Canon differ from each other as per latest canon policy. Either debate with Canon continuity in mind or Legends continuity in mind.
You completely ignored my previous post, but whatever. I'll quote it for you:
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) That "accolade" doesn't mean anyone from TOR knew of the Ones' existence. They aren't mentioned at any time in the game or encyclopedia, so that line about Vitiate being the most powerful isn't an all-inclusive statement. Until something is written or shown that proves the Ones were known of in the TOR era, there's no reason to assume they were. Also, that quote doesn't apply to anything beyond the TOR era. It's not an all-encompassing encyclopedia, just a sourcebook for an era-specific game. The information is valid for that era.2) Please provide proof that Xendor revealed the Ones' existence to the galaxy. The only information I could find had him telling Arden Lyn, but not the galaxy. Plus, I highly doubt he would reveal anything to the Jedi, since he was fighting them.
3) There may not have been many Banite Sith, but this over 2 millennia after TOR, so anything could've happened. Perhaps one of the later Sith uncovered information on the Ones. The fact remains, though, that nothing in TOR sources references them, so there is no reason to assume that a Sith Order the galaxy didn't know about for over 1000 years should be aware of 3 individuals the Jedi weren't aware of until TCW.
That being said, I think you forgot an official Canon source. From the opening of TCW episode Alter of Mortis (Canon continuity):
"Mystery on Mortis! Sent to discover
the origin of a mysterious distress
call, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin
Skywalker, and his Padawan Ahsoka
Tano are stranded on a distant
planet. There, they discover three
beings more powerful with the Force
than any Jedi have seen before."
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So I guess Vitiate is so inconsequential that the official canon administrator completely overlooked him. How sad. 😆
Chee's opinion > Biowares hyperbolic wank.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
😐
No, Chee > Drew. Drew is just a writer for a company Lucasarts hired. Chee is in charge of all canon.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That's not a contradiction, numbnuts. Just because it doesn't say he's the most powerful doesn't mean he isn't still the most powerful. Unless directly contradicted, previous canon still holds. Especially since the Father was confirmed to be the most powerful by ACTUAL canonical sources that are still canon, not non-canon Legend works like Vitiate.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Hey, Legend.
Not restating something isn't the same as retreating the stance. The Father's quotes are still valid unless directly contradicted, which they have not been. He is more powerful than Vitiate. Just admit it.
I'll kick your ass just like Bruce Lee kicked Chuck Norris'.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) That "accolade" doesn't mean anyone from TOR knew of the Ones' existence. They aren't mentioned at any time in the game or encyclopedia, so that line about Vitiate being the most powerful isn't an all-inclusive statement. Until something is written or shown that proves the Ones were known of in the TOR era, there's no reason to assume they were. Also, that quote doesn't apply to anything beyond the TOR era. It's not an all-encompassing encyclopedia, just a sourcebook for an era-specific game. The information is valid for that era.
Also, I don't get era specific argument either. The Ones are ancient beings and they are covered in the timeline of the TOR Encyclopedia by virtue of their existence during this timeline. It is not as if The Ones had been introduced to the mythos after the publication of TOR Encyclopedia. Think.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) Please provide proof that Xendor revealed the Ones' existence to the galaxy. The only information I could find had him telling Arden Lyn, but not the galaxy. Plus, I highly doubt he would reveal anything to the Jedi, since he was fighting them.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
3) There may not have been many Banite Sith, but this over 2 millennia after TOR, so anything could've happened. Perhaps one of the later Sith uncovered information on the Ones. The fact remains, though, that nothing in TOR sources references them, so there is no reason to assume that a Sith Order the galaxy didn't know about for over 1000 years should be aware of 3 individuals the Jedi weren't aware of until TCW.
Mysterious message! A transmission has been intercepted far beyond the Outer Rim, deep in the Chrelythiumn system. Why the call has been made, and from where cannot be established. But buried in the message is a Jedi distress code that has not been used in over 2,000 years. (Star Wars - The Clone Wars)
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
You completely ignored my previous post, but whatever. I'll quote it for you:
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
That being said, I think you forgot an official Canon source. From the opening of TCW episode Alter of Mortis (Canon continuity):"Mystery on Mortis! Sent to discover
the origin of a mysterious distress
call, Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin
Skywalker, and his Padawan Ahsoka
Tano are stranded on a distant
planet. There, they discover three
beings more powerful with the Force
than any Jedi have seen before."
Canon and Legends continuities are like alternative universes.
Originally posted by Nephthys
So I guess Vitiate is so inconsequential that the official canon administrator completely overlooked him. How sad. 😆Chee's opinion > Biowares hyperbolic wank.
😐
No, Chee > Drew. Drew is just a writer for a company Lucasarts hired. Chee is in charge of all canon.
That's not a contradiction, numbnuts. Just because it doesn't say he's the most powerful doesn't mean he isn't still the most powerful. Unless directly contradicted, previous canon still holds. Especially since the Father was confirmed to be the most powerful by ACTUAL canonical sources that are still canon, not non-canon Legend works like Vitiate.
Not restating something isn't the same as retreating the stance. The Father's quotes are still valid unless directly contradicted, which they have not been. He is more powerful than Vitiate. Just admit it.
I'll kick your ass just like Bruce Lee kicked Chuck Norris'.
This cannot be. I turned you to the dark side, broke you. I used you as my pwn for a long time.
But it seems that Force ghosts of Selenial and DarthAnt66 have freed you from my telepathic subjugation.
There are consequences.
My life spans millennia. Legions have risen to test me. […] My ascendance is inevitable. A day, a year, a millennium—it matters not. I hold the patience of stone and the will of stars. Your striving is insignificant. Let your death concession be the same.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Just because certain characters have not been mentioned in a sourcebook, doesn't means that they have been excluded from evaluation. As an example: Sorzus Syn (one of the most powerful predecessors of Darth Sidious) have not been explicitly mentioned in the TOR Encyclopedia either, but she is logically considered for evaluation in the referred sourcebook. Accolades cannot be logically assigned to a character by ignoring certain ground realities of the lore, should not be.Also, I don't get era specific argument either. The Ones are ancient beings and they are covered in the timeline of the TOR Encyclopedia by virtue of their existence during this timeline. It is not as if The Ones had been introduced to the mythos after the publication of TOR Encyclopedia. Think.
I provided proof already. How did Jedi and Sith became aware of the existence of The Ones?
I have pointed out to you before that excuses can only get you so far:
Mysterious message! A transmission has been intercepted far beyond the Outer Rim, deep in the Chrelythiumn system. Why the call has been made, and from where cannot be established. But buried in the message is a Jedi distress code that has not been used in over 2,000 years. (Star Wars - The Clone Wars)
Where do I begin?
1) Sorzus Syn existed a good 14000 years after Xendor landed on Mortis, so I don't see how that compares. During the time of TOR, the only confirmed people who knew about the Ones were Xendor (who foolishly saw them as little different than other Force-using groups) and Arden Lyn (who only found out because Xendor told her). Arden Lyn goes into a coma for almost 25000 years, and Xendor didn't think there was anything special about the Ones, so please tell me how Vitiate's Sith Empire would be aware of the Ones. Just because we know the ones existed at that time, due to sources, doesn't mean in-universe characters know about them.
2) The era argument is very valid. You're trying to use a quote from an era-specific source, about an era-specific character, to include everything after that time. It doesn't work that way.
3) As stated in TCW, The Jedi weren't aware of the Ones, until Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Asohka visited Mortis. Now, while some Sith may have known about the Ones,prior to TCW, there is absolutely no proof that they knew about it in TOR's time.
4) I'm not making excuses. I'm providing information. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean I'm reaching, in my conclusions. The same could be said for you, but you don't see me calling you out on it.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The Ones are the most powerful Force-users in Canon continuity, not in Legends continuity.Canon and Legends continuities are like alternative universes.
Legends continuity is non-canon, in Disney's eyes, so it can't contradict Canon continuity. The Ones are the most powerful Force users. Period.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Where do I begin?
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
1) Sorzus Syn existed a good 14000 years after Xendor landed on Mortis, so I don't see how that compares. During the time of TOR, the only confirmed people who knew about the Ones were Xendor (who foolishly saw them as little different than other Force-using groups) and Arden Lyn (who only found out because Xendor told her). Arden Lyn goes into a coma for almost 25000 years, and Xendor didn't think there was anything special about the Ones, so please tell me how Vitiate's Sith Empire would be aware of the Ones. Just because we know the ones existed at that time, due to sources, doesn't mean in-universe characters know about them.
I mentioned Sorzus Syn in the context of evaluation purpose of power of characters in the TOR Encyclopedia. Your previous point is that The Ones have not been considered for evaluation of power of characters mentioned in the TOR Encyclopedia because they have not been mentioned in the same sourcebook. I pointed out to you that some other (ancient) characters have not been mentioned in the TOR Encyclopedia either but this doesn't precludes them from said evaluation. This point have nothing to do with what Xendor thought, I am presenting the perspective of authors about this matter, they wrote the book.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
2) The era argument is very valid. You're trying to use a quote from an era-specific source, about an era-specific character, to include everything after that time. It doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
3) As stated in TCW, The Jedi weren't aware of the Ones, until Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Asohka visited Mortis. Now, while some Sith may have known about the Ones,prior to TCW, there is absolutely no proof that they knew about it in TOR's time.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
4) I'm not making excuses. I'm providing information. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean I'm reaching, in my conclusions. The same could be said for you, but you don't see me calling you out on it.
Legends continuity and Canon continuity differ from each other in coverage of content and certain ground realities. I am presenting ground realities of Legends continuity because Emperor Vitiate is part of this continuity.
How can we even consider Emperor Vitiate for evaluation in Canon continuity when he is not even recognized in it yet? Makes no sense to me.
Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
Legends continuity is non-canon, in Disney's eyes, so it can't contradict Canon continuity. The Ones are the most powerful Force users. Period.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Please don't because of the kind of arguments that you are presenting.
Wow, a backhanded comment about my debating ability. Real mature...
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Xendor [B]met The Ones, Kalen. He would have a basic idea of what The Ones were capable of.I mentioned Sorzus Syn in the context of evaluation purpose of power of characters in the TOR Encyclopedia. Your previous point is that The Ones have not been considered for evaluation of power of characters mentioned in the TOR Encyclopedia because they have not been mentioned in the same sourcebook. I pointed out to you that some other (ancient) characters have not been mentioned in the TOR Encyclopedia either but this doesn't precludes them from said evaluation. This point have nothing to do with what Xendor thought, I am presenting the perspective of authors about this matter, they wrote the book.
The Ones are known to the galaxy at large since 24,500 BBY in Legends continuity.[/B]
Xendor met the Ones, but didn't see any difference in their philosophies than with any other Force group. That doesn't show he was aware of their capabilities. The "example" you provided was one of the first Sith Lords, so yes, she would be included, when talking about the capabilities of another Sith Lord. Xendor has no connection with the TOR Sith Empire, and to assume anyone in that era was aware of what Xendor knew is baffling. As far as the Ones being known to the galaxy, please provide proof of that statement, because that's one hell of an assumption. Abeloth existed during this time, as well, but was discovered until FOTJ. Are you insinuating that Vitiate was being compared to her, too?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As an author, if I am writing a sourcebook, I would be careful enough to consider all ground realities of the lore for evaluation. The TOR Encyclopedia is not a product of BioWare itself, it is a product of coordination between all well-known Star Wars authorities including LucasFilms and LucasArts groups. It is an encyclopedia, Kalen. Their is no room for error or misrepresentation in it.
That's what you would do, but you have no basis for explaining what another author was thinking. Can you name one other encyclopedia written in present tense, as if the events are happening now? It's an encyclopedic reference to information presented in the game, but it doesn't cover anything that happens after the TOR era. If you disagree, please provide proof that it does.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I have informed you before that we should be careful about what continuities we are considering for discussions.Legends continuity and Canon continuity differ from each other in coverage of content and certain ground realities. I am presenting ground realities of Legends continuity because Emperor Vitiate is part of this continuity.
How can we even consider Emperor Vitiate for evaluation in Canon continuity when he is not even recognized in it yet? Makes no sense to me.
Legends and Canon are no different than the old Canon and EU continuities, except Legends is non canon. You're right, Vitiate isn't in Canon continuity, but we can still discuss his worth. The problem is you seem to think the two continuities are mutually exclusive, which they aren't. There is Canon information in Legends continuity, but no purely Legends information in Canon continuity. The fact remains that Vitiate is one of the most powerful darkside practitioners of all time, but the Ones are decidedly above him.
