Revan's Raw Power Comparison

So lets say Revan's DS= 60% of his power, and his LS=40% of his power.

No because Revan has a stronger connection to the force than Nyriss without the nexus thus gets a larger boost.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
So lets say Revan's DS= 60% of his power, and his LS=40% of his power. The nexus decreases LS users by 10% and increases DS users by 10%

60%*20%= 12% increase
40%*20%= 8% decrease.

So even if it affects them evenly Revan still has a net increase in power of 4%

Except if anything Revan is more Jedi than he is Sith and theres the whole thing about him possessing both sides of the Force in balance.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
No because Revan has a stronger connection to the force than Nyriss without the nexus thus gets a larger boost. In other words 2.5% of 100 is just as good as 5% of 50.

It isn't about percentages. A darkside nexus is an area in which the Force has been corrupted towards the darkside/ the darkside is strong. The nexus' effects are therefore dependent on the power of the nexus itself, not the person on it.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Yeah him being on a nexus would mitigate this.

Highly doubtful.

The nexus' effects are therefore dependent on the power of the nexus itself, not the person on it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Except if anything Revan is more Jedi than he is Sith and theres the whole thing about him possessing both sides of the Force in balance.

If they are in balance though the Dark Side is stronger. And you can still be a light side darksider.

It isn't about percentages. A darkside nexus is an area in which the Force has been corrupted towards the darkside/ the darkside is strong. The nexus' effects are therefore dependent on the power of the nexus itself, not the person on it.

Simply incorrect. The force connects through individuals via the midiclorians. The more midichlorians you have the easier the force passes through you like a conduit. Meaning that if you are on a nexus that enhances that connection your power will increase exponentially based on your unaltered power.

Highly doubtful.

I doubt he'd have been able to recover that fast if he weren't on a nexus.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Hardly.
Merriam Webster
Char-
to burn slightly or partly

As shown in TCWs and in AOTCs Anakin and Savage both smoke when hit by Dooku's lightning and thus are both charred, but neither of them are dead. So yes killing someone takes more power than charring them. In fact just because they weren't drawn to be smoldering after Dooku's attack doesn't mean they weren't.

Char:

1. To partially burn so as to blacken the surface.

1. To burn the surface of; scorch.
2. To reduce to carbon or charcoal by incomplete combustion.

Char basically means to scorch something black, like when you burn your sausages. Furthermore, the two men where described as being reduced to charred and smoking husks, which means they were burnt far more severely than just smoking a bit.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Char:

1. To partially burn so as to blacken the surface.

1. To burn the surface of; scorch.
2. To reduce to carbon or charcoal by incomplete combustion.

Char basically means to scorch something black, like when you burn your sausages. Furthermore, the two men where described as being reduced to charred and smoking husks, which means they were burnt far more severely than just smoking a bit.

Merriam webster is far more reputable than some random online definition. So nice try.

If they are in balance though the Dark Side is stronger. And you can still be a light side darksider.

Simply incorrect. The force connects through individuals via the midiclorians. The more midichlorians you have the easier the force passes through you like a conduit. Meaning that if you are on a nexus that enhances that connection your power will increase exponentially based on your unaltered power.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Merriam webster is far more reputable than some random online definition. So nice try.

Webster says the same thing.

: to convert to charcoal or carbon usually by heat

Which you must have known since the definition you used was the 2nd one listed after the one above. But I suppose you didn't post it because it makes your argument look bad, huh?

Also reputation is irrelevant.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
If they are in balance though the Dark Side is stronger. And you can still be a light side darksider.

Do you... not understand the meaning of the word balance?

Revan isn't a lightside darkside though. 😬

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Simply incorrect. The force connects through individuals via the midiclorians. The more midichlorians you have the easier the force passes through you like a conduit. Meaning that if you are on a nexus that enhances that connection your power will increase exponentially based on your unaltered power.

That's simply not how a nexus works. As Ant said it would be the same increase no matter what.

Regardless of what you say though, it's nothing more than meaningless speculation that I can easily just dismiss or ignore. It's pointless to talk about such theoretical matters.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
I doubt he'd have been able to recover that fast if he weren't on a nexus.

A nexus which would barely be affecting him, if at all. Regardless, Revan would be weakened from his imprisonment and the nexus while only amped by the nexus. Even if the darkside nexus amped him more than it weakened him, the imprisonment would cancel that out or tip the balance to him not being 100%.

Of course, it also goes without saying that its never stated he was tapping into the nexus.

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Also, S_W_LeGenD, thoughts on my blog/thread?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Please don't insult my intelligence, of course I can grasp your reasoning. It's just not good reasoning. Your argument is terrible. Just bare in mind that the sarcasm isn't super serious here.

You're insulting your own intelligence by not grasping my point and calling my argument circular logic. It's not circular logic just because you can't grasp it.

Circular logic would be more like, Yoda was unaffected by being hit by a blast of lightning which was potent enough to knock him unconscious moments before,

Originally posted by Nephthys
And we've seen Vitiate's lightning knock the Strike Team out easily when not successfully absorbed.

With one prolonged attack and another charged one. Sidious used a very short blast on Yoda which was sufficient to knock him unconscious on contact.

Originally posted by Nephthys
You're just assuming that Yoda's incomplete defense (do I need to explain why it was incomplete?) is more effective than the combined power of the Strike Team or Revan's tutaminis.

That he didn't successfully absorb it, and rather attempted to block it with one hand doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious's attack. I didn't say Yoda used his best defense against Sidious' first attack on him, which is absorbing it with two hands, but again, we've seen less powerful individuals, who don't even know force absorption, being struck by lightning by other sith and not be instantly KO'd.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Are you referring to Vitiates lightning at the end here? Obviously a (casual) Force Storms power is spread out over a wide area as opposed to a concentrated burst. Many of the bolts of lightning don't get even close to the team, so a lot of power is wasted on useless lightning strikes.

Some of Sidious bolts missed Yoda during the final sequence of the fight. Does that suggest some of the power was wasted?

You're being really petty and grasping at straws. The first attack seemed to have hit them individual rather than all at once. The second charged attack his what hit them and finished the ones remaining.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That it didn't KO the Strike Team means nothing about Vitiates actual lightning.

It certainly does if you're trying to make a comparison between his lightning and Palpatine's. All of the lightning attacks that Vitiate used on single individuals were handled by those individuals, especially with sabers despite Vitiate being a dark side nexus. On the other hand, a weaker version of Palpatine's lightning gave Windu, who was sunk into vapaad, far more of struggle than Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning. Hell, even Yoda couldn't contain Sidious lightning with his saber despite his force enhanced strength.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I am laughing right now about how the Strike Team apparently doesn't know how to block lightning. Yeah, I'm sure Tol Braga brought people on the mission who don't know how to block lightning. Obviously. Oh wait, they weren't going to fight a Sith were they?

I guess Fisto, Kolar and Tiin knew how to absorb lightning as well since they were going to face a sith. Even Windu only showed to be able to block a lightning attack with his saber. I guess that also means Obi Wan and Anakin knew how to absorb lightning considering they were sent to fight Dooku more than once. Oh, wait, Dooku has rendered Anakin unconscious.

Lol at you trying to imply that they knew force absorption because they were going to fight a sith, and then suggesting Yoda didn't have his force defense up when going to face a sith.

Unless your referring to them being able to block lightning with their sabers, which is irrelevant because some of them failed to block it with their sabers and some were only stunned when hit, not instantly KO'd.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also even if there's not one on Yoda's level, there was 4 of them remember? So none of them need to be for their combined power to be greater to or equal to than his.

Talking about terrible logic. Yes, Yoda is possibly more powerful than them combined at that point considering Vitiate was, who isn't even as powerful as ROTS Sidious, who is in turn Yoda's equal.

I can easily suggest that Palpatine would easily plaster Vitiate to a wall with TK because he did so to Maul and Savage. The ease in which Sidious was easily able to manipulate them with TK alone, even while he was falling, would suggest that he is more than twice as powerful than them combined, which means Sidious > 2 Mauls and 2 Savages. I can do some math too.

Don't give me that crap that Vitiate can take Yoda because he took out a strike team consisting of 4 jedi.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And finally you're again just assuming that Revan isn't on Yoda's level.

The fact that you're suggesting something so stupid, you sure in the hell have no right to accuse anyone of lowballing Nyriss by putting her lightning on Dooku's level. Revan is not on Yoda's level. Stop with your ridiculous wanking in order to make Vitiate seem more impressive than he actually is.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, it's totally not as if Revan was actively trying to absorb the attack or anything at the time, significantly weakening the effects of it.

And you can clearly see Yoda attempt to block Sidious's attack with one hand, so I guess it too significantly weakened Sidious attack. Guess what, though, Yoda was blasted into unconsciousness, Revan wasn't.

And don't give me this crap about Yoda being surprised. What was he surprised by? Sidious using a standard sith attack, which Yoda is very familar with?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Let me try this: We see Yoda blocking it with his hands without being overwhelmed, so Sidious' lightning is weaker than Vitiates that pwned Revan who also tried to block with his hands but WAS overwhelmed.

Yoda was visibly showing signs of strain and pain, and this was a prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, whose lightning would otherwise be potent enough to render Yoda unconscious in a single very short blast if it weren't for his mastery of force absorption. The fact that Yoda was handling a very prolonged attack from Sidious, who was pouring lightning down Yoda, would suggest Yoda's proficiency and mastery of absorption.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Since I've already decided for myself that Revan's tutaminis is superior, Vitiates feat is vastly better than Sidious'.

Yeah, you also decided that Scourge was Maul level because he defeated lots of nameless/featless warriors in his hundreds of years of existence.

The fact that Sidious' lightning feats have shown to be more potent while off a nexus than Vitiate's are while on one, would suggest that Yoda's feat of handling Palpatine's lightning is far greater than Revan handling Vitiate's.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Confirmation bias ftw.

Yes, LeGenD's corruption of you is complete.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also this doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't it be more impressive than Sidious' lightning which didn't burn Yoda?

Now your comparing a human's skin to that of Yoda's, which seems to be very reptilian-like? We seen smoke and left over residue of lightning on Yoda.

Also, Palpatine's lightning was said to tear through Maul's organs (Shadow Conspiracy) yet there were no signs of burns on his body. Plagueis poured lightning into a prophetess and boiled her blood, which left no signs of burns on her body.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Presupposing that Yoda's incomplete defense >> The lightsaber defense of 4 of the most powerful Jedi of the era. Seems legit.

Some of their sabers didn't block the attack, and some were only stunned when hit. Just like Ventress' and the nightsister's sabers didn't block Dooku's lightning, which means that having a saber is irrelevant unless it's successful in actually blocking the attack.

Also, Palpatine has blasted Yoda's saber from his hands in a short burst. He'd have no trouble in blasting through their saber defenses considering their force enhanced strength do no compare to Yoda's. None of them would have the strength to hold on to their sabers and push through.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate defeated the Strike Team "easily." It didn't take him effort at all.

It took one prolonged attack and one charged one to render them unconscious. It took a single short blast from Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Wait, let me try this too: We saw Sidious shock Luke and he wasn't even made unconscious.

Palpatine is sadistic and was getting a terrible pleasure from seeing Luke on the ground in agony. The fact that Palpatine was constantly pausing his attack to gloat should tell you as much. This wasn't a combat situation between him and Luke.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate > Sidious. Terrible logic ftw!

Not really. I could just as easily suggest that Sidious was holding back on his attack considering it was very short and he relented once Yoda was unconscious. Fact is, Vitiate was aiming to render them unconscious and it took more power from him than it did for Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
To sum it up, your entire argument revolves around the assumption that Yoda's weak defense was still stronger than the Strike Teams and Revan efforts.

The only defense the strike team had were their sabers, some of which failed to block the attack with them. Sidious has blasted Yoda's saber right out of his hands.

As for the comparison between Yoda and Revan, Yoda has shown that he can block Palpatine's lightning when he uses his force absorption ability. So, yes, Yoda >> Revan. To suggest Revan is a Yoda level force user is beyond fan wanking. Hell, based on feats and accolades, I could make a better case for Dooku being capable of defeating Vitiate in combat, if you really want to be silly.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And you're still making the circular argument.

Learn what a circular argument is before you try to insult mine. Again, Yoda being capable of absorbing energy that is otherwise potent enough to blast him unconscious had he not mastered the ability of force absorption, is not a circular argument.

Dooku has rendered Ventress unconscious with force lightning. Now, let's say shortly after, Ventress had learned how to absorb lightning with her hands, this wouldn't take away the impressiveness of Dooku's lightning when it did Knock her out. It would just mean that she learned of a defense of absorbing lightning that would otherwise be powerful enough to take her out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Again, your entire argument can just be summed up as Yoda > Revan. Which isn't a real argument, it's an opinion. Come up with a way to establish Sidious' lightning without using Yoda himself.

Since you're unable to grasp it, then sure: Sidious has scorched a sith worm to ash; a weak version of his lightning was giving Mace, who was sunk deep in vapaad, a struggle. Conversely, both HoT and Revan have both handled Vitiate's lightning with their blade quite well despite being on a dark side nexus.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The only important thing is that the lightning she used against Revan, regardless of how amped it was, was far superior to the lightning that Dooku used against Yoda. Therefore making Revan more impressive since he handled it without notable effort whilst Yoda had to strain to block Dooku's. Leave Dooku vs Nyriss to a versus thread.

Which, again, wasn't my point. I clarified that yesterday. My comparison between them was directed at your attempts to constantly lowball Dooku (not just in this thread but others as well), who has shown to be greater than the opponents whom Vitiate has struggled with in combat.

This is why people like Carthage lowballs characters like Vitiate, because the wanking of him and the characters who defeated him is getting outright ridiculous. Although I don't always agree with Carthage, he does make valid points when he lowballs, and seems to call it as he sees it.

(no offense to you Emperordmb. I know you're one of Carthage's most frequent targets, but from what I see, you do seem more reasonable than most)

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also Dooku usually uses only lightning when characters are open to it. The people he's KO'd with it aren't shown to be actively blocking it like Meetra was. His standard lightning is in no way better than hers because of it.

Force barriers and defenses are invisible and are usually active when a force user is in a combat situation. How do you think Anakin was resisting Dooku's attack before finally being KO'd? Obviously the force is used to resist energy based attacks regardless of whether or not they know force absorption, which goes back to my other point that Yoda absorbing Palpatine's lightning that is otherwise potent enough to render him unconscious, is not circular logic.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Which isn't even an actual feat because it never happened.

He was still shown to struggle against Palpatine's weaker version of lightning, which wasn't intended to kill him, but rather to manipulate Anakin in choosing sides.

You seem like a cool guy, but why are you so obsessed with Revan?

Because someone has to be.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
With one prolonged attack and another charged one. Sidious used a very short blast on Yoda which was sufficient to knock him unconscious on contact.

When Yoda couldn't put up his full defenses.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
That he didn't successfully absorb it, and rather attempted to block it with one hand doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious's attack. I didn't say Yoda used his best defense against Sidious' first attack on him, which is absorbing it with two hands, but again, we've seen less powerful individuals, who don't even know force absorption, being struck by lightning by other sith and not be instantly KO'd.

Excuse me? Of course it takes away the impressiveness of Sidious' attack. A lot. You keep going on about how Sidious blasted a being "as powerful as Yoda" into unconsciousness, but Yoda wasn't able to marshall all of his power against Sidious. So it's a dumb point. You should say Sidious managed to knock out a being "as powerful as a Yoda who wasn't able to really defend well at the time".

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Some of Sidious bolts missed Yoda during the final sequence of the fight. Does that suggest some of the power was wasted?

You're being really petty and grasping at straws. The first attack seemed to have hit them individual rather than all at once. The second charged attack his what hit them and finished the ones remaining.

Possibly.

What? You can clearly see lightning striking the ground around them. It's a Force Storm, it's an attack that covers a wide area with repeated lightning strikes. Not all of the attacks are going to hit the targets. It only hit them individually in that each were hit by different strikes of lightning.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It certainly does if you're trying to make a comparison between his lightning and Palpatine's. All of the lightning attacks that Vitiate used on single individuals were handled by those individuals, especially with sabers despite Vitiate being a dark side nexus. On the other hand, a weaker version of Palpatine's lightning gave Windu, who was sunk into vapaad, far more of struggle than Vitiate's nexus enhanced lightning. Hell, even Yoda couldn't contain Sidious lightning with his saber despite his force enhanced strength.

They're completely different attacks, so there's not really a good comparison. It's like comparing a Force Wave to a Force Push. A Force Wave will obviously not hit someone with the entire wave, will it? The power is spread out over a large area. Also it wasn't a nexus, it was a space station.

Revan didn't handle Vitiates lightning bro. 😬

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I guess Fisto, Kolar and Tiin knew how to absorb lightning as well since they were going to face a sith. Even Windu only showed to be able to block a lightning attack with his saber. I guess that also means Obi Wan and Anakin knew how to absorb lightning considering they were sent to fight Dooku more than once. Oh, wait, Dooku has rendered Anakin unconscious.

Lol at you trying to imply that they knew force absorption because they were going to fight a sith, and then suggesting Yoda didn't have his force defense up when going to face a sith.

Unless your referring to them being able to block lightning with their sabers, which is irrelevant because some of them failed to block it with their sabers and some were only stunned when hit, not instantly KO'd.

Well yeah, probably. AotC Kenobi did and I doubt he was better trained than those guys were. Especially since I bet they trained during the Clone Wars to better fight Dooku.

And yeah, I am referring to them blocking with lightsabers. Though obviously they could use Force barriers as well.

Yoda obviously didn't have them up completely, or else he would have blocked the lightning like he did at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Talking about terrible logic. Yes, Yoda is possibly more powerful than them combined at that point considering Vitiate was, who isn't even as powerful as ROTS Sidious, who is in turn Yoda's equal.

I can easily suggest that Palpatine would easily plaster Vitiate to a wall with TK because he did so to Maul and Savage. The ease in which Sidious was easily able to manipulate them with TK alone, even while he was falling, would suggest that he is more than twice as powerful than them combined, which means Sidious > 2 Mauls and 2 Savages. I can do some math too.

Don't give me that crap that Vitiate can take Yoda because he took out a strike team consisting of 4 jedi.

I'm just going to ignore those kinds of statements. Though I appreciate that you only say 'possibly' rather than just assume it.

Yes, you could make that argument. Alas, that is for another time.

It's one of the best feats in the mythos in my opinion.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The fact that you're suggesting something so stupid, you sure in the hell have no right to accuse anyone of lowballing Nyriss by putting her lightning on Dooku's level. Revan is not on Yoda's level. Stop with your ridiculous wanking in order to make Vitiate seem more impressive than he actually is.

It isn't wanking, nor am I stating that it's the case. Whether or not Revan can be compared to Yoda is the entire purpose of this thread and Ant's essay. All I'm doing is keeping an open mind on the matter and not dismissing it out of hand like you are. If we assume it's untrue and close our minds to the argument, then theres no point having it, right? 🙂

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
And you can clearly see Yoda attempt to block Sidious's attack with one hand, so I guess it too significantly weakened Sidious attack. Guess what, though, Yoda was blasted into unconsciousness, Revan wasn't.

And don't give me this crap about Yoda being surprised. What was he surprised by? Sidious using a standard sith attack, which Yoda is very familar with?

Well of course Yoda did. If he hadn't, he wouldn't have merely been blasted into unconsciousness. He'd be dead. Sidious' lightning obviously kills on unprotected contact. That Yoda survives clearly indicates he managed to lesson the effects.

I'm not sure if he was surprised or not, though he did look like he was, stupidly enough. Whatever did happen though, it's clear that he wasn't able to put his best effort into blocking the lightning, or else he'd have done so like he did at the end of the fight.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda was visibly showing signs of strain and pain, and this was a prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, whose lightning would otherwise be potent enough to render Yoda unconscious in a single very short blast if it weren't for his mastery of force absorption. The fact that Yoda was handling a very prolonged attack from Sidious, who was pouring lightning down Yoda, would suggest Yoda's proficiency and mastery of absorption.

Yes it does. I've never suggested otherwise. I wasn't being super serious with this point, I was making fun of your logic.

Although if Revan's Tutaminis ability does surpass or equal Yoda's, then it would be true I guess. 😉

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yeah, you also decided that Scourge was Maul level because he defeated lots of nameless/featless warriors in his hundreds of years of existence.

The fact that Sidious' lightning feats have shown to be more potent while off a nexus than Vitiate's are while on one, would suggest that Yoda's feat of handling Palpatine's lightning is far greater than Revan handling Vitiate's.

Wasn't being serious bro, it was a joke.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes, LeGenD's corruption of you is complete.

Unlike you, I'm not just assuming the facts that support my argument are true and basing my argument on them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Now your comparing a human's skin to that of Yoda's, which seems to be very reptilian-like? We seen smoke and left over residue of lightning on Yoda.

Also, Palpatine's lightning was said to tear through Maul's organs (Shadow Conspiracy) yet there were no signs of burns on his body. Plagueis poured lightning into a prophetess and boiled her blood, which left no signs of burns on her body.

Left over residue? Ew.

Regardless, Yoda shows no signs of external or internal injuries. The fact that he was knocked unconscious by an attack that did no actual damage to him, while Revan was enough of a boss to stay awake while having his mask seared to his face and his body horribly burnt, is notable. Revan's balls >> Yoda's.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Some of their sabers didn't block the attack, and some were only stunned when hit. Just like Ventress' and the nightsister's sabers didn't block Dooku's lightning, which means that having a saber is irrelevant unless it's successful in actually blocking the attack.

Also, Palpatine has blasted Yoda's saber from his hands in a short burst. He'd have no trouble in blasting through their saber defenses considering their force enhanced strength do no compare to Yoda's. None of them would have the strength to hold on to their sabers and push through.

The fact that some of them weren't able to even block Vitiates power spread out into the Force Storm is only a point in Vitiate's favor, surely. Of course its not only relevant if successful, overwhelming a persons lightsaber defense is still notable. The fact is that they had their lightsabers out and would undoubtedly try to use them to block the lightning and did. And don't say they were stunned by the Force Storm, because it had stopped by the time of Vitiates second attack.

Right except that there's four of them, so Sidious' lightning would be split between them. Sidious knocked Yoda's lightsaber out of his hands, but we can't say for sure that he'd do the same to the whole Strike Team at the same time.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It took one prolonged attack and one charged one to render them unconscious. It took a single short blast from Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

A half-hearted Yoda proves nothing. Nor does a Vitiate going easy on the Strike Team.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Palpatine is sadistic and was getting a terrible pleasure from seeing Luke on the ground in agony. The fact that Palpatine was constantly pausing his attack to gloat should tell you as much. This wasn't a combat situation between him and Luke.

I know. I was making a sarcastic argument to showcase the fallacy of your own argument. My example was terrible on purpose. That's the joke.

When a character is purposefully going easy on another character, we shouldn't take it as a serious example of their full strength. Just like Vitiate was purposefully trying not to kill the Strike Team. That he was able to incapacitate them so easily while still holding back is a pretty good indication of power though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not really. I could just as easily suggest that Sidious was holding back on his attack considering it was very short and he relented once Yoda was unconscious. Fact is, Vitiate was aiming to render them unconscious and it took more power from him than it did for Sidious to render Yoda unconscious.

You could, but it wouldn't actually prove anything. Whether or not Sidious was going all out is irrelevant, it just makes Yoda's defense look even more sloppy and pathetic. The fact is that Yoda could block his lightning later, so Sidious' lightning clearly isn't more than Yoda can handle when he's serious. So if Sidious was holding back, it would have to be by a margin lesser than Yoda was.

There's no way to prove that Vitiate needed to use more power than Sidious did. Nor that he actually did. Vitiate pwned them casually, Sidious blasted Yoda with both hands. Who used more power? Who can say. I doubt Vitiate actually needed to use 2 attacks. He seemed to have had enough time to have used the charged attack before the Strike Team engaged him regardless of whether he opened with the Storm. I think he was just ****ing with them personally.

This argument in general is really ****ing stupid btw since we're using characters not going all out in both cases.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The only defense the strike team had were their sabers, some of which failed to block the attack with them. Sidious has blasted Yoda's saber right out of his hands.

As for the comparison between Yoda and Revan, Yoda has shown that he can block Palpatine's lightning when he uses his force absorption ability. So, yes, Yoda >> Revan. To suggest Revan is a Yoda level force user is beyond fan wanking. Hell, based on feats and accolades, I could make a better case for Dooku being capable of defeating Vitiate in combat, if you really want to be silly.

I know.

This is exactly the reason why I'm not going to bother responding again. You've already decided that Yoda >> Revan and theres no point is talking with you on the subject anymore.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Learn what a circular argument is before you try to insult mine. Again, Yoda being capable of absorbing energy that is otherwise potent enough to blast him unconscious had he not mastered the ability of force absorption, is not a circular argument.

Dooku has rendered Ventress unconscious with force lightning. Now, let's say shortly after, Ventress had learned how to absorb lightning with her hands, this wouldn't take away the impressiveness of Dooku's lightning when it did Knock her out. It would just mean that she learned of a defense of absorbing lightning that would otherwise be powerful enough to take her out.

Yes it is. You're using Yoda's own Tutaminis skills to establish his Tutaminis skill.

Yoda blocked Sidious' lightning is impressive because:

Sidious knocked out a being with Yoda's level of power.

You are using Yoda's own level of power to establish his level of power. Which establishes Sidious' level of power, which in turn establishes Yoda's level of power. That is an argument that goes in a circle. It is supported solely by its own premises rather than actual evidence.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Since you're unable to grasp it, then sure: Sidious has scorched a sith worm to ash; a weak version of his lightning was giving Mace, who was sunk deep in vapaad, a struggle. Conversely, both HoT and Revan have both handled Vitiate's lightning with their blade quite well despite being on a dark side nexus.

Yes, this is a valid means of establishing Sidious' power. Good job. I will probably just respond to this in the future.

Nyriss' lightning was able to disintegrate herself into ash despite having to break through a force barrier. Surely that's comparable to turning a sith worm to ash. right?

Revan only batted away single bolts of lightning, he didn't resist an actual stream of it. The HoT doing it just proves how immensely powerful they are. You can't say for certain that Windu's lightsaber defense is superior to theirs.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Which, again, wasn't my point. I clarified that yesterday. My comparison between them was directed at your attempts to constantly lowball Dooku (not just in this thread but others as well), who has shown to be greater than the opponents whom Vitiate has struggled with in combat.

So if you accept that point, then what do you think of Ant's argument? Revan dealt with Nyriss' lightning better than Yoda dealt with Dooku's. And Nyriss' lightning was much more potent than the lightning Dooku fired at Yoda. Wouldn't this indicate that Revan's tutaminis ability is greater than Yoda's? Or at least comparable?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Force barriers and defenses are invisible and are usually active when a force user is in a combat situation. How do you think Anakin was resisting Dooku's attack before finally being KO'd? Obviously the force is used to resist energy based attacks regardless of whether or not they know force absorption, which goes back to my other point that Yoda absorbing Palpatine's lightning that is otherwise potent enough to render him unconscious, is not circular logic.

Which only establishes the possibility of them using it, not proving they did.

Who said he was resisting? He got KO'd in a short burst.

Yes, I get your point. It's still dumb, Yoda's defense weren't near his later efforts so he wasn't able to bring his full power to bare.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He was still shown to struggle against Palpatine's weaker version of lightning, which wasn't intended to kill him, but rather to manipulate Anakin in choosing sides.

Theres no proof it was weaker or that he wasn't legitimately attacking Windu with his full power. In fact, I think Lucas directly said he tried to kill Mace with lightning, didn't he?

You're still not getting the point, Neph. That Yoda didn't use his best defense against lightning, which would be absorbing it with both hands, doesn't take away the impressiveness of Sidious being capable of knocking him unconscious. Again, for we've seen lesser powerful force users resist lightning for sometime, without even knowing how to absorb said power with their hands. Ventress has resisted lightning from Dooku, and so has Anakin. For example, in AOTC, it took a very short blast, coming from one hand, to put Anakin out of the fight for over 30 seconds, whereas during the CW, when Anakin grew in power, it took a prolonged attack + a force choke combo from Dooku just to render Anakin unconscious. Later during the war, Dooku used a two-handed lightning attack at close range to blast Anakin several meters away from him, and Anakin bounced back up right away. Evidently Anakin's growth in force power had a lot to do with his ability to resist more potent attacks of lightning than when he was a padawan in AOTC despite never mastering the ability to absorb lightning. Obviously being able to absorb lightning with your hands isn't the only way to negate the affects of it, otherwise why do you hold Vitiate taking out 4 jedi in such high esteem, considering most of them didn't know the ability to absorb lightning with their hands, and the fact that the lightning missed some of their sabers? Or why is scorching Nyriss to ash so impressive considering she didn't attempt to absorb (not block) her redirected attack?

Sidious has shown that he is capable of rendering a force user of Yoda's level, who hasn't mastered the ability of force absorption, on contact, considering he did so to Yoda himself when Yoda didn't attempt to absorb Sidious's lightning with both hands. That's not circular logic, Neph. It establishes the amount of energy Yoda can absorb when he puts his mastery of energy absorption to full use. What is so hard to grasp about that? No you don't understand my point, otherwise you wouldn't keep referring to it as a circular argument, which it's not. It just shows Yoda didn't use a particular ability to defend against Palpatine's first lightning attack, which would have otherwise been successful, as seen later during the fight.

Yes, I know the reason behind Ant's thread, but sorry, failing to absorb Vitiate's lightning doesn't put him on the level of Yoda, who has successfully absorbed a very prolonged lightning attack from Sidious, who was basically pouring lightning down Yoda, when he [Yoda] utilized that certain ability (force absorption). Furthermore, putting a force user on Yoda's level based on one good showing in one particular power, is silly. I know energy absorption requires a lot of raw power to master, but it's still only one ability that requires tremendous raw power out of dozens of other abilities.

I also realize you weren't trying to be serious in some of your responses. I was just showing you how your sarcasm fails, and that a lot of your recent serious arguments have been just as silly as your "sarcasm" in this thread.

Now, I'm done with this thread. You are dismissed. 😛

Originally posted by DarthAnt66
Why do you fail to grasp such a simple concept?
If the Dark Side is stronger, Revan must use more energy to balance it out with the Light.

Except it would be the same amount of Force energy flowing through both, so they will both amp the same amount of midiclorians.
However, we are getting far off from the original topic.

Prove that its in balance bro.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Do you... not understand the meaning of the word balance?

Revan isn't a lightside darkside though. 😬

Prove Revan's in balance.

That's simply not how a nexus works. As Ant said it would be the same increase no matter what.

In your opinion. I disagree.

If that's true Dooku wouldn't go from barely being able to own Ventress with the force to owning her with a finger.

Regardless of what you say though, it's nothing more than meaningless speculation that I can easily just dismiss or ignore. It's pointless to talk about such theoretical matters.

That sounds like pretty much every argument you make.

"I always felt that Revan was special because he learned to balance and call on both the light and dark sides of the Force."
―Drew Karpyshyn (Author)

"He had learned to balance on the knife-edge between them, drawing on both the light and dark sides for strength."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form."
―Star Wars The Old Republic: Revan

"Now, you will see the Force in balance!'
―Revan (Star Wars The Old Republic)

I accept your concession.