Darth Nihilus vs The Sith Emperor

Started by Sinious32 pages
Originally posted by NewGuy01
Vitiate was driven by fear, not hunger.

Hunger, fear, hate, desire it matters not. My point is, Nihilus is a unique case.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She have a point though, it is even officially stated that Emperor Vitiate drained to satiate his endless hunger. He adopted better strategy to do this though, by converting some of his minions to immortal beings and using them as an endless supply of energy. Makes sense.

Difference is that Emperor Vitiate wasn't unstable like Nihilus. The latter was driven by hunger and would consume himself without food supply. Emperor Vitiate did not had these weaknesses.

That's because Vitiate's not a wound in the force so its not so crazy to assume that his draini may not be the same with Nihilus'. Personally i think Nihilus' drain is much more efficient in combat.

Originally posted by Sinious
That's because Vitiate's not a wound in the force so its not so crazy to assume that his draini may not be the same with Nihilus'. Personally i think Nihilus' drain is much more efficient in combat.

Force Drain can be mastered irrespective of condition.

Nihilus's condition made it possible for him to swiftly perform Force Drain on a mass scale.

Emperor uses ritualistic method to unleash Force Drain on mass scale and he consumed biota in such a manner that their bodies also vanished, literally ate physical bodies. This indicates that Emperor mastered Force Drain to its highest degree.

No it didn't. Traya is the one who taught him to use it on a mass scale, almost as well as the ancients, who didn't even use Drain in the same way.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No it didn't. Traya is the one who taught him to use it on a mass scale, almost as well as the ancients, who didn't even use Drain in the same way.

Force Drain talent came naturally to Nihilus like in the case of Emperor, however, Nihilus mastered this power under tutelage of Traya and his condition allowed him to perform it on mass scale instinctively.

We don't even have proof that he was Force Sensitive before, let alone having the talent come to him naturally. Nor do we have any proof that says him being a wound is why he is able to use it on a massive scale. In fact, it's implied that he does it on a massive scale because of how much he used it, not him being a Force Wound.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
We don't even have proof that he was Force Sensitive before, let alone having the talent come to him naturally. Nor do we have any proof that says him being a wound is why he is able to use it on a massive scale. In fact, it's implied that he does it on a massive scale because of how much he used it, not him being a Force Wound.

Doesn't it say somewhere that he was part of a group of jedi on Malachor that got caught in the devastating destruction of Malachor or am I getting confused with Fanon?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Doesn't it say somewhere that he was part of a group of jedi on Malachor that got caught in the devastating destruction of Malachor or am I getting confused with Fanon?

It says he was on Malachor V, but nothing about him being part of the Jedi, there.

Originally posted by Kalen Sykes
It says he was on Malachor V, but nothing about him being part of the Jedi, there.

Oh well someone should look that up. because I might be wrong but remember hearing that he fed on the life force of two jedi and that's how his drain got started, I'm skeptical of that unless a real and trusted source states otherwise

He wasn't a jedi but I remember that he survived Malachor because he was naturally strong in the force though Im not sure.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
We don't even have proof that he was Force Sensitive before, let alone having the talent come to him naturally. Nor do we have any proof that says him being a wound is why he is able to use it on a massive scale. In fact, it's implied that he does it on a massive scale because of how much he used it, not him being a Force Wound.

Well;

&

&

From KoTOR-CG

Cool, I already have that. Can you remove the giant wall of page and quote the part that actually pertains to your point?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Cool, I already have that. Can you remove the giant wall of page and quote the part that actually pertains to your point?

So much this.

His page in the CG answers none of anyone's questions.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Traya didn't loose her personality to the hunger, Neph.

Mr. Avellone's assertion have been overruled by BioWare:

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life energy of every being on his homeworld.

Emperor consumed entire biota of his homeworld along with the Force itself surrounding the planet, leaving the planet as a void in the Force in the aftermath. In-fact, Emperor consumed the biota in such a manner that physical bodies of his victims no longer existed after the consumption. In short, Emperor surpassed even Darth Nihilus's ferocity in performing Force Drain.

Emperor would not have been able to perform this ritual without acquiring mastery in Force Drain and other talents, it represented the epitome of his Force Mastery in general. He didn't magically perform actions during the ritual, he prepared for this objective.

Also, KoTOR-CG pointed out that Nihilus performed Force Drain. He wasn't exclusive at learning this ability, Revan also did. KoTOR-CG revealed that Darth Nihilus mastered Force Drain.

Point is that KoTOR II and Mr. Avellone aren't the only sources to determine what Force Drain is, all available information should be taken in to consideration. This is what I have attempted to do in this thread but I have been accused of ignoring and other BS.

Darth Traya is a fallible character, she doesn't knows everything. She also lies and manipulates. She learned Force Drain as well but lied to Meetra Surik that this power could not be learned.

The actions of Emperor, Traya and Nihilus simply prove what can be achieved with Force Drain, if mastered to extreme level.

The analogy of Tutaminis explains this matter; Tutaminis based actions range from shielding skin from radiation of Sun to blocking a lightsaber with bare hands.

Their is no reason to assume that Emperor cannot be destructive with Force Drain in normal ways. He wouldn't have needed to grant immortality to his servants if he wasn't lethal with this talent.

As I said, that's because she only actually used the technique right before her death. There was no time for her to become enslaved to the power.

facepalmx

That overrules nothing. It is similar but not the same and Vitiate was consumed by his hunger. Also he surpassed him? That's a laugh-riot. Vitiate needed 8000 Sith Lords and a weeks long ritual to do what Nihilus did by himself in under a hour. Nihilus also destroyed everything on the planet Katarr barring Visas by the way. Go educate yourself and watch Unseen, Unheard on youtube.

Revan doesn't know the technique. Stop saying he does. He exhibited none of the effects of the technique nor demonstrated mastery of it. The Kotor CG giving him the power is just gameplay mechanics.

Translation: Legend doesn't like something so he says it's been retconned and that official sources are wrong. Wow, what a surprise. You are ignoring sources and only paying attention to the ones that seem to support your arguments. As usual.

That Traya gained mastery of the technique doesn't mean she lied. She said the technique couldn't be taught, but could be learned by experiencing it's effects and through instinct.

Vitiate's ritual may be similar, yes. But he's never demonstrated the ability to use the attack like Traya and Nihilus have, to instantly drain another of the Force and feed on their death. If he did have this ability to use at his whim he would have easily defeated the Hero of Tython through use of it. Since the technique has no real defense. He didn't.

Except that Nihilus' drain by itself has a wide range of its uses and levels of ability. It's used in a wide variety of ways such as Force Drain has never been used anywhere else. Because it's a seperate, but similar, technique.

Oh sweet Jesus, not this again. Vitiate didn't NEED to make them immortal in order to drain them. That's something you entirely MADE UP.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan doesn't know the technique. Stop saying he does. He exhibited none of the effects of the technique nor demonstrated mastery of it.

👇

I must have missed the part where Revan was a slavering abomination who could gigadrain everyone to death instantly and sapped the will of everyone near him. Or drew on the power of others through force bonds and influenced their minds. Or drew on the power of his opponents to become more powerful in the presence of powerful Force users.

Chronicles of the Old Republic explains this. His will was not consumed by Malachor V like the rest.

So what.

Why does that matter when the technique itself is the problem?

Everyone besides Revan have to drain the life of others because of the wound that consumed them of Malachor V. The Sith Assassins were among those who instinctively got the technique on Malachor V following the Mass Shadow Generator cataclysm. They "felt the echoes of unimaginable pain and suffering," just as Nihilus and Meetra did. A "vast emptiness" weighed down on them, and all they could do is to feed off of others to fill this. All of it consumed them. But they merely felt the aftermath. They were never there when the Mandalorian and Republic fleet was devoured. Revan was though. Revan was far enough away to not be in that shock-wave that Meetra Surik or Darth Nihilus were in, but as any disturbance in the Force, he felt it. Just as Obi-Wan Kenobi felt the destruction of Alderaan light years away, or that Revan himself felt the bombardment of Serroco, why would he not feel the deaths of Malachor V when he was litterally in orbit around the planet itself? You are not making much sense. Darth Traya even confirms he would have felt it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VvS5MLnG0Y Though that isn't my point. My point is rather that Revan did in fact walk on Malachor V after the devastation, and even set up his own Sith Academy there. He felt what the Sith Assassins felt, he suffered under the weight of Malachor V as all the rest did. Darth Traya, Darth Sion, and the Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide agree with me. I see no reason why Darth Revan would not have the same powers the Sith Assassins did when he did everything they did and more. One of the major things of the second game was when Darth Traya told you that Darth Revan corrupted Jedi through the powers of Malachor V.

"Revan knew the power of such places… and the power in making them. They can be used to break the will of others, of Jedi, promising them power, and turning them to the dark side."
―Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

- - - - -

"It corrupts all that walks on its surface, drowns them in the power of the dark side—it corrupts all life. And it feeds on death."
―Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords)

Though, there is also something I still must note though. Darth Traya was wrong about one thing. Malachor V can be resisted, and while herself, Darth Nihilus, and the Sith Assassins were consumed by its power, Darth Revan was not. "Revan's will allow[ed] him to feed on (and not be consumed by) the power of the dark side." He was able to feed on Malachor V to give him power. He was able to feel the pull of the Dark Side and the devastation he brought. However his will was powerful enough to not let it consume him (this is another extremely impressive telepathic resistance feat). This is ultimately the difference, as Revan does not do it out of instinct, but he can do it. He went where all the rest went and heard the cries that all the rest heard. He was no different from all the rest besides the fact that he was powerful enough to overcome Malachor V. Darth Nihilus, Darth Traya, and all the rest could not.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So what.