Darth Nihilus vs The Sith Emperor

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Here's what I read: "My opinion >Traya's word" Despite all the evidence to the contrary, you're stuck in the mindset that Drain Force and Drain Life are not the same thing, despite the in mythos support saying otherwise. Drain Force and Force Drain are not the same thing. And nothing supports that is.

Force Drain and Drain Life are synonyms of the same talent.

Darth Traya's explanations have created more confusion then clarifying what Force Drain is. She have history of manipulating others, she could be lying to Meetra Surik because this is a dark side ability and teaching it to Meetra Surik presented risk of another Darth Nihilus in the making because Meetra Surik was also a Wound like Darth Nihilus during this time. Meetra Surik eventually found out the truth when she witnessed Darth Traya using Force Drain to kill the Jedi Masters in front of her.

This is like people being used to believe that Earth is flat in history but then some explorers and researchers pointed out that this belief is wrong. But nope! Burn the witches for even daring to challenge commonly believed misconceptions. Blasphemy.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I didn't realize that revelations in official sourcebooks represent my personal opinion. 🙄

Force Drain and Drain Life are synonyms of the same talent.

Darth Traya's explanations have created more confusion then clarifying what Force Drain is. She have history of manipulating others, she could be lying to Meetra Surik because this is a dark side ability and teaching it to Meetra Surik presented risk of another Darth Nihilus in the making because Meetra Surik was also a Wound like Darth Nihilus during this time. Meetra Surik eventually found out the truth when she witnessed Darth Traya using Force Drain to kill the Jedi Masters in front of her.

This is like people being used to believe that Earth is flat in history but then some explorers and researchers pointed out that this belief is wrong. But nope! Burn the witches for even daring to challenge commonly believed misconceptions. Blasphemy.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The sourcebook doesn't say that Nihilus and Traya use the same type of drain as everyone else.

Following are the noted talents:-

- Drain Force (Darth Revan; Darth Nihilus)
- Dark Healing (Darth Malak; Darth Traya; Darth Sion)

I am not sure why Darth Traya have not been pointed out to have Drain Force talent, she seemingly have this talent as apparent from her actions against some Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It sure is. Too bad what Traya and Nihilus use is Drain Force, not Drain Life.

Drain Force, Force Drain and Drain Life are synonyms of the same talent. These are not different Force powers.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No. It really doesn't. The Exile herself is able to use Drain force when she kills Jedi Masters. Traya goes on to say that it is unteachable. Not that Force Drain is unteachable, but that the ability to destroy ones connection to the Force and consume their power is unteachable. I suggest that you research more, sense that is the key. Kreia also didn't fear the Exile going to the Dark Side. In fact, that exactly what she wanted. For the Exile to go to the Dark Side, cast aside all teachings of the Jedi and the Sith and to then end the Force itself, which she very much might have done as a wound. In fact, the sourceguide you keep trying to misquote says that Traya wants these Force Wounds for this very purpose. Traya only wants Nihilus dead for betraying her.

- Darth Traya was lying about the "unteachable" aspect.

- Force Drain is used to consume life-force of a living being, by doing so, it diminishes the being's ability to call upon the Force and kills the being. It is possible that Force Drain can disrupt a being's connection to the Force. It is also possible that Darth Traya used Force Sever talent in-conjunction with Force Drain talent to achieve the kind of outcome that you have pointed out.

- I am aware of Darth Traya's agenda but she wasn't teaching Meetra Surik ways of the dark side. She instructed her in the ways of the Jedi only. Darth Traya was mad but she didn't want to create Nihilus(es), her experience with one was enough for her.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No it's not. It's you not evening properly examining the evidence shown to you, and then claiming that the Earth is Mars, with even your sources saying otherwise.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice

Kreia also didn't fear the Exile going to the Dark Side. In fact, that exactly what she wanted. For the Exile to go to the Dark Side, cast aside all teachings of the Jedi and the Sith and to then end the Force itself, which she very much might have done as a wound. In fact, the sourceguide you keep trying to misquote says that Traya wants these Force Wounds for this very purpose. Traya only wants Nihilus dead for betraying her.
.

I really don't think so. During the last confrontation of the game, she says that she is disappointed and that the Exile wasted herself if you choose to be dark side and if you're light side aligned, she praises you.

Traya and Nihilus' technique is unique, Legend. In the case of regular drain it merely drains some power from the target and replenishes the energy needed to perform the technique in the first place, but their drain increases their own power permanently. Their drain also drains the target totally, leaving a hole in the Force. It also works in a unique way and has unique effects that other forms of drain don't.

Of course, you'd know this if you actually played the game.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Traya and Nihilus' technique is unique, Legend. In the case of regular drain it merely drains some power from the target and replenishes the energy needed to perform the technique in the first place, but their drain increases their own power permanently. Their drain also drains the target totally, leaving a hole in the Force. It also works in a unique way and has unique effects that other forms of drain don't.

Of course, you'd know this if you actually played the game.

Darth Malak used Dark Healing to replenish his energy from the Jedi captives while fighting Revan.

Darth Traya, Darth Nihilus and Emperor Vitiate used Force Drain to feed on others to fuel their power and even kill.

Also, Darth Nihilus didn't gets permanent power boost by feeding on others. He would get temporary boost because he had no connection with the Force after becoming a Wound. He needed to feed on others to survive, his power was dependent upon feeding on others.

I don't need to play the game to figure out nature of actions performed by these characters. I have sourcebooks to consider and rely upon.

Nihilus did get more powerful from feeding on others. Just like the Exile did. This is confirmed in the actual game. Its "temporary" for Nihilus only because of the cravings the technique causes, which btw no one else ever experiences for using Force drain.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nihilus did get more powerful from feeding on others. Just like the Exile did. This is confirmed in the actual game. Its "temporary" for Nihilus only because of the cravings the technique causes, which btw no one else ever experiences for using Force drain.

Darth Traya was correct in the sense that Darth Nihilus would perish if his food supply runs out, his food supply were other living beings. The assumption that Darth Nihilus had infinite power of the Force at his command have no basis, he lost his connection to the Force and he could not call upon the Force to perform actions like a normal Force-user. His powers are dependent upon the strength acquired from feeding on others but power acquired in this way wasn't fixed or constant because it was dispensed by performing tedious feats such as holding the flagship Ravager together and performing additional actions. The lack of connection with the Force resulted in this instability. This is why Darth Nihilus needed to feed on others endlessly.

When Darth Nihilus attacked a world (i.e. Katarr), he acquired sufficient strength to carry on his activities for a certain period of time. When strength (obtained in this manner) began to diminish due to being dispensed in various activities, he needed to feed again and sought another world to consume on mass scale. An endless cycle.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nihilus had no connection with the Force because of his Wound condition so he depended upon others for strength. He instinctively acquired Force Drain talent and used it to feed on others to satiate his hunger and gain power to use the Force. Hunger was a side-effect of his condition.

Darth Traya was correct in the sense that Darth Nihilus would perish if his food supply runs out, his food supply were other living beings. The assumption that Darth Nihilus had infinite power of the Force at his command have no basis, he lost his connection to the Force and he could not call upon the Force to perform actions like a normal Force-user. His powers are dependent upon the strength acquired from feeding on others but power acquired in this way wasn't fixed or constant because it was dispensed by performing tedious feats such as holding the flagship Ravager together and performing additional actions. The lack of connection with the Force resulted in this instability. This is why Darth Nihilus needed to feed on others endlessly.

When Darth Nihilus attacked a world (i.e. Katarr), he acquired sufficient strength to carry on his activities for a certain period of time. When strength (obtained in this manner) began to diminish due to being dispensed in various activities, he needed to feed again and sought another world to consume on mass scale. An endless cycle.

Yes, which doesn't mean that his power isn't his or a permanent addition to his force reserves. Just like Vitiates draining increased his, Nihilus' increased his power through feeding on others.

Which is only because he overused the technique and it ravished him. The Exile also used it to increase her power by feeding on slain opponents and others:

"It's... all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now.”"

And the Exiles power doesn't get depleted by performing tedious feats, it is constant.

Nihilus weakened because of the insatiable hunger, not because he depleted his force reserves. The hunger destroyed his physical body, not a lack of force power. Its the extreme ill-effects of the technique that caused Nihilus's downfall.

Don't try to debate me on this Legend. You have no idea what you're talking about and have never experienced the source material. I have and know a hell of a lot more about this than you.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes, which doesn't mean that his power isn't his or a permanent addition to his force reserves. Just like Vitiates draining increased his, Nihilus' increased his power through feeding on others.

Which is only because he overused the technique and it ravished him. The Exile also used it to increase her power by feeding on slain opponents and others:

"It's... all the death you've caused to get here. You feed on it, and you grow stronger. You're like Malachor... it's in you, it's what you are now.”"

And the Exiles power doesn't get depleted by performing tedious feats, it is constant.

Nihilus weakened because of the insatiable hunger, not because he depleted his force reserves. The hunger destroyed his physical body, not a lack of force power. Its the extreme ill-effects of the technique that caused Nihilus's downfall.

Don't try to debate me on this Legend. You have no idea what you're talking about and have never experienced the source material. I have and know a hell of a lot more about this than you.

A wound in the Force does not have connection with the Force, this implies that such an individual is like a normal person.

When Darth Traya and Meetra Surik met, they formed a bond. I am not sure who was responsible for this development but Surik's strength came from this development. Your revelation implies that Meetra Surik was somewhat like Darth Nihilus by virtue of her condition and she benefitted from her kills.

Darth Nihilus, however, was not stable. He had to feed on others to gain strength and he had to continue this activity for his survival. His hunger simply motivated him or forced him to continue to feed on others, it was a side-effect of his condition but Meetra Surik did not had this side-effect.

Existence again becomes unbearable, but then hope materializes. (KoTOR-CG)

&

However, as Nihilus greedily consumes entire planet's life energy, the dark side macerates him even faster. But no matter. Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last whole galaxy becomes food - for Nihilus has become the hunger. (KoTOR-CG)

My point is that Darth Nihilus acquires strength by feeding on others, his strength is not permanent and not his own. It was necessary for him to feed or he would have eventually perished.

---

I will benefit from your greater knowledge here.

Originally posted by Sinious
I really don't think so. During the last confrontation of the game, she says that she is disappointed and that the Exile wasted herself if you choose to be dark side and if you're light side aligned, she praises you. [/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]How can one be a wound in the Force and also have strength like a Force-user?

A wound in the Force does not have connection with the Force, this implies that such an individual is like a normal person.

When Darth Traya and Meetra Surik met, they formed a bond. I am not sure who was responsible for this development but Surik's strength came from this development. Your revelation implies that Meetra Surik was somewhat like Darth Nihilus by virtue of her condition and she benefitted from her kills.

Darth Nihilus, however, was not stable. He had to feed on others to gain strength and he had to continue this activity for his survival. His hunger simply motivated him or forced him to continue to feed on others, it was a side-effect of his condition but Meetra Surik did not had this side-effect.

Existence again becomes unbearable, but then hope materializes. (KoTOR-CG)

&

However, as Nihilus greedily consumes entire planet's life energy, the dark side macerates him even faster. But no matter. Nothing matters except his hunger. Before it devours him totally, Nihilus uses its power to displace his persona into his robes and armor. As his useless body disintegrates, he becomes living primitive intention; at last whole galaxy becomes food - for Nihilus has become the hunger. (KoTOR-CG)

My point is that Darth Nihilus acquires strength by feeding on others, his strength is not permanent and not his own. It was necessary for him to feed or he would have eventually perished.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
If you choose Light Side choices, she'll say you've learned nothing and so on.

She says the exact same thing if you choose dark side.

Not if you say you'll stick a saber through her face.

LeGenD stop talking about games you haven't played.

The council scene that Neph links explains literally everything you've got wrong, at Least youtube it or something, Jesus.

Originally posted by Sinious
She says the exact same thing if you choose dark side.

No, she'll say that but she won't mean it either way.

If you sacrifice yourself for the galaxy, or become the next Dark Lord of the Sith, she'll praise you to no end.

I don't need to play the game to figure out nature of actions performed by these characters. I have sourcebooks to consider and rely upon.

I lold.

- Meetra Surik does not have this talent. Your choices in the game are irrelevant.
- Darth Traya was lying about the "unteachable" aspect.
- Force Drain is used to consume life-force of a living being, by doing so, it diminishes the being's ability to call upon the Force and kills the being. It is possible that Force Drain can disrupt a being's connection to the Force. It is also possible that Darth Traya used Force Sever talent in-conjunction with Force Drain talent to achieve the kind of outcome that you have pointed out.
- I am aware of Darth Traya's agenda but she wasn't teaching Meetra Surik ways of the dark side. She instructed her in the ways of the Jedi only. Darth Traya was mad but she didn't want to create Nihilus(es), her experience with one was enough for her.

1- Wrong, you'd know if you played the game
2- A ridiculous "theory" with no base
3- Incorrect, as Force Sever doesn't work on light Siders.
4- Also incorrect, she taught her both in the hopes that mastering both sides would allow her limitless power, she wanted a Grey force user, like her, willing to be whatever she needed to be for the galaxy to survive..

But of course, you'd know that if you played the game.

I'm starting to think Drew might know more about the game than LeGenD does.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
I'm starting to think Drew might know more about the game than LeGenD does.

Or maybe LeGenD IS Drew?

He doesn't love Revan and Bane enough to be Drew.

Based on emails I have with Drew, he doesn't like Revan either tbh.