this was done before and it was never really decided. problem is, cool and awesome as black was, he simply didn't have the huge number of feats to compare to jonzz. that also meant he was missing some of jonzz poorer showings as well.
has mm ever done anything like controls hundreds of villains simultaneously? driven bizarro and silver banshee sane? well, he did make joker sane for a time, and the megaddon showing was cool as hell. he's linked all minds on earth and even communicated across dimensions let alone interstellar distances.
black however was able to keep jonzz out of luthor's mind. does that mean he's stronger? could mm have found luthor's secret if he really pushed? i dunno.
imo, they are really close, but an edge to mm just because he has so many feats. if you want to factor in the low feats maybe a slight edge to black. if you equate fernus with mm a much bigger majority to mm....
whew....tough call. lol
So that you can mercilessly beat them down and show them how wrong you think they are?
I mean, you've obviously seen every appearance of both, and more importantly, made your mind up about what they represent. IOW, no one is going to change your opinion.
But you seem most interested in changing others'.
Why is it so important? Is it so you can pump up another of Superman's foes, whilst putting down one of his colleagues?
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Of course. You caught me, good sir.
So that you can mercilessly beat them down and show them how wrong you think they are?
😱
I mean, you've obviously seen every appearance of both, and more importantly, made your mind up about what they represent. IOW, no one is going to change your opinion.Please. I created a thread. Anyway, the scans in question.But you seem most interested in changing others'.
Why is it so important? Is it so you can pump up another of Superman's foes, whilst putting down one of his colleagues?
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16859118/Superman_v2_183_-_13.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16859083/ActionComics796p05.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16859084/ActionComics796p06.jpg.html
Re: Manchester Black vs Martian Manhunter
Originally posted by abhilegend
Telepathic battle only. Who wins? Preboot characters of course.
Out of curiosity, has Black even appeared Post-FLASHPOINT?
Originally posted by leonidas
this was done before and it was never really decided. problem is, cool and awesome as black was, he simply didn't have the huge number of feats to compare to jonzz. that also meant he was missing some of jonzz poorer showings as well.has mm ever done anything like controls hundreds of villains simultaneously? driven bizarro and silver banshee sane? well, he did make joker sane for a time, and the megaddon showing was cool as hell. he's linked all minds on earth and even communicated across dimensions let alone interstellar distances.
black however was able to keep jonzz out of luthor's mind. does that mean he's stronger? could mm have found luthor's secret if he really pushed? i dunno.
imo, they are really close, but an edge to mm just because he has so many feats. if you want to factor in the low feats maybe a slight edge to black. if you equate fernus with mm a much bigger majority to mm....
whew....tough call. lol
Black was basically outright stated to be an equal or more powerful telepath than J'Onn, and achieved a few comparative feats that J'Onn was unable to do(although not under the same writers). I think you could argue J'Onn having an advantage in experience/skill in actual telepathic combat.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So that you can mercilessly beat them down and show them how wrong you think they are?I mean, you've obviously seen every appearance of both, and more importantly, made your mind up about what they represent. IOW, no one is going to change your opinion.
But you seem most interested in changing others'.
Why is it so important? Is it so you can pump up another of Superman's foes, whilst putting down one of his colleagues?
Maybe he's doing it for the fun of the debate?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Manchester swapped Superman and Bizarro's minds and stopped J'onn from learning who did it. J'onn even conceded that whoever stopped him from probing Lex was a superior telepath.And J'onn couldn't even read Bizarro's mind let alone make him sane.
where did black swap supes and bizarro's minds? and where was it that mm conceded that whoever blocked him from probing lex was superior? don't think i've seen either scan and i was pretty sure i'd read all of black's appearances.
regardless, mm has interstellar feats and has linked all minds globally effortlessly. he made joker sane--briefly, which is more impressive to me than the bizarro feat. black MAY be the better tp but it's a difficult thing to prove because mm has so many good feats.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Black was basically outright stated to be an equal or more powerful telepath than J'Onn, and achieved a few comparative feats that J'Onn was unable to do(although not under the same writers). I think you could argue J'Onn having an advantage in experience/skill in actual telepathic combat.
which is basically what i said.....though as i asked abhi--where did mm concede black could be more powerful? bottom line is they are very close and it may well depend on whether you factor in mm's low feats which in this case isn't entirely fair because black had too few appearances to really have low feats, though i guess his sister was ultimately able to defeat him in jl elite but she had help from manitou raven. that whole arc was weird...
Originally posted by leonidas
he made joker sane--briefly, which is more impressive to me than the bizarro feat.which is basically what i said.....though as i asked abhi--where did mm concede black could be more powerful? bottom line is they are very close and it may well depend on whether you factor in mm's low feats which in this case isn't entirely fair because black had too few appearances to really have low feats, though i guess his sister was ultimately able to defeat him in jl elite but she had help from manitou raven. that whole arc was weird...
To be honest, I'd put making Bizarro intelligent for longer term as more impressive than J'Onn straining to temporarily make Joker sane. Black also was able to reprogram Doomsday's mind to see Imperiex Probes as Superman, where J'Onn has failed to do much of anything against Doomsday, telepathically, on at least two occasions.
And you said nothing about J'Onn's experience/skill in telepathic battle. 😒 Anyways the scans Abhi posted are of the scene. Superman stated as being the reason J'Onn found Luthor was telling the truth. J'Onn stated "perhaps," but you have to take into account J'Onn can't make assumptions here. Black has done things J'Onn has failed as I pointed-out
And I'm not sure what happened with Black and his sister in JL ELITE. You're right, it was weird. I'd have to check again, but he might not have actually been involved at all, it might have been simply Vera Black was crazy. I wasn't even sure what happened when I read it, let alone now.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So that you can mercilessly beat them down and show them how wrong you think they are?I mean, you've obviously seen every appearance of both, and more importantly, made your mind up about what they represent. IOW, no one is going to change your opinion.
But you seem most interested in changing others'.
Why is it so important? Is it so you can pump up another of Superman's foes, whilst putting down one of his colleagues?
This. It's obvious why ABHI made this thread.
Originally posted by Delta1938
Or, he just wanted to debate. But hey, Kitty-Cat is usually wrong.
Kitty Cat? Why would he make a thread when it has already been stated on panel that Manchester is stronger? Anything else brought up about MM is thrown out of the Window because it has already been confirmed who is the most powerful telepath. I know he is your Superman buddy and you're taking up for him, but, sometimes you need to open those eyes of yours. Since this topic is derailing the already decided thread, I'm not engaging this any further.
Originally posted by carver9
Kitty Cat? Why would he make a thread when it has already been stated on panel that Manchester is stronger? Anything else brought up about MM is thrown out of the Window because it has already been confirmed who is the most powerful telepath. I know he is your Superman buddy and you're taking up for him, but, sometimes you need to open those eyes of yours. Since this topic is derailing the already decided thread, I'm not engaging this any further.
Some people want to, ya know, have a debate. But I have a question. Do you still think I'm wrong that Wonder Woman's creator invented the polygraph?
Originally posted by Delta1938
To be honest, I'd put making Bizarro intelligent for longer term as more impressive than J'Onn straining to temporarily make Joker sane. Black also was able to reprogram Doomsday's mind to see Imperiex Probes as Superman, where J'Onn has failed to do much of anything against Doomsday, telepathically, on at least two occasions.And you said nothing about J'Onn's experience/skill in telepathic battle. 😒 Anyways the scans Abhi posted are of the scene. Superman stated as being the reason J'Onn found Luthor was telling the truth. J'Onn stated "perhaps," but you have to take into account J'Onn can't make assumptions here. Black has done things J'Onn has failed as I pointed-out
And I'm not sure what happened with Black and his sister in JL ELITE. You're right, it was weird. I'd have to check again, but he might not have actually been involved at all, it might have been simply Vera Black was crazy. I wasn't even sure what happened when I read it, let alone now.
lol i didn't even see abhi's post when i scrolled down. i went to the end, saw yours and didn't see his scans. cool, you were right. 👆
in the elite, we find out black didn't actually kill himself but he needed a host body. the whole thing was weird, especially with the worlogog....
anyway, both have done things the other has not. for instance, i dount black could communicate across dimensions like mm could. i brought up the doomsday tweak in a different thread but yeah, that was a good one. in strict tp battle, i might change my mind and give black a slight edge, but mm is so old and has so much experience..... meh, screw it, i'll settle on a split i think. 😂
Originally posted by leonidas
lol i didn't even see abhi's post when i scrolled down. i went to the end, saw yours and didn't see his scans. cool, you were right. 👆in the elite, we find out black didn't actually kill himself but he needed a host body. the whole thing was weird, especially with the worlogog....
anyway, both have done things the other has not. for instance, i dount black could communicate across dimensions like mm could. i brought up the doomsday tweak in a different thread but yeah, that was a good one. in strict tp battle, i might change my mind and give black a slight edge, but mm is so old and has so much experience..... meh, screw it, i'll settle on a split i think. 😂
hahah Missing posts happens.
I read JLE, but I could've sworn that they said Vera wasn't possessed by her brother, she was just crazy and thought that. It was odd. I actually don't even think I noticed the Worlogog being in there and only knew about it in the story when I saw Abhi mention it in a post he made in the Superman respect thread.
The thing is, we KNOW Manchester Black has done things J'Onn wasn't able to. I'm not trying to go the No Limits Fallacy, but I think it's not a good argument to bring-up J'Onn doing things Manchester hasn't and assuming he couldn't. I think a better argument would be bringing-up J'Onn's greater experience in telepathic battle, like against his brother Malefic in that storyline looking into Mars' past when Apokolips invaded because of Malefic.
And split? What a cop-out!!! huhu
Originally posted by abhilegend
Manchester swapped Superman and Bizarro's minds and stopped J'onn from learning who did it. J'onn even conceded that whoever stopped him from probing Lex was a superior telepath.And J'onn couldn't even read Bizarro's mind let alone make him sane.
