Captain Marvel VS Kurse

Originally posted by carver9
Just report him and end it (H1).

This was my reply to Galan's post you just quoted.

You know what the hell a retcon is. Stop being stupid. Then using, silly ass words like, "they're peers. irrefutable" shows you are playing a con game.
It doesn't matter what writer intent was as
1. It was retcon that Superman holds back subconsciously and was explained clear as day in the OWAW arc. That means he can't overcome mental blocks without proper meditation or extreme circumstances.
2. Superman has gotten upgrades over the years. Do other characters automatically get upgraded too to stay in relation to Superman without being explicitly stated to?

Retcon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>writer's intent from earlier comic. You beat me and others on an argument before using that reasoning.
HOTM was a retcon, despite Savage Hulk fighting all those peers of his and appearing as equals.

In other words, what happens on panel>>>>>>>>anything else (including a different writer's intentions).

Originally posted by h1a8
This was my reply to Galan's post you just quoted.

You know what the hell a retcon is. Stop being stupid. Then using, silly ass words like, "they're peers. irrefutable" shows you are playing a con game.
It doesn't matter what writer intent was as
1. It was retcon that Superman holds back subconsciously and was explained clear as day in the OWAW arc. That means he can't overcome mental blocks without proper meditation or extreme circumstances.
2. Superman has gotten upgrades over the years. Do other characters automatically get upgraded too to stay in relation to Superman without being explicitly stated to?

Retcon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>writer's intent from earlier comic. You beat me and others on an argument before using that reasoning.
HOTM was a retcon, despite Savage Hulk fighting all those peers of his and appearing as equals.

In other words, what happens on panel>>>>>>>>anything else (including a different writer's intentions).

REALLY DUDE??

Superman wasn't able to take on Imperiex in his current state either, and allowed Mongul Jr. to train him to fight more efficiently in outer space, and to use his own powers effectively. When they were ready, they decided to confront Imperiex somewhere near Saturn. Superman and Mongul Jr. managed to destroy Imperiex's construct (which was used to "hollow" galaxies) and believed that they had stopped Imperiex.

In other words, mongul jr taught superman how to fight better and far more efficiently using his abilities better. Its just like a rookie boxer getting trained by a skilled trainer to be more effective with the powers and skill he has. Sorry. those probes are next dude.

Originally posted by JBL
You say mongul jr taught superman how to drop his BS mental blocks??

REALLY DUDE??

Superman wasn't able to take on Imperiex in his current state either, and allowed Mongul Jr. to train him to fight more efficiently in outer space, and to use his own powers effectively. When they were ready, they decided to confront Imperiex somewhere near Saturn. Superman and Mongul Jr. managed to destroy Imperiex's construct (which was used to "hollow" galaxies) and believed that they had stopped Imperiex.

In other words, mongul jr taught superman how to fight better and far more efficiently using his abilities better. Its just like a rookie boxer getting trained by a skilled trainer to be more effective with the powers and skill he has. Sorry. those probes are next dude.

So you didn't read the parts discussing Superman's mental blocks of holding his power back and his meditation to overcome them? You didn't read the part where Superman goes from fighting probes for hours and not doing much to them to one shotting them like fodder. Superman was shown fighting more effectively before the training (using his powers simultaneously and not doing much of anything). After the training, Superman is one shotting them right and left with single physical attacks.

Then we have the DOS arc.
How do you explain how Superman went from not being able to even cause DD pain to killing him in mere moments AFTER Lois convinced him that the only way to win is to let go and be willing to kill? Superman knows that if he doesn't then everyone, including Lois, will die. Then prior to this, Superman thought that he was already using his full might against DD. But that was his conscious might hindered by his subconscious.
That's like Thor going from not being able to cause Juggernaut pain to literally killing him in a few panels. Shit like that don't happen unless a insane power increase happens.

Also we have on panel evidence supporting that Superman's power level is dependent on his belief. In one comic, he had anmesia and didn't know he had powers. In that comic, his belief affected his powers to the level where he was actually powerless (able to easily get hurt, etc.). Byrne stated that Superman's powers are part psionic and based off his will.

Finally, we have Superman with explicitly stated upgrades to his power (the comics explicitly states Superman has gotten much stronger). So CM staying the same can't possibly be his physical equal.

Originally posted by h1a8
So you didn't read the parts discussing Superman's mental blocks of holding his power back and his meditation to overcome them? You didn't read the part where Superman goes from fighting probes for hours and not doing much to them to one shotting them like fodder. Superman was shown fighting more effectively before the training (using his powers simultaneously and not doing much of anything). After the training, Superman is one shotting them right and left with single physical attacks.

Then we have the DOS arc.
How do you explain how Superman went from not being able to even cause DD pain to killing him in mere moments AFTER Lois convinced him that the only way to win is to let go and be willing to kill? Superman knows that if he doesn't then everyone, including Lois, will die. Then prior to this, Superman thought that he was already using his full might against DD. But that was his conscious might hindered by his subconscious.
That's like Thor going from not being able to cause Juggernaut pain to literally killing him in a few panels. Shit like that don't happen unless a insane power increase happens.

Also we have on panel evidence supporting that Superman's power level is dependent on his belief. In one comic, he had anmesia and didn't know he had powers. In that comic, his belief affected his powers to the level where he was actually powerless (able to easily get hurt, etc.). Byrne stated that Superman's powers are part psionic and based off his will.

Finally, we have Superman with explicitly stated upgrades to his power (the comics explicitly states Superman has gotten much stronger). So CM staying the same can't possibly be his physical equal.

It surprises me to see that you get so much correct, but then drop the ball on how Captain Marvel is stronger than Kurse? Captain Marvel, and Black Adam are most certainly in Gladiator, Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, and many others level in terms of power, and strength. Kurse is above this level, and was created to be nearly invulnerable. CM, is not going to be hitting Kurse with greater force than Beta Ray Bill hits while using his hammer. Kurse was pretty much unaffected by these types of assaults. Like I said in the beginning, I don't understand how you are able to get so many things correct, but then turn around, and drop the ball concerning Kurse.

Originally posted by JBL
Superman does not have dynamic strength. End of story. Even his many writers know this, why would every writer state that CM and superman are equal in strength if they thought superman had dynamic strength?? Why would they state other characters are stronger than superman if superman had dynamic strength?? Why would they have him fighting BA or CM as equals if they thought he had dynamic strength??? You think superman can really talk in the comic??? The writers put those words in his mouth. Superman is not that much stronger than WW. Get over it once and for all.

Ya know what? You're so confident New Earth Superman doesn't have dynamic powers, put your money where your mouth is. Let's battlezone it. Loser gets banned for a month

Originally posted by Stoic
It surprises me to see that you get so much correct, but then drop the ball on how Captain Marvel is stronger than Kurse? Captain Marvel, and Black Adam are most certainly in Gladiator, Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, and many others level in terms of power, and strength. Kurse is above this level, and was created to be nearly invulnerable. CM, is not going to be hitting Kurse with greater force than Beta Ray Bill hits while using his hammer. Kurse was pretty much unaffected by these types of assaults. Like I said in the beginning, I don't understand how you are able to get so many things correct, but then turn around, and drop the ball concerning Kurse.

I believe CM is stronger than Thor or BRB. Now, assuming he isn't, CM can still affect Kurse. When Kurse was twice as strong as Thor, Kurse had the upper hand and Thor barely affected him (thor still affected him). When Thor put on the belt of strength then Thor affected him much more and had the upper hand. The physics THAT writer portrayed was that someone twice as strong can not be very much affected by the weaker. His form of physics contradict the history of comics and real life. There are literally thousands of showings where weakers affect strongers (twice or more as strong) all the time. Thing affecting Hulk, Cap affecting everyone, Spidey affecting almost everyone, Iron Man, Batman, Aquaman, etc. A 10 year child can bring pain to an adult man in many ways.

So for Thor to double his strength as a means to affect Kurse greatly implies the type of physics that writer was using (faulty). Thus the showing can be combated with:
1. Thor has affected greater beings
2. Someone twice as strong as Thor or more could affect Kurse
3. Thousands of showings displaying that weakers can affect strongers.

With that said, since CM can indeed affect Kurse but is insanely faster then CM wins over Kurse with relative ease.

Originally posted by Stoic
It surprises me to see that you get so much correct, but then drop the ball on how Captain Marvel is stronger than Kurse? Captain Marvel, and Black Adam are most certainly in Gladiator, Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Blue Marvel, and many others level in terms of power, and strength. Kurse is above this level, and was created to be nearly invulnerable. CM, is not going to be hitting Kurse with greater force than Beta Ray Bill hits while using his hammer. Kurse was pretty much unaffected by these types of assaults. Like I said in the beginning, I don't understand how you are able to get so many things correct, but then turn around, and drop the ball concerning Kurse.

He gets so much correct? Like what?

Originally posted by h1a8
Stop trolling. I mean it. I already gave undeniable proof that Superman is at least several times stronger when he SUBCONSCIOUSLY stop holding back.
We have where Superman going from not being able to hurt DD (using all of his conscious might) to killing DD in a few panels (when he released his mental blocks). This is beyond a 5x increase.

We have batman outright stating Superman has mental blocks that makes him subconsciously hold back when members of the JL thought Supergirl was stronger. Meaning, Superman doesn't know he's holding back at times or can't consciously prevent it at times.

We have OWAW where it explicitly states and shows Superman subconsciously holding back and Superman having to be trained through meditation and hypnotize himself to release those mental blocks to be on a insane level he never reached. He went from fighting probes for hours to one shotting them like fodder. This is more than a 5x increase.

We have Superman increasing his power over the years (he got several amps) after he an CM fought evenly before. He has gotten at least 3x more powerful over the years. From mountain moving to planet lifting.

Lastly, you are an idiot.
Why do you even post when you don't ever debate. All you do is enemy D.C. characters. Strength doesn't win forum fights idiot. Whose stronger has absolutely nothing to do with the winner when two characters have different power sets. CM is faster and can't be touched if he doesn't want to be. Kurse has no super speed. CM has flight and can bfr Kurse to outer space at any time in the fight. This alone proves that idiots only see strength.

P.S. if two beings are holding back and appear to be equals, that doesn't mean they are equal. One can be holding back much more than the other. For example, CM could be twice as strong when he stops holding back and Superman 5x as strong. CM never ever showed a 5x or more
in strength when he stop holding back.

This is like the first time I've ever seen H1 get pissed.

Originally posted by h1a8
You know what the hell a retcon is. Stop being stupid. Then using, silly ass words like, "they're peers. irrefutable" shows you are playing a con game.
It doesn't matter what writer intent was as
1. It was retcon that Superman holds back subconsciously and was explained clear as day in the OWAW arc. That means he can't overcome mental blocks without proper meditation or extreme circumstances.
2. Superman has gotten upgrades over the years. Do other characters automatically get upgraded too to stay in relation to Superman without being explicitly stated to?

Retcon>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>writer's intent from earlier comic. You beat me and others on an argument before using that reasoning.
HOTM was a retcon, despite Savage Hulk fighting all those peers of his and appearing as equals.

and on that note, reported for bashing. 👆

Originally posted by Galan007
more recent comics than OWAW have superman outright stating that shazam holds the advantage over him, toe-to-toe. i suggest actually *reading* the pertinent comics before throwing a bash-filled tantrum.

and on that note, reported for bashing. 👆

You mean SUPERMAN/BATMAN #4?

Originally posted by abhilegend
Peers, yes. Identical in strength? No. Otherwise Cap would've won this bout amping his strength.

anywho, i really don't care if people claim that superman is *marginally* more powerful than shazam--but acting like the difference between them equates to many orders of magnitude is an outright lie that directly contradicts on panel happenings. they're peers. always have been.

Originally posted by Delta1938
Ya know what? You're so confident New Earth Superman doesn't have dynamic powers, put your money where your mouth is. Let's battlezone it. Loser gets banned for a month

lol gawd, how i'd love to see that happen....he'll never except your challenge in a million years though. he'd lose for certain and being banned for a month=no anti-superman hate for a month. he couldn't stand it. 😂

Originally posted by Galan007
they're peers. always have been.

i haven't read any of this aside from the last couple posts but....how in all the blue hells can anyone possibly think any different after all these years.....? 😑

Originally posted by leonidas
lol gawd, how i'd love to see that happen....he'll never except your challenge in a million years though. he'd lose for certain and being banned for a month=no anti-superman hate for a month. he couldn't stand it. 😂

If he does, I'll be sure to PM you before it starts.

Originally posted by leonidas
i haven't read any of this aside from the last couple posts but....how in all the blue hells can anyone possibly think any different after all these years.....? 😑

Stuff people don't take into account.

Looser should get a pineapple in the @ss

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Looser should get a pineapple in the @ss

JBL is probably already in a french maid outfit.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Looser should get a pineapple in the @ss

JBL will lose on purpose because the idea of such a large object shoved up his anus makes him cum just thinking about it.

Kurse 9/10

Originally posted by Galan007
more recent comics than OWAW have superman outright stating that shazam holds the advantage over him, toe-to-toe. i suggest actually *reading* the pertinent comics before throwing a bash-filled tantrum...especially when i wasn't even responding to you in the first place.

and on that note, reported for bashing. 👆

In summary, we are gauging CM's strength through Superman in order to find where he stands against Kurse. Arguing that CM and Superman are peers because of magic vulnerability is irrelevant to that discussion. We are arguing strength only.

Originally posted by Galan007
you and i both know that ANY time they've met or battled on panel, they are ALWAYS treated as near-equals. hell, in S/B #4 superman himself stated that shazam holds the advantage over him toe-to-toe, thanks to his magical nature.

anywho, i really don't care if people claim that superman is *marginally* more powerful than shazam--but acting like the difference between them equates to many orders of magnitude is an outright lie that directly contradicts on panel happenings. they're peers. always have been.