Originally posted by psmith81992
Mediocre as in he doesn't stand out from the powerful sith lords, thereby being on a tier firmly below them.
I agree with this. Usually in the mythos we only ever deal with the best. So when people are significantly below these guys I may call then crappy or mediocre but they're still really powerful characters. I rank Qui-Gon and Cin Drallig rather low on this forum, but in universe they're among the most elite to have ever lived. Dooku is a mid-tier Sith for me, but only because he's being compared to the true giants. Among the Sith we discuss, he's mediocre. Among every Sith in history his prowess is exceptional.
I'm sure Wredd is very powerful. But yes, he's probably still relative small-fry.
psmith81992
Mediocre as in he doesn't stand out from the powerful sith lords, thereby being on a tier firmly below them.
Powerful by what standards though?
I don't consider, say, Quinlan Vos a mediocre Jedi, even though he's not even on a level of most of the council. Or Kit Fisto, even though he's even stronger. Or Qui-gon, as Neph mentioned.
Is Thanaton mediocre? There's plenty more powerful than him in TOR.
Is your definition of mediocre simply 'one tier down from the top?'. Well, if so, then sure, he's mediocre... but so's almost everyone of any era. Seems an odd usage of the term.
I don't think Wredd's mediocre, but I also agree he's not on a tier with the top sith, because I don't think you have to be one of the top to be not-mediocre.
Originally posted by Q99
Is Thanaton mediocre? There's plenty more powerful than him in TOR.
Your "plenty more powerful" claim is baseless. Darth Thanaton have few rivals and superiors actually.
Originally posted by Q99
Is your definition of mediocre simply 'one tier down from the top?'. Well, if so, then sure, he's mediocre... but so's almost everyone of any era. Seems an odd usage of the term.I don't think Wredd's mediocre, but I also agree he's not on a tier with the top sith, because I don't think you have to be one of the top to be not-mediocre.
And there aren't "plenty" better than him in TOR, just a small handful, MAYBE.
Your "plenty more powerful" claim is baseless. Darth Thanaton have few rivals and superiors actually.
Vitiate, Malgus, Baras, Nox, Emperor's Wrath, Jadus, Raptus and maybe the other Dread Masters... on the Sith side of things.
Mind you, I'm not saying Thanaton's mediocre. I'm saying you're not defining what you consider mediocre so for all I know your definition includes him.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wredd doesn't seems to be a powerful individual by Sith standards.
None the less, his TK feat is very much on the large size.
You know I did bring up quite a few possible examples as well.
I can't help but notice both of you are dancing around the questions I'm asking and hemming and hawing rather than saying what you actually *do* consider mediocre.
I'm going to conclude that you don't actually have an answer or a consistent level you consider 'mediocre,' you'd just decided to peg it here this time... because.
I did a list a while ago and Thanaton isn't in the top 20 of the era IMO.
Vitiate
HoT
Wrath
Thor
Nox
Baras
First Son
Raptus
Bestia
Brontes
Calphayus
Styrak
Tyrans
Scourge
Satele
Malgus
Vivicar
Marr
Jadus
Braga
(not in order)
Considering I actually put Thanaton as pretty close to Dooku level in terms of the Force (though he's far behind in TK), I think his low placement in the era speaks of the level of quality in the TOR elite. Most of that list was Sith too btw.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Nah, it just looks like you're a raging SWTOR fanboy whose opinions are worthless. 131
Eh, as people above have pointed out, Thanaton is legit powerful. Nox is too. I mean, by the beginning of Act II Nox is a pretty powerful Jedi Master level by feats and has defeated Jedi and Sith Masters who are noted as powerful. And Thanaton one-shot her despite Nox reinforcing her power with that of two Sith spirits. That's something Dooku level in my opinion. He can handle even strong Jedi Masters easily. And he can handle people even greater than that, also easily.
But evidently so can Thanaton.
Concession accepted babe.
Originally posted by psmith81992
I'm not sure you can make a case for even half of these guys.
Vitiate - Duh, is Vitiate.
HoT - Duh, is HoT.
Wrath - Defeated Sel Makor inhabiting the Emperor's Voice, defeated Baras, can resist the Dread Master's direct mental assault, was chosen as the Wrath to be above the Dark Council, stated to be among the Empire's greatest champions.
Thor - Duh, dem TK feats bro. Also beat First Son + Vivicar.
Nox - Duh, stomped him.
Baras - Amped by Sel Makor, so powerful he dominated the Dark Council and was considered almost unstoppable. Gave the Wrath a tremendous fight.
First Son - Vitiate's second in command, could conceal hundreds of Sith across the galaxy. Arguably more powerful than the Barsen'thor.
Raptus - Dread Master
Bestia - Dread Master
Brontes - Dread Master
Calphayus - Dread Master
Styrak - Dread Master
Tyrans - Dread Master
Scourge - Killed over a thousand opponents, said by Revan to have tremendous potential, enforced Vitiate's will over the Dark Council for 300 years, confident he could take Sajar, the HoT and an entire republic base solo.
Satele - Grandmaster, great TK, tutaminis, lightsaber and barrier feats.
Malgus - Duh, is Malgus.
Vivicar - Almost solo'd the Jedi Order, could permanently dominate minds, amped off of hundreds of Jedi Masters.
Marr - Said to have prowess second to none, leader of the Council, fought off armies and fleets supposedly solo.
Jadus - Teleportation, shielded his ship from destruction, mere presence caused harm, supposedly the second most powerful Sith in the Empire.
Braga - Gave the Hero of Tython a hell of a lot of a better fight than Thanaton gave Nox. Fought Sajar for several days.
Boom.
Wrath - Defeated Sel Makor inhabiting the Emperor's Voice, defeated Baras, can resist the Dread Master's direct mental assault, was chosen as the Wrath to be above the Dark Council, stated to be among the Empire's greatest champions.
He didn't defeat Sel Makor by himself, defeating Baras doesn't make him superior to Thanaton, I don't recall how resisting the Dread Master's mental assault is applicable in combat, being labeled "above" the dark council is what the "Wrath" is supposed to be, and the last part? What about it?
Thor - Duh, dem TK feats bro. Also beat First Son + Vivicar.
Baras - Amped by Sel Makor, so powerful he dominated the Dark Council and was considered almost unstoppable. Gave the Wrath a tremendous fight.
irst Son - Vitiate's second in command, could conceal hundreds of Sith across the galaxy. Arguably more powerful than the Barsen'thor.
The first son wasn't Vitiate's second in command. Did you even play the game?
We leave out the Dread Masters for obvious reasons.
Scourge - Killed over a thousand opponents, said by Revan to have tremendous potential, enforced Vitiate's will over the Dark Council for 300 years, confident he could take Sajar, the HoT and an entire republic base solo.
Satele - Grandmaster, great TK, tutaminis, lightsaber and barrier feats.
Vivicar - Almost solo'd the Jedi Order, could permanently dominate minds, amped off of hundreds of Jedi Masters.
Well they're one-sentence summations, what do you expect?
Originally posted by psmith81992
He didn't defeat Sel Makor by himself, defeating Baras doesn't make him superior to Thanaton, I don't recall how resisting the Dread Master's mental assault is applicable in combat, being labeled "above" the dark council is what the "Wrath" is supposed to be, and the last part? What about it?
And he didn't fight a solo Sel Makor, since loads of corrupted Gormak are summoned to aid Sel Makor. Besides, none of the Wrath's companions are that great and I doubt Thanaton could have replicated the feat even if he had any of them with him to help.
Resisting the Masters is a great demonstration of power and Force Mastery, as the Dread Masters say themselves.
Yeah, so him being appointed to a position that's purpose is for him to be more powerful than the Dark Council and able to effectively police them in they're out of line is indicative of his power.
Being among the greatest Imperial champions would put him above Thanaton, surely. Since he's also one?
Originally posted by psmith81992
Wonderful! Thanaton has sick feats too!
Not on the same level. The Barsen'thor demonstrates incredible TK while weakened and barely off Tython. And she defeated an ancient Sith Lord who was drawing power from hundreds of Jedi Masters while even more heavily weakened.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Where was he amped by Sel Makor? Lol. Dominated the Dark Council? At what point? All he did was claim to be the Voice. Stop making things up.
Baras made a deal with Sel Makor for power when he visited Voss. Dominated the Council in that he almost became all powerful over them and they didn't dare directly defy him.
Originally posted by psmith81992
The first son wasn't Vitiate's second in command. Did you even play the game?
He basically was. He was second only to the Emperor in influence and command.
Originally posted by psmith81992
We leave out the Dread Masters for obvious reasons.
Yes, because they're obviously superior to him. I agree.
Originally posted by psmith81992
How does ANY of this put him above Thanaton?
How does anything Thanaton has done put him on par with Scourge? The man has a kill count and combat experience off the charts, his job was beating the shit out of the Dark Council, he was already very powerful in Revan and had barely scratched his potential, he was amped by Vitiate and other enhancements and he was supremely confident going up against 2 Dark Council level opponents at once.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Ditto for this one.
Her feats are just better than his.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Almost solo'd the jedi council? Alright I'll stop here, I think we get the point. Come back when you stop making things up.
Regardless, he was amping off of hundreds of Jedi Masters. When he was already a powerful Jedi possessed by an Ancient Sith spirit. He would have been more powerful than Thanaton.
Originally posted by Q99
Vitiate, Malgus, Baras, Nox, Emperor's Wrath, Jadus, Raptus and maybe the other Dread Masters... on the Sith side of things.
In TOR Encyclopedia, Darth Thanaton is the only individual besides Emperor Vitiate to be labeled as supremely powerful which should tell you something how BioWare have envisioned him.
The Sith Inquisitor story represents rivalry between supremely powerful masters of the dark side. It depicts what is at the APEX of Sith Inquisitor curriculum.
Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, I'm not saying Thanaton's mediocre. I'm saying you're not defining what you consider mediocre so for all I know your definition includes him.
Originally posted by Q99
None the less, his TK feat is very much on the large size.
Originally posted by Q99
You know I did bring up quite a few possible examples as well.
Wredd is decent, not a mook. Got it.
However, is Wredd a match for real giants of Sith Order? No.
Originally posted by Q99
I can't help but notice both of you are dancing around the questions I'm asking and hemming and hawing rather than saying what you actually *do* consider mediocre.I'm going to conclude that you don't actually have an answer or a consistent level you consider 'mediocre,' you'd just decided to peg it here this time... because.
You don't compare the likes of Wredd with Thanaton. Simple.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Vitiate yes. Malgus, maybe. Baras, doubtful. Nox, yes. Wrath, maybe. Jadus, maybe. Dread Masters are all debatable.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Eh, as people above have pointed out, Thanaton is legit powerful. Nox is too. I mean, by the beginning of Act II Nox is a pretty powerful Jedi Master level by feats and has defeated Jedi and Sith Masters who are noted as powerful. And Thanaton one-shot her despite Nox reinforcing her power with that of two Sith spirits. That's something Dooku level in my opinion. He can handle even strong Jedi Masters easily. And he can handle people even greater than that, also easily.But evidently so can Thanaton.
Darth Thanaton have knowledge and command of techniques that Count Dooku do not. Darth Nox was already very powerful at the time of getting one-shotted by Darth Thanaton in a battle. I don't believe Count Dooku can one-shot a powerful Force-user like that.
In addition, Darth Thanaton would not be lacking in telekinetic matters either, he is noted to have "insurmountable strength" and it means something.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you are trying to reconcile TOR era ground realities with PT era ground realities, you will approach misleading conclusions just like you did.Darth Thanaton have knowledge and command of techniques that Count Dooku do not. Darth Nox was already very powerful at the time of getting one-shotted by Darth Thanaton in a battle. I don't believe Count Dooku can one-shot a powerful Force-user like that.
In addition, Darth Thanaton would not be lacking in telekinetic matters either, he is noted to have "insurmountable strength" and it means something.
Dooku has one-shot powerful Force users, bro. He is supremely powerful, just like Thanaton.