Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire represents the epitome of progress made in the context of what I label as Sith ideals.
Progress in understanding of the Dark Side of the Force? Check
Progress in Sith alchemy? Check
Progress in Sith sorcery? Check
Greatest number of quality Sith to exist in an era? Check
Progress in training systems? Check
Progress in various networks and political systems? Check
Progress in military capability? Check
Progress in preparedness level of civilization? Check
Progress had been made in virtually everything.
Dark Council represented command and control system of 12 different systems and responsibilities within the Empire, such was the complexity of the Empire. Each Dark Council member had legions under his command that would run an entire system of the Empire.
Dark Council was also the center point of greatest politics taking place within the Empire.
Reconstituted ancient Sith Empire is also the first Sith galactic superpower created.
Originally posted by Sinious
👆This is what I was referring to earlier.
They would be the full package if they had dominated the galaxy for at least a while. The sack of coruscant is as far as they went and after that they have managed to secure the half of the galaxy which is still good but it should've been better.
However, RASE invaded a well-prepared Republic which had greatest resources at its disposal in the galaxy. RASE's performance in the war was entirely an outcome of the quality of its military capability.
Unfortunately it is in the nature of Sith to compete for supremacy and forge rivalry for personal gains and this led to the downfall of RASE. When several super-strong Sith Lords co-exist at a time, it can be a disaster waiting to happen.
The Sith state that matches most of these criteria is undoubtedly the Sith empire under Darth Krayt, if only for the fact that it comes the closest to matching the unparalleled success of the Galactic Empire and the Sith were legion.
Ragnos' Empire probably had more powerhouses and faced no opposition.
Vitiate's Empire had the most powerhouses but faced a reconstructed Republic.
Based on these criteria, though, it's pretty hard to make the case for Viti's empire, let alone Ragnos's. Krayt's had the most success and military power next to the Galactic Empire, not to mention legions of trained Sith. I'd give the nod to Palpatine but the extremely limited number of Sith makes it hard for me to confer the title to him based on Sinious's terms.
Originally posted by Q99
They spent all their points and didn't have enough left for 'not fall into infighting' and 'winning' 🙂
Their Emperor's absence is a big reason for their failures.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Reconstituted Ancient Sith Empire (RASE) undoubtedly had the capability to rule the galaxy if it had the chance.However, RASE invaded a well-prepared Republic which had greatest resources at its disposal in the galaxy. RASE's performance in the war was entirely an outcome of the quality of its military capability.
Unfortunately it is in the nature of Sith to compete for supremacy and forge rivalry for personal gains and this led to the downfall of RASE. When several super-strong Sith Lords co-exist at a time, it can be a disaster waiting to happen.
Oh they had the capability for sure but they couldn't get there. I think the absence of their leader is the biggest cause of this. He didn't just avoid going to wars to lead, he basically isolated himself completely. I can't imagine what would happen if Vitiate led his armies into battle like Revan or Naga Sadow did. The results would be much better for the sith.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Based on these criteria, though, it's pretty hard to make the case for Viti's empire, let alone Ragnos's. Krayt's had the most success and military power next to the Galactic Empire, not to mention legions of trained Sith. I'd give the nod to Palpatine but the extremely limited number of Sith makes it hard for me to confer the title to him based on Sinious's terms.
You can add other criteria that make sense and are related. My point in making this thread is trying to understand in which era did the people of sith experience its prime. Those areas of success are jus there to give an idea on how to compare them. So its not that I choose to lower Sidious' achievements; its because he did it by himself and anything coming out of Banith sith cannot be the golden age for the sith due to its quantity of sith.
About Krayt, it is true that they had advanced tech but thats due to their era being after than all. Their leader and top sith aren't even in the top 10 sith imo. They didn't have a sophisticated imperial system like Vitiate or Sidious did. They had legions of sith but were there thousands of them? Also the quality of a sith in Vitiate's era is probably higher than Krayt's.
Originally posted by Sinious
You can add other criteria that make sense and are related. My point in making this thread is trying to understand in which era did the people of sith experience its prime. Those areas of success are jus there to give an idea on how to compare them. So its not that I choose to lower Sidious' achievements; its because he did it by himself and anything coming out of Banith sith cannot be the golden age for the sith due to its quantity of sith.
No, I understand. I, too, look to Palpatine's success as more of Palpatine's supremacy than general Sith supremacy.
Originally posted by Sinious
About Krayt, it is true that they had advanced tech but thats due to their era being after than all. Their leader and top sith aren't even in the top 10 sith imo. They didn't have a sophisticated imperial system like Vitiate or Sidious did. They had legions of sith but were there thousands of them? Also the quality of a sith in Vitiate's era is probably higher than Krayt's.
I disagree. The reborn Krayt is undoubtedly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever and Wyyrlok's performance against him suggests that he's not too far behind. Beyond that, Krayt's Sith were as pervasively integrated into the mechanics of the secular government as was Viti's Sith. At the end of the day, comparing Krayt to Viti isn't favorable for the latter: Krayt ruled far more, was militarily supreme, and had legions of Sith at his beck and call as did Vitiate.
disagree. The reborn Krayt is undoubtedly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever and Wyyrlok's performance against him suggests that he's not too far behind. Beyond that, Krayt's Sith were as pervasively integrated into the mechanics of the secular government as was Viti's Sith. At the end of the day, comparing Krayt to Viti isn't favorable for the latter: Krayt ruled far more, was militarily supreme, and had legions of Sith at his beck and call as did Vitiate.
Krayt's sith were comparatively weaker than Vitiate's sith.
Originally posted by Sinious
It doesn't matter after a certain point. It matters when there are thousands of sith on one hand and just 2 on the other.
Why?
Unlike the Jedi, the Sith care little about their numbers. In the end, it’s all about power. And with two Sith they managed to control the galaxy more effectively then ever before or after.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
No, I understand. I, too, look to Palpatine's success as more of Palpatine's supremacy than general Sith supremacy.
Exactly.
I disagree. The reborn Krayt is undoubtedly one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever and Wyyrlok's performance against him suggests that he's not too far behind. Beyond that, Krayt's Sith were as pervasively integrated into the mechanics of the secular government as was Viti's Sith. At the end of the day, comparing Krayt to Viti isn't favorable for the latter: Krayt ruled far more, was militarily supreme, and had legions of Sith at his beck and call as did Vitiate.
What makes me think other wise most is the dark council. Like Legend said, having 12 different major ministries and having a dark lord in charge of each one is pretty impressive.
When Revan discovers Dromund Kaas, he realizes how advanced and powerful the sith empire is. Compared to the sith in the known galaxy, they were far more superior in every aspect.
Well for now it is either Krayt's Empire or Vitiate's Empire then.
Originally posted by ares834
Why?Unlike the Jedi, the Sith care little about their numbers. In the end, it’s all about power. And with two Sith they managed to control the galaxy more effectively then ever before or after.
Well not really. Bane enforced his ideals into sith and it went on like that for a millennia. I'm not saying what he did was a mistake but it inevitably derogated the sith in a way. Think of as the golden era of the sith nation/culture.
I think the ultimate victory of sith is achieved in Palpatine's era but the sith achieved this with a grand sacrifice so I don't think that should be called the sith golden era.
Originally posted by Sinious
Oh they had the capability for sure but they couldn't get there. I think the absence of their leader is the biggest cause of this. He didn't just avoid going to wars to lead, he basically isolated himself completely. I can't imagine what would happen if Vitiate led his armies into battle like Revan or Naga Sadow did. The results would be much better for the sith.
Yes, absence of Emperor Vitiate resulted in division among the ranks of RASE unfortunately due to other super-strong Sith Lords intending to become Emperors. Emperor Vitiate's isolation was not an issue, his absence during the Cold War became an issue.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, I don't count that against them.Yes, absence of Emperor Vitiate resulted in division among the ranks of RASE unfortunately due to other super-strong Sith Lords intending to become Emperors.
Yes, this fact is actually in favor of Vitiate's empire.
Emperor Vitiate's isolation was not an issue, his absence during the Cold War became an issue.
True. Perhaps being too obsessed with galaxy consuming got the best of him and caused him to make bad decisions.
Originally posted by psmith81992
Except Vitiate built his own from scratch. Krayt pretty much latched on to the Imperial Remnant. One is more impressive than the other.
👆
Originally posted by psmith81992
Except Vitiate built his own from scratch. Krayt pretty much latched on to the Imperial Remnant. One is more impressive than the other.
Emperor Vitiate seems to have created highest quality Sith Empire, first known Sith led galactic superpower as well. Sith progressed in all aspects under his leadership.
Darth Sidious took over the Republic and converted it to the Empire. Darth Krayt also have similar achievement.