Originally posted by Emperor NewGuy
I don't take issue with the idea that Revan's Empire was massive and galaxy-threatining; only that it's on par with Palpatine's. I don't see how I misinterpret the quote.
It's the only reasonable interpretation of that quote unless you subscribe to Ant's ridiculous interpretation that Revan's empire is of comparable power.
Vitiate's Empire utterly surpassed Revan's in terms of being an actual Sith Empire though. Revan's was entirely made up of Dark Jedi turned from the Jedi. I doubt there were many true masters of the darkside in it. Vitiate's Empire was the True Sith Empire with the greatest level of and largest numbers of Sith and the highest level of overall darkside mastery in the mythos. In battle prowess and darkside teachings they'd evolved completely beyond what had been seen in the past, refining their skills in their 1000 year exile from what was already the "Golden Age of the Sith".
Originally posted by The_Tempest
It's the only reasonable interpretation of that quote unless you subscribe to Ant's ridiculous interpretation that Revan's empire is of comparable power.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
I could have sworn I saw another quote the other day from a different source also comparing Revan's Empire to Sidious', though I'm not exactly sure. Once I return home I'll go and look before I make any further claims of its existence, because I'm not sure.
Feel free. We know that the Galactic Empire is the largest and most powerful military regime in galactic history up until that point in time. Revan's empire cannot possibly contend with it in a fight.
Originally posted by Emperor NewGuy
The quote does claim that Revan's Empire was ''on par'' with Palpatine's, i.e ''of comparable power''. Attempting to reasonably interpret it differently would be to reach a lot, in my opinion. But that's why I called it stupid.
Which is why I think we can afford to be a little creative and interpret it to mean that it was on par with the Galactic Empire in its ability to threaten the galaxy, which is indeed its narrative purpose in the KotOR story. It doesn't necessarily mean it can fight the Galactic Empire on equal terms.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
If you want to give Revan the nod because he achieved that level of success in a fraction of the time that Viti had at his disposal, that's your prerogative and I may agree, but Viti's empire was indeed bigger and badder.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Vitiate's Empire utterly surpassed Revan's in terms of being an actual [b]Sith Empire though. Revan's was entirely made up of Dark Jedi turned from the Jedi. I doubt there were many true masters of the darkside in it. Vitiate's Empire was the True Sith Empire with the greatest level of and largest numbers of Sith and the highest level of overall darkside mastery in the mythos. In battle prowess and darkside teachings they'd evolved completely beyond what had been seen in the past, refining their skills in their 1000 year exile from what was already the "Golden Age of the Sith". [/B]
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I honestly cannot agree more.
Revan's empire's base is indirectly linked to the republic. It wasn't a real sith empire and it didn't last long. Revan and his movement was indeed a great threat to the galaxy and the republic but that doesnt put his empire on par with Vitiate's empire or Galactic Empire.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah. And they were over reliant on the Jedi to fight. Revan crippling the Order crippled the Republic.Thanks. I was feeling nostalgic for this old set.
Good point.
Its good that you have the male thing in gender. I honestly can't blame Ant that much for thinking you were a girl and having cyber feelings for you. I do blame him though, for continuing this after he found out you were a dude.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Also, Swtore asserts that the Republic military in times before TOR was shitty, so Revan overwhelming them isn't that special.
Well, like previous posters said, Revan took most of the Fleet, and Annihilated the other Half that were all Loyal to Meetra by way of the MSG.
Him basically winning the war was hardly impressive. In fact, the mere fact that they were still very nervous about attacking the core is proof that their empire wasn't as strong as people seem to believe.
Darth Bane established the rule of two, it was a pragmatic and logical end to the incessant in fighting and maneuvering of sith lords from all previous eras that saw it succumb time and again to its own infighting. the Strength and order in the republic and the strength of the Jedi order was always aided by sith insular chaos and paranoia. Bane did begin this but it was Sideous who through cunning and guile not only through political maneuvering and military slight of hand caused chaos in the Jedi order, and usurped the republic as its chancellor, it was sideous that came the closest to defeating the Jedi order permanently, but it was always the Jedi who would prevail.
Bane believed and I agree that the sith of old were sorcerers developing amulets and artifacts to amp their ability, while he instead worked on his own inner power relying on his ability to manipulate the force, I agree vitiate through sorcery became powerful was powerful before but not enough so to look within and not outside of his own ability. He was ultimately a coward. I have more respect for dark helmet than vitiate who was neither intriguing or insightful. Sorry vitiate was powerful due to outside sorcery that pulled the power of fellow sith Lords for him to ascend to the level he did by a permanent augmentation. Want to say Exar kun , or even Tulak Horde or Marko Ragnos again they all depended on sith sorcery way too much rather than dark side discipline. I like Bane I like Sideous, as per Revan story was written it would not be he who would destroy vitiate but the Hero of Tython. Vitiates a punk.
Originally posted by Salthasha
Darth Bane established the rule of two, it was a pragmatic and logical end to the incessant in fighting and maneuvering of sith lords from all previous eras that saw it succumb time and again to its own infighting. the Strength and order in the republic and the strength of the Jedi order was always aided by sith insular chaos and paranoia. Bane did begin this but it was Sideous who through cunning and guile not only through political maneuvering and military slight of hand caused chaos in the Jedi order, and usurped the republic as its chancellor, it was sideous that came the closest to defeating the Jedi order permanently, but it was always the Jedi who would prevail.
Originally posted by Salthasha
Bane believed and I agree that the sith of old were sorcerers developing amulets and artifacts to amp their ability, while he instead worked on his own inner power relying on his ability to manipulate the force, I agree vitiate through sorcery became powerful was powerful before but not enough so to look within and not outside of his own ability. He was ultimately a coward. I have more respect for dark helmet than vitiate who was neither intriguing or insightful. Sorry vitiate was powerful due to outside sorcery that pulled the power of fellow sith Lords for him to ascend to the level he did by a permanent augmentation. Want to say Exar kun , or even Tulak Horde or Marko Ragnos again they all depended on sith sorcery way too much rather than dark side discipline. I like Bane I like Sideous, as per Revan story was written it would not be he who would destroy vitiate but the Hero of Tython. Vitiates a punk.
So ancient Sith's methods don't suit your morality. I'm still trying to understand how this is related to the topic.