Originally posted by Sinious
I first met the character Sidious when I wasn't even 10. All my friends hated the ugly bad guy and was happy when Vader finally did the "right' thing where I was freaking pissed when he died. Ive hated everything about PT yet I've watched ROTS for countless times only because of that character. Palpatine wasn't just my favorite character in SW, he was my fave amongst all fictional movies/books I've read.
😂
Originally posted by Sinious
The reason I debate about Vitiate more is because there is no need to defend Palpatine here. Every 1on1 sith versus thread will automatically end up with him being declared the victor. Vitiate on the other hand is being extremely underrated here. If Sidious was underrated also, I would give the same attention to him as well. Another reason is, I don't like post ROTJ and the comic book material of that era so I have limited info about its details. Ive gathered the info about Sidious' parts but thats it and even then its kind of limiting my debating about DE Sidious.
Well, I can't help that. But yes Sidious would stomp Vitiate. He's a skilled combatant, not just extremely powerful. If it came down to facing an opponent of equal power, Sidious has his fighting skills to fall on, whereas Vitiate would have his ass to fall on.
Originally posted by Sinious
Are you blind or stupid? Even in my "Vitiate might be the most powerful sith thread", I said that DE Sidious would take him in a 1on1 battle. I rank Sidious higher than Vitiate and I have stated this a few times. I also rank Sidious higher than Bane. Bane is at the edge of my top 5 sith list where Sidious is no.1.
You: "Vitiate ruled the dark council; Sidious would be annihilated by them in the first century"
You don't remember stating something along those lines?
You're the blind and the stupid one for not even remembering the purpose of your own thread. Vitiate isn't the most powerful sith in history. There's no mights or maybes.
Originally posted by Sinious
You exaggerate PT era characters when they are to face TOR era characters. You probably agree with Carthage about Dooku > Vitiate
Considering that I believe Dooku and Revan to be about equals, with Dooku being a bit above, I don't believe Vitiate would stomp Dooku. He struggled to kill Revan on a dark side nexus. On Neutral ground, Revan would be a far greater threat to Vitiate. Moreso than Dooku would be to Sidious.
However, no, I don't believe Dooku to be above Vitiate.
Originally posted by Sinious
If you present arguments like this more often, people including me will respect your opinions more.
I couldn't care less who respects my opinion. If you can't counter my arguments, then you just can't. lol
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
You stated Ventress could be an equal/superior to Revan.
No, I said she had comparable TK feats.
That whole thing with Ventress was because Neph was lowballing Dooku, so I started doing the same to the characters he argues for. But I actually believe Revan to be on par with Dooku. I'm generally pretty reasonable, and I don't dismiss accolades or try to diminish feats, unless the lowballing from the other side gets out of hand. Even with Vitiate, I place him pretty high up there, even though I don't find his actual showings to be overwhelmingly impressive, not for all the hype he receives anyway.
Originally posted by DarthAnt66
And that is why a large bulk of members don't take you seriously.
I don't care about the opinions of TOR wankers, so I don't care if they take me seriously. Either you can counter my claims or be mad.
@Emperor, no, what made you believe that I thought Dooku would ragdoll Vitiate?
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I never said I thought you believed that. It's just good to see that you don't agree with Carthage's more absurd statements after complimenting him a few times as a debater.
I've stated that Carthage was unreasonable, but I can't force him to take a bunch of implications seriously. After all, he goes strictly by feats.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I never said I thought you believed that. It's just good to see that you don't agree with Carthage's more absurd statements after complimenting him a few times as a debater.
Need I pull up the list from SWF where you put Bane above Kun, Malgus, Caedus, and Tenebrous? Just because he's your favorite character and for no other reason? The reason I put Dooku above Vitiate is because he has superior feats without any prep or additional factors. You have never bothered to refute that claim, and instead complain about others and call them "biased" simply because they go by what actually occurred by order of feats. Sinious, yourself, and Neph routinely go by theoretical tangents as opposed to feats, and what if statements as if they mean something.
There is no reason to believe Vitiate could defeat Dooku on neutral ground. Again you are more then welcome to try to prove me wrong
I have become a better debater since *shudders* SWF.
You don't go by actual logic or think for yourself Carthage, you just parrot back whatever you here from the admins on SWF, exaggerate it to Dooku ragdolling Vitiate, Bane Revan and Vitiate being weak, and stuff like that. Then you choose to word it in the way that'll piss people off the most. Your wording is provocative and your topics equally so. You are a troll Carthage.
And once again, isn't "theoretical stuff" entirely what these versus match-ups are? Isn't that a huge part of debating? Unless it's explicitly stated in Canon, isn't Dooku>Vitiate a theoretical tangent? Without theoretical tangents, you can't come to a conclusion in a debate such as this, and if you could purely on explicitly stated stuff, then the debate is not worth having.
You can insult me, Ant, Fated, Neph, and Sinious all you want, but even the others who hold the PT era in the high esteem you do have claimed you to be unreasonable, namely Sidious66 and Newguy1. Insult us all you want, but you will never be as good of a debater as us or the majority of the others here.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
😂
Well, like it or not it is the truth. I love both Sidious and Vitiate and enjoy their stories without picking one side and hating the other. It isn't as terrible as you think.
You: "Vitiate ruled the dark council; Sidious would be annihilated by them in the first century"You don't remember stating something along those lines?
You're the blind and the stupid one for not even remembering the purpose of your own thread. Vitiate isn't the most powerful sith in history. There's no mights or maybes.
Ive counted many arguments like this as I was trying to point out certain parts of Vitiate's life that are more impressive to Palpatine's life.
The thread's purpose was to show that there is a possibility but not combat wise. I meant to say that his powers of the force might be superior but even now I won't claim that before I see more evidence from Vitiate especially combat wise. I made that thread to provide different perspectives on this matter. You should be more comfortable while listening to people that don't think like you do.
Vitaite's story is unknown to us and there is definitely mights and maybes until we find out more but again, for now I place Sidious above him.
Considering that I believe Dooku and Revan to be about equals, with Dooku being a bit above, I don't believe Vitiate would stomp Dooku. He struggled to kill Revan on a dark side nexus. On Neutral ground, Revan would be a far greater threat to Vitiate. Moreso than Dooku would be to Sidious.However, no, I don't believe Dooku to be above Vitiate.
I dont agree with your logic. Or should I say your lack of logic cause everything you said above is biased and stupid.
I couldn't care less who respects my opinion. If you can't counter my arguments, then you just can't. lol
Actually, it has been countered many times by several people, you like your friend Carthage chose to ignore it.
This is not a thread where I will argue about my opinions on Vitiate or Sidious. If you have anything to say related to the topic, do so. If not, stop posting your none sense here.
Originally posted by carthage
Sinious, yourself, and Neph routinely go by theoretical tangents as opposed to feats, and what if statements as if they mean something.There is no reason to believe Vitiate could defeat Dooku on neutral ground. Again you are more then welcome to try to prove me wrong
I have stopped trying to make you understand these things some time ago. In these versus debates, common sense is an important factor. It is something you ignore.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You are a troll Carthage.And once again, isn't "theoretical stuff" entirely what these versus match-ups are? Isn't that a huge part of debating? Unless it's explicitly stated in Canon, isn't Dooku>Vitiate a theoretical tangent? Without theoretical tangents, you can't come to a conclusion in a debate such as this, and if you could purely on explicitly stated stuff, then the debate is not worth having.
You can insult me, Ant, Fated, Neph, and Sinious all you want, but even the others who hold the PT era in the high esteem you do have claimed you to be unreasonable, namely Sidious66 and Newguy1. Insult us all you want, but you will never be as good of a debater as us or the majority of the others here.
👆
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I have become a better debater since *shudders* SWF.You don't go by actual logic or think for yourself Carthage, you just parrot back whatever you here from the admins on SWF, exaggerate it to Dooku ragdolling Vitiate, Bane Revan and Vitiate being weak, and stuff like that. Then you choose to word it in the way that'll piss people off the most. Your wording is provocative and your topics equally so. You are a troll Carthage.
And once again, isn't "theoretical stuff" entirely what these versus match-ups are? Isn't that a huge part of debating? Unless it's explicitly stated in Canon, isn't Dooku>Vitiate a theoretical tangent? Without theoretical tangents, you can't come to a conclusion in a debate such as this, and if you could purely on explicitly stated stuff, then the debate is not worth having.
You can insult me, Ant, Fated, Neph, and Sinious all you want, but even the others who hold the PT era in the high esteem you do have claimed you to be unreasonable, namely Sidious66 and Newguy1. Insult us all you want, but you will never be as good of a debater as us or the majority of the others here.
Carthage may be unreasonable but he isn't stupid. I don't think you actually believe he is stupid either.
BTW, what makes you believe that Vitiate would beat Dooku? Just curious.
So basically you're going to keep repeating the same nonsense due to your lack of evidence and put your fingers in your ears because you can't rebut anything I bring up. 👆
Classic Sinious posting lol, i,e resorting to appeals to ignorance and calling people trolls.
You don't go by actual logic or think for yourself Carthage, you just parrot back whatever you here from the admins on SWF, exaggerate it to Dooku ragdolling Vitiate, Bane Revan and Vitiate being weak, and stuff like that. Then you choose to word it in the way that'll piss people off the most. Your wording is provocative and your topics equally so. You are a troll Carthage.
Blah, blah, blah. I'm not the one that relies on non-cannon calculations and what if statements. For all of those paragraphs you posted all you had to do was say you were incapable of relying on feats to prove the validity of your posts or even reasonable arguments based on a characters limited amount of showings.
And once again, isn't "theoretical stuff" entirely what these versus match-ups are? Isn't that a huge part of debating? Unless it's explicitly stated in Canon, isn't Dooku>Vitiate a theoretical tangent? Without theoretical tangents, you can't come to a conclusion in a debate such as this, and if you could purely on explicitly stated stuff, then the debate is not worth having.
Basing theoretical tangents without the feats to back them up is nonsense which is the type of posting you and Neph are renowned for. At least Ant can back up his posts with the feats he meticulously digs up, all you do is pre suppose and rely on stupid assertions like you did when you try to pass off that hilarious rain feat for Bane. I have nothing against educated opinions for characters, so long as they have feats that ground them in some type of coherence.
You can insult me, Ant, Fated, Neph, and Sinious all you want, but even the others who hold the PT era in the high esteem you do have claimed you to be unreasonable, namely Sidious66 and Newguy1. Insult us all you want, but you will never be as good of a debater as us or the majority of the others here.
I could give two shits what Sidious or Newguy think of my posting style, while I respect their opinions and they're infinitely superior debaters to the likes of you TOR/EU fans, I wont lose sleep over what they think of me.
Insult us all you want, but you will never be as good of a debater as us or the majority of the others here
Considering your track record here and on SWF, you're hardly in the position to rank other posters in terms of debating.
You fail to understand anything Carthage. These "theoretical tangents" you speak of are backed up by the text. Bane's rainstorm feat was impossible for him when he had already casually deflected blasterfire from six opponents, yet you tried to claim Malgus and Vader's feats of deflecting blasterfire from three shooters to somehow be far superior to this. That tangent is easily and heavily backed up and supported by the text, while you have made several statements about Bane Revan and Vitiate that directly contradict the text.
You accuse me of completely ignoring your points?!! I answer all of your points with logic, and you pretty much respond with "nope" and repeat the same bullshit you started with. And how is saying "blah blah blah" not sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring my points?
You completely and utterly fail to grasp my point about the necessity of theoretical tangents and calculations and call bullshit on that. Any thing anyone says in a debate that is not explicitly stated is theoretical. Hell by that token, "Yoda>Jar Jar" is bullshit because it is not explicitly stated anywhere. Debates require theoreticals to determine an outcome that is not explicitly stated, and the fact that you cannot grasp a concept so simple astounds me.
What the **** do you mean my track record?!! I cannot think of a single person on here that is willing to claim that you are not unreasonable. As far as track records go, I have debated just fine with others without a problem, while just about everyone knows you are unreasonable, and you have had several threads closed and even been temporarily been banned by a mod from outside this forum who only came here because of the overwhelming number of people complaining about you.
You have no credibility or good reputation here, so don't even act like you can challenge me on that. You deliberately word things and create topics to provoke people, and you have admitted to trolling and doing things to piss people off numerous times. I've said this before, I'm saying it now, I will continue to say it, and I will defend it with every last bone in my body. You Carthage are a troll.
@ Carthage
What you're doing here is really tricky, kid. You base your arguments on feats, true but when we are to compare 2 characters from different eras where one has comic books, movies and a lot of quotes about him and the other one is less popular, the lack of info does not make that character less powerful. Darth Jadus is a perfect example for this. He never defeated another powerful force user in swtor but his being second to emperor quote and force feats help us understand his capabilities and rank him higher than some of the powerful PT characters.
The entire purpose of this forum is to do this and by ignoring that, you think you sound like a very scientific and clever person with strict debating rules yet you really don't.
So like I said before little one, you have admitted being a troll and I don't waste time with trolls. Now stop polluting my thread.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You fail to understand anything Carthage. These "theoretical tangents" you speak of are backed up by the text. Bane's rainstorm feat was impossible for him when he had already casually deflected blasterfire from six opponents, yet you tried to claim Malgus and Vader's feats of deflecting blasterfire from three shooters to somehow be far superior to this. That tangent is easily and heavily backed up and supported by the text, while you have made several statements about Bane Revan and Vitiate that directly contradict the text.You accuse me of completely ignoring your points?!! I answer all of your points with logic, and you pretty much respond with "nope" and repeat the same bullshit you started with. And how is saying "blah blah blah" not sticking your fingers in your ears and ignoring my points?
You completely and utterly fail to grasp my point about the necessity of theoretical tangents and calculations and call bullshit on that. Any thing anyone says in a debate that is not explicitly stated is theoretical. Hell by that token, "Yoda>Jar Jar" is bullshit because it is not explicitly stated anywhere. Debates require theoreticals to determine an outcome that is not explicitly stated, and the fact that you cannot grasp a concept so simple astounds me.
What the **** do you mean [b]my
track record?!! I cannot think of a single person on here that is willing to claim that you are not unreasonable. As far as track records go, I have debated just fine with others without a problem, while just about everyone knows you are unreasonable, and you have had several threads closed and even been temporarily been banned by a mod from outside this forum who only came here because of the overwhelming number of people complaining about you.You have no credibility or good reputation here, so don't even act like you can challenge me on that. You deliberately word things and create topics to provoke people, and you have admitted to trolling and doing things to piss people off numerous times. I've said this before, I'm saying it now, I will continue to say it, and I will defend it with every last bone in my body. You Carthage are a troll. [/B]
Emperor,
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
what makes you believe that Vitiate would beat Dooku? Just curious.
You fail to understand anything Carthage. These "theoretical tangents" you speak of are backed up by the text. Bane's rainstorm feat was impossible for him when he had already casually deflected blasterfire from six opponentsBane's own blaster feat was more impressive as he had to rely on precog and saber movements for those faster moving projectiles from six shooters. That's Bane's own saber feat beating a feat that is less impressive due to rain being slower. Again try some semblance of logic with your posts. And no its not so what if Bane thought it was impossible, its not that great of a feat compared to the one you listed. Malgus, Vader, Maul, Kun, Krayt and all the other characters that you constantly say Bane is stronger than have superior feats across the board to your hallowed character. Sorry that's just how it is
You completely and utterly fail to grasp my point about the necessity of theoretical tangents and calculations and call bullshit on that. Any thing anyone says in a debate that is not explicitly stated is theoretical. Hell by that token, "Yoda>Jar Jar" is bullshit because it is not explicitly stated anywhere. Debates require theoreticals to determine an outcome that is not explicitly stated, and the fact that you cannot grasp a concept so simple astounds me.You must really suck at reading posts, I never said that I was against theoretical posts. If they're theoretical posts supported by text then they're completely valid like Bane's rain feat is, the only thing that isn't supported is your pathetic attempt at trying to prove its superior with non-cannon calculations and the fact you routinely deny that blaster bolts are faster, and that laboring to deflect them is more impressive than blocking water drops.
What the **** do you mean my track record?!! I cannot think of a single person on here that is willing to claim that you are not unreasonable. As far as track records go, I have debated just fine with others without a problem, while just about everyone knows you are unreasonable, and you have had several threads closed and even been temporarily been banned by a mod from outside this forum who only came here because of the overwhelming number of people complaining about you.
What does this have to do with the fact I use feats solely for my arguments? Its not my fault you're butthurt and I made a few spite threads that got me justly banned. So what? You won't let the past be the past, and are simply mad that I'm still around. I really don't care what other posters think of me, try to understand. Also getting banned and being disliked by posters says zero about the content of my posts during debates. Nice try though
You have no credibility or good reputation here, so don't even act like you can challenge me on that. You deliberately word things and create topics to provoke people, and you have admitted to trolling and doing things to piss people off numerous times. I've said this before, I'm saying it now, I will continue to say it, and I will defend it with every last bone in my body. You Carthage are a troll.
Your concession is accepted for the 5th time now