Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You really need to buy this book to understand why I rate the reconstituted ancient Sith so highly: http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-The-Republic-Encyclopedia/dp/0756698391
I have to agree with this. The SWTOR Encyclopedia is an amazing book and I highly recommend it.
Why would we buy that book when LeGenD's has memorized and pirated much of it for us by spamming every quote with the slightest bit of praise involved?
And while I've read some bits of it before, none of it suggests that the Ancient Sith were any better than the Sith of later eras in technology or ability. And even if it did, this debate is about two individuals, not organizations.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
And even if it did, this debate is about two individuals, not organizations.
Indeed.
If you have one order with an average of X, and another with an average of X+1, then an individual higher on the bell curve of X, let's say +5.2, will still beat not only average people on the X+1 curve, but people +4 above that average. So someone can be a significant stand-out on an average-stronger order, and still lose to someone of the second order.
Now, I don't think the TOR Empire had X+1 to begin with compared to other orders known for collecting lots of force knowledge, I think it simply has a larger bell and thus more people on the far ends of the bell (i.e. I think they're both X average, but with more people, the TOR has more +4s and +5s).
Originally posted by chilled monkey
I have to agree with this. The SWTOR Encyclopedia is an amazing book and I highly recommend it.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why would we buy that book when LeGenD's has memorized and pirated much of it for us by spamming every quote with the slightest bit of praise involved?And while I've read some bits of it before, none of it suggests that the Ancient Sith were any better than the Sith of later eras in technology or ability. And even if it did, this debate is about two individuals, not organizations.
This book presents a single cohesive picture of the ground realities of the lore and it must be read fully to properly grasp these ground realities. Reading some bits of it will do you no good.
Ground realities of reconstituted ancient Sith Empire are noticeably different from that of Legacy era Sith Empire by the way.
Nonetheless, buy this book if you are interested in ancient era lore. Highly recommended.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDThis book contains so much information that it is not possible for me to reveal much of the material in writing. I only reveal some bits that I feel are important to be highlighted in debates.
This book presents a single cohesive picture of the ground realities of the lore and it must be read fully to properly grasp these ground realities. Reading some bits of it will do you no good.
Ground realities of reconstituted ancient Sith Empire are noticeably different from that of Legacy era Sith Empire by the way.
The grounded realities, once again, is the One Sith highly study the knowledge and even culture of prior sith orders and empires, and are trained by Krayt for the purpose of controlling the galaxy and facing the Jedi in direct combat.
Sidious likes to keep his people under-trained, aside from the formal apprentice. The Brotherhood of Darkness didn't have access to the knowledge of many sith orders. The One Sith have neither of these problems, it has access to great force knowledge and uses it because it wants it's people strong enough to do the job.
Heck, shall I also point out that the One Sith pioneered force-based technology, something that's barely been touched on since the Ratakans?
The cultures of the TOR Sith and Legacy are somewhat different, but they do both value strength as a way to advancement, and actually are more similar to each other than a number of other orders. Both have an Emperor who's desires ultimate overrule all other factions, unlike the Old Sith Empire and New Sith Wars, where there were numerous sith lords aside from the top who had a great say in things. Beneath this emperor, there were powerful Sith who would conduct things in said emperor's absence and handle much day to day stuff. Beneath them, there'd be both other powerful lords and commanders who try and advance through success, and lesser sith beneath them who try to gain such ranks. In those matters, they are not too different. It's more acceptable in TOR to kill your boss or rival... but even then, it's limited by the higher ups so as to not disrupt things, and internal rivals for power do exist in the One Sith as well.
Notably, the One Sith also *don't* have the policy of people being ranked highly purely on politics. There's no Vowrawn equivalent, because skill at internal politics would be of little use to Krayt/the order as a whole.
So politically/internal structure, the One Sith, again, value strength, much like the TOR Empire does, even if they do have some differences.
Originally posted by Q99
What's your reasoning?
Yes, Satele Shan was a well-trained Jed Knight as of Return.
Not saying that this confrontation will be easy but it is not a stretch to assume that Vindican can defeat Talon. Darach gained advantaged after acquiring Shan's weapon and had to perform incredible maneuvers to outduel Vindican. Darach's dueling ability is evidently superior to that of Talon.
Darach >> Talon
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That he was able to go toe-to-toe with Darach for a respectable duration and utterly outclassed a well-trained Jedi Knight?
I know your reasoning, I'm more curious as to the newbie's.
And Talon beat both Sazen and Vao at once on an occasion, which trumps that. She also killed Princess Fel's well-trained master and bodyguard.
Not saying that this confrontation will be easy but it is not a stretch to assume that Vindican can defeat Talon.
Mind you, it's even less of a stretch to assume Talon would, given her better force showings.
Darach gained advantaged after acquiring Shan's weapon and had to perform incredible maneuvers to outduel Vindican. Darach's dueling ability is evidently superior to that of Talon.
Pfft, Talon leaps around and does fancy maneuvers a lot too. That's how she stabbed Cade in the shoulder in one of their fights.
Even late-on she was able to evade Cade in sabers.
And there's still the force edge.
Originally posted by Q99
I know your reasoning, I'm more curious as to the newbie's.
Originally posted by Q99
And Talon beat both Sazen and Vao at once on an occasion, which trumps that. She also killed Princess Fel's well-trained master and bodyguard.
Originally posted by Q99
Mind you, it's even less of a stretch to assume Talon would, given her better force showings.
Give credit where due.
Originally posted by Q99
Pfft, Talon leaps around and does fancy maneuvers a lot too. That's how she stabbed Cade in the shoulder in one of their fights.
In addition, by incredible maneuvers, I am referring to masterful utilization of multiple blades by Darach to outduel his opponent, a demonstration of martial talent that have no equal in the mythos in visual demonstration so far and rarely duplicated in the lore, if ever.
Point is that it was not easy to outduel Vindican. Considerable effort, skill and full presence of mind was needed to pull this off. Do not underestimate him.
Again, give credit where due.
Originally posted by Q99
Even late-on she was able to evade Cade in sabers.
Originally posted by Q99
And there's still the force edge.
A similar discussion started recently and all attempts to lowball characters depicted in Return cinematic soundly flopped.: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f86/t596221.html
Originally posted by AncientPower
The lack of knowledge on Darth Talon displayed here is woeful.
Unfortunately, Q99 have history of concealing certain details that may reveal vulnerability of his favorite characters.