Vindican vs. Darth Talon

Started by carthage8 pages

Based on feats Talon has more to draw from, as we only have a small portion of Malgus's life to draw from. But yeah I agree that's obviously him at his most primal

I found this:

The Sith Inquisitor is a master of the dark side of the Force.

Source: http://www.swtor-spy.com/codex/sith-inquisitor/103/

My point have been officially validated. It is ironic that some so-called intellectuals of this forum try to pretend that they understand ground realities of the lore better then me without doing their own homework.

That means nothing I'm afraid.

That's like saying that Jedi Masters are extremely powerful, and then using it as a quote for Coleman Trebor.

Also, that's a codex entry describing Nox, but it's pretty ambiguous.

Originally posted by Q99
Note, while we're talking Malgus, this is NOT Darth Malgus, Emperor, or Darth Malgus, invader of Coruscant, or even, Darth Malgus, fighter of Satele Shan.

This is before any of that, when he's weaker than any of that. The Ven Zallow he killed would kick this early Malgus's butt. And this Malgus is stronger than Vindican.

So yea, they might not be stronger than the two of them combined, but they've certainly got better dueling feats than Vindican by a good margin.


You may not be aware but Darth Malgus became one of the greatest warriors of the Empire prior to confrontation with Kao Cen Darach. In-fact, his performance against Kao Cen Darach is verification of Darth Malgus's official hype as one of the greatest warriors of the Empire prior to this confrontation.

In addition, Satele Shan mentioned about her confrontations with Darth Malgus in a book and her revelations are that she have not come across an embodiment of the dark side like Darth Malgus, this statement represents her meeting with him (Darth Malgus) for the first time near Korriban on a space station.

Darth Malgus was already very powerful at the time of his confrontation with Kao Cen Darach, his understanding of the Force continued to improve later on.

---

Better dueling feats then Lord Vindican by good margin?

You people continue to vastly underrate dueling ability of Kao Cen Darach and Lord Vindican.

Lord Vindican demonstrated great speed, agility and dueling ability by going toe-to-toe against Kao Cen Darach for a while during their confrontation. Kao Cen Darach have demonstrated dueling ability of such a caliber which is not norm in the mythos, his ability to effectively use both double-bladed lightsaber along with normal lightsaber simultaneously is something to behold and truly amazing display of skill and technical prowess. It is with such skill that he managed to impale Lord Vindican.

Originally posted by Q99
Sure, but people say Malgus and think of him at his *best* ^^ Malgus grows several fold strong over time.

Heck, 'around 20 years old, just out from under their master, capable of TKing tons and fights masters,' is a description that fits Talon too. At this point, their feats are surprisingly similar.


Problem is that you do not have proper knowledge of baseline ground realities of either Lord Vindican and nor Darth Malgus, in-fact TOR era Jedi and Sith on the whole.

Baseline ground reality of Lord Vindican is that he is a master of the dark side by virtue of being a Sith Inquisitor.

Baseline ground reality of Darth Malgus, as of Return Trailer, is that he is already one of the greatest warriors of the Empire.

Also, when have Darth Talon tore through multi-tonned starship parts and cut down a Jedi Master as strong and capable as Kao Cen Darach with sheer raw power and dominating strikes?

You make absurd kind of comparisons, rich with hype for Legacy era characters.

Originally posted by Selenial
That means nothing I'm afraid.

That's like saying that Jedi Masters are extremely powerful, and then using it as a quote for Coleman Trebor.

Also, that's a codex entry describing Nox, but it's pretty ambiguous.


That codex entry does not describes Darth Nox exclusively, it is a general codex entry representing Sith Inquisitor class of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Originally posted by Selenial

Also, that's a codex entry describing Nox, but it's pretty ambiguous.

Yes. "The Sith Inquisitor" can very well be describing the Sith Inquisitor, not sith inquisitors in general. Even if the entry as a whole is about the class, there is the word choiceage of 'the'.

(Also, should I mention that OneSith have sith inquisitors as well...?)

SW Legend

My point have been officially validated. It is ironic that some so-called intellectuals of this forum try to pretend that they understand ground realities of the lore better then me without doing their own homework.

Feats > Lore, every time.

Though it's not like Legacy stuff is lacking in lore. A few bits from the Legacy campaign guide:

Talon, 'conditioned to be in top physical condition,' 'fast, agile, and has a diversity of skills that makes her one of the most deadly combatants around.' 'Formidable lightsaber duelist.'

Maladi, 'master of assassination,' 'extremely skilled in sith alchemy.'

Wyyrlok, 'one of the greatest scholars of Jedi, Sith, and other force-using tradition,' 'access to books, scrolls, and holocrons from across the eons,' 'By sheer force of will, a sith can achieve almost anything, and Darth Wyyrlok demonstrates this in everything he does.'

Azard's a 'master of the double bladed lightsaber' who closely studies and follows the history of Vader.

I mean, it's less focused on calling everyone 'powerful' than the TOR encyclopedia, even Cade's section is largely about personal goals and motivations, but it still occasionally lays it on thick. It's just the feats are a better guide on the whole.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Problem is that you do not have proper knowledge of baseline ground realities of either Lord Vindican and nor Darth Malgus, in-fact TOR era Jedi and Sith on the whole.

I'd throw the same thing back at you regarding Talon and the Legacy era.

Originally posted by Selenial
That's like saying that Jedi Masters are extremely powerful, and then using it as a quote for Coleman Trebor.

Jedi Masters aren't extremely powerful. On an Order basis they are decent at best. I suggest you buy the Swtor encyclopedia to get a better grasp on the ground realities of the mythos. Only individuals who have been explicitly stated to be powerful are, 100% tru fax.

/Legend.

Originally posted by Q99
Not according to the observations of most of the posters here. You seem to give too much weight to simply being from TOR Empire, even when an individual is several tiers down within it and/or hasn't shown significant feats.

Unfortunately, most of the posters do not have TOR Enyclopedia at their disposal.

I do not give too much weightage to the quality of TOR Empire just for the sake of it being a TOR Empire, I pay attention to content.

If necessary, I create separate threads to address some misconceptions concerning TOR era content. The thread about Harrower-class starship is a good example.

People need to focus on holistic picture of developments of the mythos instead of just X did this and why did that and sweeping generalizations.

Originally posted by Q99
In their sparring session, Claws of the Dragon story. Stabbed him in the shoulder.

I don't take sparring contests at face value.

Originally posted by Q99
Also, late in the comic she was able to do a short clash and then evade him when she was delivering Draco. Which, while not a win, still shows she's quite skilled as that's when Cade is near his peak. Her main problem tends to be when she goes on offense, if she's just on defense she can evade even his (Talon ironically would be very good as a highly defensive duelist, but tends to be more aggressive, and while her aggression works against many foes, it does not work against Cade).

You do not disclose the entire picture properly:-

- Wolf Sazen had lost an arm before his confrontation with Darth Talon, to Darth Nihl. It is obvious that his effectiveness was impaired by this loss.

- Cade Skywalker heavily injured Darth Talon by hurling some debris at her like a missile.

- When Darth Talon came back to confront the Jedi, she was accompanied by Darth Nihl and other Sith this time.

- When Cade Skywalker fought Darth Talon for the first time properly, he subdued her and was about to kill her but Darth Nihl saved her life by choking Cade Skywalker at the right moment.

- During the second major confrontation with Cade Skywalker, the Jedi Knight literally one-shotted Darth Talon.

---

Now tell me, what is so impressive about Darth Talon? She did kill some Jedi but what else? Floor-shattering feat? Not a decisive trump card for victory against a proper Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I'd throw the same thing back at you regarding Talon and the Legacy era.

See above

Are you going to concede to me in the Nox vs Dooku and Golden Age threads or what?

Originally posted by Q99
Yes. "The Sith Inquisitor" can very well be describing the Sith Inquisitor, not sith inquisitors in general. Even if the entry as a whole is about the class, there is the word choiceage of 'the'.

If you have played the game, you will know that codex entries are not necessarily about playable characters exclusively, only some are and they contain the word "you."

That codex entry represents Sith Inquisitor class of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Originally posted by Q99
(Also, should I mention that OneSith have sith inquisitors as well...?)

They are?

Darth Sidious also had Inquisitors but they are different from Sith Inquisitors of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Originally posted by Q99
Feats > Lore, every time.

Every bit of information is important.

Originally posted by Q99
Though it's not like Legacy stuff is lacking in lore. A few bits from the Legacy campaign guide:

Talon, 'conditioned to be in top physical condition,' 'fast, agile, and has a diversity of skills that makes her one of the most deadly combatants around.' 'Formidable lightsaber duelist.'

Maladi, 'master of assassination,' 'extremely skilled in sith alchemy.'

Wyyrlok, 'one of the greatest scholars of Jedi, Sith, and other force-using tradition,' 'access to books, scrolls, and holocrons from across the eons,' 'By sheer force of will, a sith can achieve almost anything, and Darth Wyyrlok demonstrates this in everything he does.'

Azard's a 'master of the double bladed lightsaber' who closely studies and follows the history of Vader.

I mean, it's less focused on calling everyone 'powerful' than the TOR encyclopedia, even Cade's section is largely about personal goals and motivations, but it still occasionally lays it on thick. It's just the feats are a better guide on the whole.


This is good information, not enough to help Darth Talon in this contest but nonetheless informative.

Also, TOR Enyclopedia doesn't labels everybody powerful. It labels even Revan as powerful and mighty at maximum. The Encyclopedia is conservative in comparison to novels, Encyclopedic mediums always are. You need to buy TOR Encyclopedia and read it.

Does the TOR encyclopedia have anything on the Republic Special forces division?

I don't have it with me, only lent it from a friend. Tempted to buy it but I'm not sure it's worth the stupid amount it costs (compared to other sourcebooks)

Yep. What would you like to know about them?

Yes, it does.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yep. What would you like to know about them?

A scan, quick summary or anything would be great.

They're one of my ground forces, and I don't actually have any sources on them.

And **** Wookieepedia.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

They are?

Darth Sidious also had Inquisitors but they are different from Sith Inquisitors of the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire.

Yes, they have full sith Inquisitors, including Darth Havok, former leader of the Imperial Knights who fell to the dark side.


This is good information, not enough to help Darth Talon in this contest but nonetheless informative.

To be fair, help seems redundant when feats say she has the edge, isn't it?

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, they have full sith Inquisitors, including Darth Havok, former leader of the Imperial Knights who fell to the dark side.

I am surprised that Krayt did not use these individuals much.

Originally posted by Q99
To be fair, help seems redundant when feats say she has the edge, isn't it?

Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Floor-shattering feat is indecisive. In addition, when some debris was hurled at her like a missile from Skywalker, she was not able to tank it and was knocked out for a while. In contrast, Lord Vindican tanked a missile as if it was nothing. Missile is much more lethal offensive weapon then some debris that is hurled like a missile towards a target and also more difficult to counter accordingly. This is clear depiction of disparity between the Force abilities of both.

You have overhyped Talon too much but I killed the hype in my previous post. Talon have never defeated an opponent as powerful and capable as Kao Cen Darach in single combat and neither she have taken out Sith Inquisitors. Let go.

Originally posted by Selenial
A scan, quick summary or anything would be great.

They're one of my ground forces, and I don't actually have any sources on them.

And **** Wookieepedia.


At-least 4 pages are dedicated to the Republic special forces in TOR Encyclopedia.

THE REPUBLIC ARMY'S Special Forces Division, or "SpecForce," is wholly different from any military organization. The rest of the military operates on a grand scale, deploying massive forces of troops, armored walkers, and starships to fight conventional battles against the Empire. SpecForce does the opposite: small teams of elite soldiers outmaneuver the enemy to strike where they are most vulnerable, inflicting damage and spreading chaos far out of proportion to their size. With their advanced equipment, extensive training, and high degree of operational flexibility, even a single SpecForce soldier is a force to be reckoned with. (TOR Encylopedia, page 42)

Vindican hasn't defeated an opponent on the caliber of darach either :/

Originally posted by Selenial
A scan, quick summary or anything would be great.

They're one of my ground forces, and I don't actually have any sources on them.

And **** Wookieepedia.

I'm not very good at scanning or hosting images so if I screwed up I'll try again:

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=23ic574&s=8#.U96x3WP8few
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=153qxw1&s=8#.U96yL2P8few
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2lsuttx&s=8#.U96yoGP8few
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=eu53t4&s=8#.U96y1WP8few
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2dl56b5&s=8#.U96zDmP8few
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2je73no&s=8#.U96zPWP8few

Sorry for the poor quality.

Yeah, these guys are bamf. Captured the Dread Masters under the command of Jaric Kaedan. 😎