Israel/Gaza

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's really an issue that should be addressed when we get to it. The more pressing issue is that Israel and the US in fact currently judge that Palestine is illegitimate, and it has actual real consequences for them. Palestine should be acknowledged as a nation, and have a seat in the United Nations. That way they can negotiate eye to eye with their occupiers.

Confuses me as to why Gaza thinks they are a legitimate nation as well as the Palestine nations or groups like Hamas, when they are not apart of the UN, when Israel is apart of the UN and the Palestine nations or groups like Hamas do not think they are a legitimate nation.

I mean the Jewish people have been in that region for over 5000 years, I don't understand how they think this way, as Israel is sanctioned by the UN ever since 1948.

Well, that's obviously historically based. As Israel is really a very new country, and the people living in the region previously felt like Israel's road to a nation was illegitimate and at the expense of their homelands (the latter of which it was of course, not aided by the expansion through war).

Originally posted by Bardock42
That's really an issue that should be addressed when we get to it. The more pressing issue is that Israel and the US in fact currently judge that Palestine is illegitimate, and it has actual real consequences for them. Palestine should be acknowledged as a nation, and have a seat in the United Nations. That way they can negotiate eye to eye with their occupiers.

Though I really don't think that will stop Hamas and pro-Hamas supporters from bombing Israel.

Hamas wants the whole Israel territory and to wipe out the Jews and other non-Muslims, which is next to impossible now that Jews practically control Israel (and America as well).

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that's obviously historically based. As Israel is really a very new country, and the people living in the region previously felt like Israel's road to a nation was illegitimate and at the expense of their homelands (the latter of which it was of course, not aided by the expansion through war).

Hamas should blame Hilter then 😆

Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Good points.

Though I really don't think that will stop Hamas and pro-Hamas supporters from bombing Israel.

Hamas want the whole Israel territory and to wipe out the Jews and other non-Muslims, which is next is to impossible now that Jews practically control Israel (and America as well).

I agree that it will likely not stop Hamas. That's not really the point though, and at any rate, being treated better or equal may deprive Hamas of support in Palestine in the long run. Currently they are hailed as some of the only people actually standing up against the oppression of Palestine, and to me at least, it is understandable, if however not to be condoned.

Coincidentally the leadership in the West Bank, where things seem to be considerably less bad, is much more moderate.

Israel turned more land over to Gaza. They removed all Jewish settlers. Turned everything over to Gaza, this was developed land and very good land, for farming. The first thing Gaza did was destroy all the infrastructure and everything that had been turned over. If Gaza would have been peaceful, Israel would have allowed them more land a sea port and more. Gaza has fired over 20,000 rockets in the last 10 years into Israel.

Israel is constantly shooting rockets into Palestine currently.

The death toll really paints the correct picture here:
Israel: 64 Soldiers and 5 Civilians dead
Palestine: 2139 people, most of them civilians, including more than 490 children dead

Originally posted by Bardock42
Well, that's obviously historically based. As Israel is really a very new country, and the people living in the region previously felt like Israel's road to a nation was illegitimate and at the expense of their homelands (the latter of which it was of course, not aided by the expansion through war).

What were they using the land for anyways; throwing rocks at each other and using goat's teeth for money.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Israel is constantly shooting rockets into Palestine currently.

The death toll really paints the correct picture here:
Israel: 64 Soldiers and 5 Civilians dead
Palestine: 2139 people, most of them civilians, including more than 490 children dead

Can't blame them entirely though, it was their experiences with past and current Islamic terrorist groups which provoked them to do this shit.

Israel has been playing a diplomatic and political game, with spikes of military terrorism thrown in, at the expense of the Palestinian people for years. I don't see much of a change. Palestine needs its own internationally recognised nation, without that the process of peace can never advance.

Hamas is terrorist, we kill terrorists..

SIMPLE AS THAT

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Hamas is terrorist, we kill terrorists..

SIMPLE AS THAT

"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." -Pablo Picasso

Originally posted by Robtard
[B]"One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." -Pablo Picaso

Simply put it sucks to be a terrorist of a superior nation of firepower.

Originally posted by Time Immemorial
Hamas is terrorist, we kill terrorists..

SIMPLE AS THAT

Israel is literally terrorising the people in Gaza...shouldn't the US be looking into that?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Israel is literally terrorising the people in Gaza...shouldn't the US be looking into that?

How are they terrorizing them?

Targeted bombings, arbitrary arrests, control of food and resources.

Originally posted by Bardock42
Targeted bombings, arbitrary arrests, control of food and resources.

Target bombings is because of military supremacy.

When invading armies used to invade countries they cut off food and supplies because an enemy without food or resources gives up the will to fight.

This is Art of War stuff..

Originally posted by Bardock42
Israel is literally terrorising the people in Gaza...shouldn't the US be looking into that?

But the people of Gaza can stop Israel at any time. All they have to do is stop Hamas from firing rocket into Israel. Then they could have a lasting peace if they would just recognize Israel as having a right to exist. If the people of Gaza did those two things, then the world would look at Israel, and they would have no choice but remove their army and stop shelling.

This is designed to keep the people of Gaza in a constant state of fear. It is terrorism on a grand scale, much more sophisticated than what traditional terror organisations like Al Qaida or Hamas can do. And it is no better than them. If anything they kill considerably more civilians, both in raw numbers and by the percentages.

Israel is outraged that Hamas is trying to retaliate, as ineffective as it is, while employing the same or worse tactics on the people living in Gaza. You are illustrating partly what Rob said, and partly the double standard that is being used to condemn Hamas, if Israel is waging a war, then so is Hamas. Either both sides employ terror or both sides wage a war...

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
But the people of Gaza can stop Israel at any time. All they have to do is stop Hamas from firing rocket into Israel. Then they could have a lasting peace if they would just recognize Israel as having a right to exist. If the people of Gaza did those two things, then the world would look at Israel, and they would have no choice but remove their army and stop shelling.

History has shown that that is not the case. Israel has no desire to give in to the demands of a free palestinian state, and their previous aggressions are proof of that. At any rate I don't believe the people of Gaza, and even more specifically individuals in Gaza, actually have much ability to stop Hamas, even if they wanted to.