Darth Nox vs. Count Dooku

Originally posted by Sinious
As I've said earlier, Dooku is too capable in the force to be dominated like that. His disadvantage would be the lack of knowledge of the ancient sith techniques but he would definitely defend his way to a melee combat.

Are you trying to imply that Darth Thanaton was lacking in strength?

With Darth Zash subdued, the Sith Inquisitor inherits her power base and becomes a Sith Lord. But the inquisitor nearly loses everything after being caught in a trap devised by Darth Thanaton, a supremely powerful Sith and harsh traditionalist who bristles at the idea of a former slave rising to sudden influence. To combat Thanaton's insurmountable strength, the inquisitor learns the ritual of Force-walking and gains power by consuming the energy of Darth Andru, a seething Force spirit locked away on Dromund Kaas. Fueled by the ghost's power, the inquisitor confronts Thanaton - only to be nearly eradicated by the superior Sith's dark sorcery. (TOR Encyclopedia)

This is the situation:-

Darth Nox (powerful by mythos standards) < Darth Skotia < Darth Thanaton (supremely powerful by mythos standards) < Darth Nox (augmented by combined might of several Force ghosts and ancient Rakatan technology)

Force ghost is a powerful manifestation of energy in its own right, a lone ghost can be extremely dangerous to mortals. Some Force ghosts mortally wounded even Darth Sidious on Korriban. Try to comprehend.

Darth Nox dominated/defeated Darth Thanaton with incredible power of Force ghosts and sorcery, it wasn't even a contest otherwise.

Also, if this is telling, Darth Sidious easily Force-choked Count Dooku from lightyears distance at one point to discipline him and remind of his fallibility. I am not sure if Count Dooku was ready for combat at this point but it is an event and demonstration of noticeable power gap between these two characters.

Originally posted by Sinious
You are heavily underrating Dooku here.

I understand that Count Dooku is famous and have notable feats but this doesn't implies that he will be able to challenge every Force-user of the mythos.

Originally posted by Sinious
I keep experiencing a culture shock in this forum. Legend claims that Skotia is Dooku's equal and then Carthage thinks Dooku can defeat Vitiate. 😆

If I have stated something or presented an argument, it have basis. I don't give weightage to pure speculation, not my mindset.

Fact is that you cannot properly reconcile ground realities of TOR era content with that of PT/OT/Legacy era content, and you may have felt like this at-least once. As an analogy, if you have played Jedi Knight SWTOR story, you will find it difficult to accept that Hero of Tython is below Yoda, might even regard Hero of Tython as a match for Luke Skywalker. I understand that it is controversial to debate in favor of TOR era content but I am a realist and not a strict traditionalist. Many people tend to have inflated perceptions about PT/OT/Legacy era characters but they are not necessarily correct.

Ground realities of Star Wars are ever-changing. For example:-

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall. (Star Wars official databank)

This is retcon of an older ground reality of the lore under Disney and it is a positive one. A mortal shouldn't logically have the potential to become most powerful Force-user of the mythos.

Originally posted by Sinious
Again, same could be said for Nox.

Originally posted by Sinious
Dread Masters are more powerful in total and they can perform extremely devastating attacks together where Dark Council members are weaker and aren't a real team. The DM wins for sure. Still though, I think Darth Jadus has the potential to be more powerful than a dread master and Malgus could give a good fight.

Not sure about Darth Jadus's potential but he is possibly the strongest mortal of the Empire.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If we start regarding ourselves as authority then who needs actual authority on Star Wars to give us directions and information that we depend upon?

I made an informed assessment, I cannot verify it at official capacity but it have some basis. The real problem with Star Wars is that we have lot of unanswered questions and this is why debates occur. Some ground realities of the lore are solidly apparent even without official verification such as Emperor Vitiate > Count Dooku but not every aspect of the lore is crystal clear to us and therefore leaves room for debate.

Those sources merely inform our opinions. Like you say, informed assessments. There's nothing wrong with that. I consider myself an authority in that I can make informed statements about the subject with evidence backing up assertions up.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
First of all, it was not easy to even graduate in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, standards were ridiculously high in this Empire for becoming a Sith Lord, underlings mostly perished.

More era bias from you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Secondly, I am not impressed by Darth Skotia on the basis of his recognition as a Darth but because of the fact that even the most promising graduate in a span of generations could not handle him in a fair contest, a graduate who has impressed Khem Val earlier, a being who was impressed by only Tulak Hord in history before, noted that Khem Val did not meet everybody but still Tulak Hord is among the biggest fish in the pond (mythos). Darth Skotia had augmented his power with state-of-the-art cybernetics and they had to be compromised before he could be taken out and he was noted for his power even by prominent Sith of his era which I may add are one of the most impressive to have ever existed in history, this is the crucial observation.

Firstly, who says Nox and Khem couldn't have beaten him without weakening him? That they did doesn't mean they had to. Heck, I can't even recall if you actually have to use the device on him. So Nox might have just beaten him without it.

None of that adds up to Dooku level. Again I state, you've gone completely insane with this one.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is safe to assume that Darth Skotia is among the extraordinary at holistic level, thanks to his unnatural power progression but valid part of the equation defining his strength.

Lmao. Being a cyborg hinders your ability to draw on the Force, not enhance it. Look at Vader.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Of-course, even he is outclassed at the APEX of the Empire but this is indication of extreme standards of Sith in the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire in general. Sith arguably approached their peak in every aspect of Sith ideals within the reconstituted ancient Sith Empire, standards for becoming Lords and Darths also became ridiculously high accordingly.

TOR wank.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You also asserted that Lord Zash isn't impressive? Well, here is a revelation for you:-

The bright, energetic, and disarmingly friendly Lord Zash is a devoted Sith and master of the dark arts. (TOR Encyclopedia)

My left nut is a master of the dark arts. All Sith Lords are. Just like all Jedi Masters are masters of the Force. That's why they're called Jedi Masters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Did I assert that Ahsoka Tano is on par with Count Dooku? I am not ignorant of the well-known ground realities of the lore.

🙄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Years later, Darth Thanaton is on the verge of securing his seat on the Dark Council. But his plans are momentarily disrupted when his underling, Darth Skotia, is killed by the upstart Sith Lord Zash and her powerful new apprentice. (TOR Encyclopedia)

I suppose you haven't read TOR Encyclopedia properly. Do me a favor; read TOR Encyclopedia properly instead of boasting about your possession of it.

Oh suck my dick Legend. Your condescension is making me seriously consider just stopping talking to you.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Power is relative but context is important to consider. A Sith Lord of lets say Legacy era may not be regarded as powerful in the reconstructed ancient Sith Empire or even be successful in it, if planted there. Reason is that reconstituted ancient Sith Empire had ridiculously high standards for Lords and Darths and enormous competition in which even prominent Sith could fall. This is why every Lord and Darth was a big thing and an imposing figure in the Empire for the lesser individuals.

More ridiculous era bias.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Now you are being ridiculous.

Darth Nox wasn't inexperienced when he confronted Darth Skotia, he had proven his credibility in the deadly Sith trails, an official method for becoming a Lord in the Empire, and had reasonable combat experience under his belt before confronting Darth Skotia, had to fight many individuals before confronting Darth Skotia.

Lord Zash was not an idiot, she wouldn't have sent her apprentice to fight Darth Skotia if she had no hope of success.

Nox was inexperienced in that she'd just started learning to use the Force a few weeks or months before her fight with Skotia.

You're being ridiculous if you think she wasn't inexperienced.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I agree with Hero of Tython part but Darth Nox wasn't a nobody a the time of his confrontation with Darth Skotia. He had already rolled heads on the basis of his performance in the deadly Sith trials and gained attention of prominent Sith of the Empire.

Nox basically was a nobody at this point. That's also why Zash had her kill Skotia, no one believed a nobody apprentice could haven beaten him. This literally happens if you try telling people you did it. There goes your "Nox was the most powerful Sith Lord at the time" bs.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Skotia was (not) taken out in a fair contest. My reasoning is adequately covered above.

Who cares, its not as if anyone would need to weaken him to beat him. That he was probably weakened doesn't make him Dooku level, that's utterly hilarity.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is so wrong.

The fact that you are the biggest fanboy on the entire forum, is simply an immutable fact that I am stating for the record.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Just one of the Darths in the Empire? Is this is why Lord Zash did not challenge him?

No, the reason Lord Zash didn't challenge Darth Skotia is because Lord Zash was a Lord and Darth Skotia was a Darth. Zash couldn't beat him because she wasn't a Darth level combatant.

Also because she wasn't allowed to kill him. She had to get Nox to do it while she established an alibi for herself. Thanaton would have killed her outright if she had openly killed Skotia. If you'd played the Inquisitor campaign you'd know this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nice try but your propaganda didn't work. I have TOR Encyclopedia at my disposal to figure out ground realities of TOR era content.

Yes, you played the story, but this doesn't solves the issue at hand. Issue is with your mindset and lack of focus on important details.

When it suits you, you try to hype Darth Nox or any character in extreme fashion and provide details that you won't otherwise, when it does not, you try to lowball them in worst possible fashion and skip details that may weaken your position.

Do me a favor, at-least be consistent in your position.

A second hand source can only get you so far, Legend. Without any experience with the actual content, your assessments are going to be inaccurate. Which they are.

The issue is actually your absurd TOR bias and willingness to wank anyone from that era to insane levels. Skotia being on Dooku level is one if the most ridiculously awful arguments you've ever made.

Yeah, I hype Darth Nox. Not the apprentice Inquisitor who has only just gotten off of Korriban. Nox by the end of the campaign is perhaps in the top 10 most powerful Sith ever. Nox even by the end of Act I is a powerful Sith Lord, that's all. Before Act I has even started, Nox isn't even that. She is a prodigy and is powerful, but is still developing her power at this point and is still basically a padawan. This is literally months or maybe even weeks since Nox was a slave with no training in the Force. You yourself argued that that amount of time wouldn't allow for much development.

So how about you try being consistent.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are not making sense here.

Are you trying to imply that Darth Thanaton was lacking in strength?

With Darth Zash subdued, the Sith Inquisitor inherits her power base and becomes a Sith Lord. But the inquisitor nearly loses everything after being caught in a trap devised by Darth Thanaton, a supremely powerful Sith and harsh traditionalist who bristles at the idea of a former slave rising to sudden influence. To combat Thanaton's insurmountable strength, the inquisitor learns the ritual of Force-walking and gains power by consuming the energy of Darth Andru, a seething Force spirit locked away on Dromund Kaas. Fueled by the ghost's power, the inquisitor confronts Thanaton - only to be nearly eradicated by the superior Sith's dark sorcery. (TOR Encyclopedia)

This is the situation:-

[B]Darth Nox (powerful by mythos standards) < Darth Skotia < Darth Thanaton (supremely powerful by mythos standards) < Darth Nox (augmented by combined might of several Force ghosts and ancient Rakatan technology)

Force ghost is a powerful manifestation of energy in its own right, a lone ghost can be extremely dangerous to mortals. Some Force ghosts mortally wounded even Darth Sidious on Korriban. Try to comprehend.

Darth Nox dominated/defeated Darth Thanaton with incredible power of Force ghosts and sorcery, it wasn't even a contest otherwise.

Also, if this is telling, Darth Sidious easily Force-choked Count Dooku from lightyears distance at one point to discipline him and remind of his fallibility. I am not sure if Count Dooku was ready for combat at this point but it is an event and demonstration of noticeable power gap between these two characters. [/B]

No Darth Thanaton is strong, you made sure everyone acknowledges that. By the way, I intact did say Dooku would get this fight before but I honestly think it could go either way and after rethinking about Nox's peak power, Im leaning towards him. This doesn't change the fact that Dooku can hold himself and would give a good fight and if he concentrates to that, he can manage his way to a melee combat.

I am not.

I understand that Count Dooku is famous and have notable feats but this doesn't implies that he will be able to challenge every Force-user of the mythos.

I never said that. Nox isnt that far above though. Even in his own era, there are plenty of sith that could defeat him.

Check my last response to fellow member Nephthys on previous page. I don't like repeating myself again and again.

If I have stated something or presented an argument, it have basis. I don't give weightage to pure speculation, not my mindset.

You have speculated greatly when you were comparing the feats of the Ones to others.

Fact is that you cannot properly reconcile ground realities of TOR era content with that of PT/OT/Legacy era content, and you may have felt like this at-least once. As an analogy, if you have played Jedi Knight SWTOR story, you will find it difficult to accept that Hero of Tython is below Yoda, might even regard Hero of Tython as a match for Luke Skywalker. I understand that it is controversial to debate in favor of TOR era content but I am a realist and not a strict traditionalist. Many people tend to have inflated perceptions about PT/OT/Legacy era characters but they are not necessarily correct.

Ground realities of Star Wars are ever-changing. For example:-

Discovered as a slave on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker had the potential to become one of the most powerful Jedi ever, and was believed by some to be the prophesied Chosen One who would bring balance to the Force. A hero of the Clone Wars, Anakin was caring and compassionate, but also had a fear of loss that would prove to be his downfall. (Star Wars official databank)

This is retcon of an older ground reality of the lore under Disney and it is a positive one. A mortal shouldn't logically have the potential to become most powerful Force-user of the mythos.

I agree on this. It is hard to compare different eras within SW. This is why I think Dooku has a chance. The movies and the cartoon isnt doing any favors to the characters in them.

Good points.

Not sure about Darth Jadus's potential but he is possibly the strongest mortal of the Empire.

I simply think its safe to give a chance to his story. We know so little of him for now and based on what he has shown so far, I think he might be capable of insanely devastating force skills in the future, should there be any additional storylines.

pfft me and khem almost beat Skotia without the anti-cyborg weapon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those sources merely inform our opinions. Like you say, informed assessments. There's nothing wrong with that. I consider myself an authority in that I can make informed statements about the subject with evidence backing up assertions up.

Originally posted by Nephthys
More era bias from you.

Regardless of potential, few acolytes succeed in facing the rigorous trials to become Sith Inquisitors.

Source: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

Every Force-sensitive being in the Empire must endure the harsh, unrelenting trails that have shaped the Sith for millennia. Some are groomed for the privilege from the moment they display Force sensitivity. Others fear the trials and hide their talent, only to be forced to face the tests. But regardless of their background, most acolytes die utter failures, their weakness exposed by the crushing demands of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Whether broken by their overseer's instruction, struck down by their fellow acolytes, or devoured by the beasts of Korriban, many acolytes perish during their training. Others use the trials to hone their strength and deepen their understanding of the dark side, But ultimately, only the most fearsome, mighty, and cunning acolytes rise to prove their worth and become Sith.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

&

Few complete the deadly Sith trials. To attain the rank of Sith, acolytes must become the apprentice of a Sith Lord and offer their lives to their new Master's bidding. Sith Lords seeking an apprentice closely watch the new crop of acolytes. They are quick to claim the most powerful of students, while some Sith Lords intervene in an acolyte's training to groom the perfect servant.

Finally, after conquering the trials and being taken as an apprentice, the acolyte becomes a Sith - the most powerful, respected, and feared beings in all of the Empire.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Era bias? My foot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Firstly, who says Nox and Khem couldn't have beaten him without weakening him? That they did doesn't mean they had to. Heck, I can't even recall if you actually have to use the device on him. So Nox might have just beaten him without it.

It is confirmed in TOR Encyclopedia that Darth Skotia's cybernetics had to be sabotaged before he could taken out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
None of that adds up to Dooku level. Again I state, you've gone completely insane with this one.

If Count Dooku is on Darth Skotia level, it doesn't takes away from his repute, power and skills. Maybe, Count Dooku is relatively superior duelist but my focus is on power only. You believe that Count Dooku is powerful enough to defeat another powerful Sith? Well, Darth Skotia have comparable hype in this context.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lmao. Being a cyborg hinders your ability to draw on the Force, not enhance it. Look at Vader.

Vader's situation is different, he was mortally wounded during his combat with Obi-Wan and his survival depended upon cybernetics.

Originally posted by Nephthys
TOR wank.

Reconstituted ancient

Originally posted by Nephthys
My left nut is a master of the dark arts. All Sith Lords are. Just like all Jedi Masters are masters of the Force. That's why they're called Jedi Masters.

This is a generalization, few Jedi and Sith become absolute masters of the Force. TOR Encyclopedia also recognizes few Jedi and Sith as absolute masters of the Force.

The Jedi (Master) label does not implies absolute mastery of the Force, it is simply an identity of a Jedi Knight who officially trains other Jedi in the ways of the Force. A Force-user becomes fully trained in the ways of the Jedi at Knighthood. After this, a Jedi Knight can take an apprentice and train him/her in the ways of the Jedi, likely earning the title of Jedi Master.

Originally posted by Nephthys
🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh suck my dick Legend. Your condescension is making me seriously consider just stopping talking to you.

I proved that Darth Nox was a powerful Sith during his days of apprenticeship to Lord Zash and this is your reaction? I accept your concession.

Originally posted by Nephthys
More ridiculous era bias.

Few complete the deadly Sith trials. To attain the rank of Sith, acolytes must become the apprentice of a Sith Lord and offer their lives to their new Master's bidding. Sith Lords seeking an apprentice closely watch the new crop of acolytes. They are quick to claim the most powerful of students, while some Sith Lords intervene in an acolyte's training to groom the perfect servant.

Finally, after conquering the trials and being taken as an apprentice, the acolyte becomes a Sith - the most powerful, respected, and feared beings in all of the Empire.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

&

The history of the Sith Empire is fraught with scheming politics and dark secrets—the lifeblood of the Sith Inquisitor. Treachery hides around every corner in the Empire's dark corridors, and survival depends on an individual’s natural cunning and the will to manipulate and defeat their enemies and allies alike. The Inquisitor experiments with forbidden powers to not only survive in this cutthroat environment, but to excel and seize authority.

Source: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

&

To serve on the Dark Council is to achieve the greatest position of honor, power, and influence in the Empire. Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the council, but with millions vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat. The powerful few who join the council often serve for only a few months, their lives cut short by internal power struggles or external enemies who target them for assassination.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Connect the dots, genius.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox was inexperienced in that she'd just started learning to use the Force a few weeks or months before her fight with Skotia.

You're being ridiculous if you think she wasn't inexperienced.

Also, what do you assume by experience? Experience in combat? Darth Nox dealt with many opponents before confronting Darth Skotia.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Nox basically was a nobody at this point. That's also why Zash had her kill Skotia, no one believed a nobody apprentice could haven beaten him. This literally happens if you try telling people you did it. There goes your "Nox was the most powerful Sith Lord at the time" bs.

You are not making sense here, Lord Zash would send a nobody to deal with Darth Skotia? 🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Who cares, its not as if anyone would need to weaken him to beat him. That he was probably weakened doesn't make him Dooku level, that's utterly hilarity.

Look! I made an assessment, I cannot officially validate it but same is the situation with you. Chances of fallibility exist for your assessment too.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The fact that you are the biggest fanboy on the entire forum, is simply an immutable fact that I am stating for the record.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No, the reason Lord Zash didn't challenge Darth Skotia is because Lord Zash was a Lord and Darth Skotia was a Darth. Zash couldn't beat him because she wasn't a Darth level combatant.

Emperor Vitiate have been labeled as Darth only once, mostly Lord and Emperor. So he is not a Darth level combatant?

Lord Zash is officially a master of dart arts, what makes you think she wasn't a Darth level combatant? Her reluctance to challenge Darth Skotia is greater indication of extreme power of the latter then weakness of the former.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Also because she wasn't allowed to kill him. She had to get Nox to do it while she established an alibi for herself. Thanaton would have killed her outright if she had openly killed Skotia. If you'd played the Inquisitor campaign you'd know this.

Do Sith need permission from others to kill others? 🙄

Thanaton may have dealt with Lord Zash but this wouldn't be sufficient reason to discourage Lord Zash from taking the initiative herself. Thanaton would have been aware of antics of Lord Zash since she benefitted from demise of Darth Skotia. In-fact, Lord Zash planned a ritual to significantly increase her power by consuming Darth Nox but was stopped by Khem Val.

Originally posted by Nephthys
A second hand source can only get you so far, Legend. Without any experience with the actual content, your assessments are going to be inaccurate. Which they are.

Yes, stories are more comprehensive and detailed then summaries about them in TOR Encyclopedia but those summaries are detailed enough to understand the ground realities of the stories.

Don't worry, I will start Sith Inquisitor story soon. Possibly from today.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The issue is actually your absurd TOR bias and willingness to wank anyone from that era to insane levels. Skotia being on Dooku level is one if the most ridiculously awful arguments you've ever made.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, I hype Darth Nox. Not the apprentice Inquisitor who has only just gotten off of Korriban. Nox by the end of the campaign is perhaps in the top 10 most powerful Sith ever. Nox even by the end of Act I is a powerful Sith Lord, that's all.[/Color]

Years later, Darth Thanaton is on the verge of securing his seat on the Dark Council. But his plans are momentarily disrupted when his underling, Darth Skotia, is killed by the upstart Sith Lord Zash and her powerful new apprentice.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Originally posted by Nephthys
Before Act I has even started, Nox isn't even that. She is a prodigy and is powerful, but is still developing her power at this point and is still basically a padawan. This is literally months or maybe even weeks since Nox was a slave with no training in the Force. You yourself argued that that amount of time wouldn't allow for much development.

So how about you try being consistent.

I am consistent, Nephthys. Instead of labeling me as biased, mocking my informed assessments, try to understand the greater ground realities of TOR era content.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No.

Reconstituted ancient

Reconstituted ancient Sith surpassed earlier Sith in all aspects, they began to improve even during the days of trying to search a suitable place to restart the Empire.

For 20 years, the exiled Sith fleet drifted through deep space. The Sith healed their wounds and reflected on their defeat. Imperial battle strategies were dissected, internal Strife was identified as a key weakness, and the Republic's surprise and slow move to defend itself was seen as a vulnerability ripe for exploit.

Meanwhile, the Sith dedicated themselves to training. They delved deep into the dark side of the Force, mastered new powers, and honed their minds and bodies into efficient weapons. Then, after nearly too decades of planning and training, they discovered the world of Dromund Kaas.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

When the Empire was established, rigorous training system was introduced to ensure rise of quality Sith among the future generations. Associated information already provided.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I always value informed assessments, nothing wrong with this. However, to make informed assessments, you need to focus on available information properly and not make stuff up or use excuses to serve your agenda.

A rather ironic statement for you. You're whole debating style is taking out-of-context quotes and feats and rating them wildly out of proportion to buff up your favorite era. I have no agenda here, Legend. I argue in favor of TOR content in the majority of my posts. And even I'm appalled by your argument here. Darth Skotia as powerful as one of the greatest Sith to ever live? Excuse me while I shudder. This should be a reality check for you. I'm your biggest supporter usually and I'm the one most offended by your wank.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have the sources at your disposal, why don't you pay attention to them?

Regardless of potential, few acolytes succeed in facing the rigorous trials to become Sith Inquisitors.

Source: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

Every Force-sensitive being in the Empire must endure the harsh, unrelenting trails that have shaped the Sith for millennia. Some are groomed for the privilege from the moment they display Force sensitivity. Others fear the trials and hide their talent, only to be forced to face the tests. But regardless of their background, most acolytes die utter failures, their weakness exposed by the crushing demands of the Sith Academy on Korriban. Whether broken by their overseer's instruction, struck down by their fellow acolytes, or devoured by the beasts of Korriban, many acolytes perish during their training. Others use the trials to hone their strength and deepen their understanding of the dark side, [B]But ultimately, only the most fearsome, mighty, and cunning acolytes rise to prove their worth and become Sith.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

&

Few complete the deadly Sith trials. To attain the rank of Sith, acolytes must become the apprentice of a Sith Lord and offer their lives to their new Master's bidding. Sith Lords seeking an apprentice closely watch the new crop of acolytes. They are quick to claim the most powerful of students, while some Sith Lords intervene in an acolyte's training to groom the perfect servant.

Finally, after conquering the trials and being taken as an apprentice, the acolyte becomes a Sith - the most powerful, respected, and feared beings in all of the Empire.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Era bias? My foot.[/b]

Yes, era bias. It's tough to become a Sith in any era. Just because it was more intensive in the TOR era means little, it doesn't magic up a bunch of individuals with greater Force potential than there exists in other eras. The most powerful TOR acolytes would have become Sith in any other era regardless of the strictness of the training. Also the harshness means many who could have been good Sith died in the unfair conditions and their potential was wasted.

And besides, even if the standard Sith are superior, that doesn't mean a rank and file Sith like Skotia, who has millions as powerful as himself existing in TOR, would be on the level of Dooku, who is in the top 5 of his era and one of the most powerful Sith ever. That's ridiculous.

Now tell me how the ground realities of the TOR era were sooo different from that of the PT and we can't compare blah blah blah. 🙄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Nice attempt at discrediting official story related ground reality.

It is confirmed in TOR Encyclopedia that Darth Skotia's cybernetics had to be sabotaged before he could taken out.

It seems my point stands. Nox did sabotage Skotia, but theres no evidence that Nox required to do that to beat him or couldn't have done so without weakening him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nox was already a powerful Sith when he confronted Darth Skotia. Yet, Darth Skotia was powerful enough to defeat another powerful Sith and was taken down through unfair means.

If Count Dooku is on Darth Skotia level, it doesn't takes away from his repute, power and skills. Maybe, Count Dooku is relatively superior duelist but my focus is on power only. You believe that Count Dooku is powerful enough to defeat another powerful Sith? Well, Darth Skotia have comparable hype in this context.

Who cares if Skotia could beat a powerful apprentice, which hasn't been established btw. I've already proven in the other thread that you're using the term powerful in an incorrect manner and that it can be applied to many, many individuals who are not even as powerful as a standard Jedi Knight.

I does take away from his repute, because one of the premier Force users from the PT era, who is one of the strongest Sith in any era, would be a mid-level Darth nobody in the TOR era. Which is obviously what you're trying to establish. Dooku is so far above Skotia he could likely ragdoll him in under a second. Dooku has incredibly powerful TK feats and this would be well within his capabilities.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Depends upon nature of cybernetics and physical condition of the individual. Remember Lord Sadic? He augmented his power and combat prowess with cybernetics.

Vader's situation is different, he was mortally wounded during his combat with Obi-Wan and his survival depended upon cybernetics.

Yeah, and Skotia was also highly dependent upon his implants. That's why Nox disabling them weakened him so much, remember? He was more machine than man.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

That's nice. I don't care. A standard Darth like Skotia couldn't beat Count Dooku even if he was blind, weakened and half-asleep. Dooku defeated 3 powerful individuals in such a condition, his skills is that good.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
A swift kick to it would knock you back to your senses (Jokishly, no pun intended).

This is a generalization, few Jedi and Sith become absolute masters of the Force. TOR Encyclopedia also recognizes few Jedi and Sith as absolute masters of the Force.

The Jedi (Master) label does not implies absolute mastery of the Force, it is simply an identity of a Jedi Knight who officially trains other Jedi in the ways of the Force. A Force-user becomes fully trained in the ways of the Jedi at Knighthood. After this, a Jedi Knight can take an apprentice and train him/her in the ways of the Jedi, likely earning the title of Jedi Master.

You yourself posted a quote stating that an Inquisitor is a master of the dark side. There are millions of Inquisitor's in the Empire, Legend and they're outranked by Sith Lords and Jedi Masters. Consular's are also stated to be "masters of the Force" and the Jedi Order is rife with them. And they're not all Jedi Masters. Jedi Masters represent a higher level even than a standard Consular.

So all you've established is that Zash is as good as any regular Jedi and Sith who focuses on the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You should roll your eyes at your own naivety.

I'm rolling my eyes at your inability to grasp what an example is. I never said you stated Ahsoka was on Dooku level, I was making a point about how she's referred to as powerful yet is clearly well below a notable Jedi or Sith.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Once again, my foot.

Few complete the deadly Sith trials. To attain the rank of Sith, acolytes must become the apprentice of a Sith Lord and offer their lives to their new Master's bidding. Sith Lords seeking an apprentice closely watch the new crop of acolytes. They are quick to claim the most powerful of students, while some Sith Lords intervene in an acolyte's training to groom the perfect servant.

Finally, after conquering the trials and being taken as an apprentice, the acolyte becomes a Sith - the most powerful, respected, and feared beings in all of the Empire.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

&

The history of the Sith Empire is fraught with scheming politics and dark secrets—the lifeblood of the Sith Inquisitor. Treachery hides around every corner in the Empire's dark corridors, and survival depends on an individual’s natural cunning and the will to manipulate and defeat their enemies and allies alike. The Inquisitor experiments with forbidden powers to not only survive in this cutthroat environment, but to excel and seize authority.

Source: http://www.swtor.com/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

&

To serve on the Dark Council is to achieve the greatest position of honor, power, and influence in the Empire. Many Sith spend their lives plotting their ascension to the council, but with millions vying for only 12 seats, the competition is cutthroat. The powerful few who join the council often serve for only a few months, their lives cut short by internal power struggles or external enemies who target them for assassination.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Connect the dots, genius.

I can connect the dots all you want, but 2 + 2 will never equal 5 and Darth Skotia will never equal Tyranus.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nox would have been a fast learner.

Also, what do you assume by experience? Experience in combat? Darth Nox dealt with many opponents before confronting Darth Skotia.

So was the Hero of Tython, yet you disagreed that she could have significantly developed her skills in a years time. But when it comes to Nox, suddenly she can become one of the strongest around from the lowliest slave in a few weeks? Lawl, it feels good to be pointing out other people double standards for a change and this is a doozie.

So what? Her combat experience still couldn't have been very high considering the length of time. It's literally impossible.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Nox wasn't a nobody at this point, his amazing performance during the deadly Sith trials drew attention of Lord Zash and she considered him for apprenticeship.

You are not making sense here, Lord Zash would send a nobody to deal with Darth Skotia? 🙄

Lmao! Nox gained Zash's attention by shooting lightning at a rock. She completed a task no-one else had in centuries because no-one else was dumb enough to get frustrated and blast a priceless artifact with lightning.

To fight a weakened Darth Skotia with a Dashade as back-up. Yeah, she sent a mere apprentice.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Utter hilarity is at how you tend to lowball (natural) Darth Nox and ignore important details.

Look! I made an assessment, I cannot officially validate it but same is the situation with you. Chances of fallibility exist for your assessment too.

I've still not heard you establish exactly why a dude needing to be beaten somehow makes them on Dooku's level. Even if Nox did need to do that, Nox isn't even in Dooku's remote league at this point. Put Dooku in Skotia's position and Nox would have gotten massacred.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks to people like you, I have to go out of my way to debate in favor of TOR era content. Because people like you are not ready to accept possibilities that may challenge your core beliefs. My advice to you is to have an open mind and not behave like a stone.

I'm the best advocate for the TOR era on the forum and have done more for it than you. People are actively turned away from this era because of your absurd wanking. Until I established Nox's ability, you and others had no idea about her capabilities. And my mind is open. I used to argue against TOR content, but by actually experiencing it I gained knowledge about the characters power. I simply don't take it crazy extremes like you do.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, this is generalization as well. I understand that the title of Darth symbolizes apex of Sith power hierarchy but Lords can be Darth level combatants. The title of Darth is a newer invention, most Sith were labeled as Lords in the ancient Empire that was routed by Great Hyperspace War.

Emperor Vitiate have been labeled as Darth only once, mostly Lord and Emperor. So he is not a Darth level combatant?

Lord Zash is officially a master of dart arts, what makes you think she wasn't a Darth level combatant? Her reluctance to challenge Darth Skotia is greater indication of extreme power of the latter then weakness of the former.

I don't care.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
She wasn't allowed to kill him? (WTF)

Do Sith need permission from others to kill others? 🙄

Thanaton may have dealt with Lord Zash but this wouldn't be sufficient reason to discourage Lord Zash from taking the initiative herself. Thanaton would have been aware of antics of Lord Zash since she benefitted from demise of Darth Skotia. In-fact, Lord Zash planned a ritual to significantly increase her power by consuming Darth Nox but was stopped by Khem Val.

Um, yes. You can't just walk into someones study and kill them on Dromund Kaas. As I said, Zash needed Nox to kill Skotia for her while she was at a party. Therefore she had a perfect alibi and couldn't be targeted by Thanaton for killing Skotia. The whole reason why Thanaton hates Nox so much is because Zash and Nox broke the rules by killing Skotia. Again, you should play the game and then you'd know all of this.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Second hand source? TOR Encyclopedia covers larger ground realities of the lore then the game itself does.

Yes, stories are more comprehensive and detailed then summaries about them in TOR Encyclopedia but those summaries are detailed enough to understand the ground realities of the stories.

Don't worry, I will start Sith Inquisitor story soon. Possibly from today.

Lol, no it doesn't. TOR is the main source and is the best form in which to understand the era from. There is soooo much more information in there than is presented in the sourcebook. Swtore is just the brief summation of the events that take place in the game. If you want the true groud realities you have to access the source first hand.

That's the smartest idea you've had all thread. Though I'd prefer you play the Warrior campaign. We need more people who can argue for the Wrath, and his story should be easier for you to wank since he defeats a powerful Terentatek and one of the greatest Sith Overseers in history while still training on Korriban. The Wrath really does need more respect around here.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
REPEAT:

Years later, Darth Thanaton is on the verge of securing his seat on the Dark Council. But his plans are momentarily disrupted when his underling, Darth Skotia, is killed by the upstart Sith Lord Zash and her powerful new apprentice.

Source: TOR Encyclopedia

Being a powerful apprentice doesn't mean much. Nor does simply being labelled as powerful, as I've established. Do you think Nox is better than a Nightsister? I wonder.... mmm

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
When did I assert that Darth Nox reached his prime during Act I based events?

I am consistent, Nephthys. Instead of labeling me as biased, mocking my informed assessments, try to understand the greater ground realities of TOR era content.

We're not talking about prime, but you're suggesting that Nox became a Ventress or Jedi Council level fighter in a few weeks at the academy. Which directly contradicts your previous argument that such development was impossible that that short a period of time. It's inconsistent and a double standard. You're just saying whatever makes Nox look better.

I understand the content infinitely better than you do. You've never experienced it. All your knowledge comes from single sentence summations. I actually know what I'm talking about.

Originally posted by Nephthys
one of the greatest Sith Overseers in history

Wat?

Tremel is stated to be one of the most celebrated Overseers in the history of the academy in the encyclopedia. You should totes buy it if you want to understand the ground realities about him in terms of mythos standards.

I mean, he's no Kas'im. But he's still really damn good.

Ground realities ermm

It's Legend's new favorite phrase to lecture us about how we don't understand things.

(unless you don't still have him on ignore and already know this)

I don't and I do.

Can't you believe this shit? Skotia is some random Darth Douchebag and he's Dooku level? Wtf?

Your heathen ilk at work, my son.

That being said, Nox's learning curve is insane.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your heathen ilk at work, my son.

I bare no responsibility in this. When I wank a TOR character, it's because they've done more than throw someone into a wall and die.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
That being said, Nox's learning curve is insane.

True enough. Shortly after arriving on Korriban she's forced to kill a room of fellow acolytes advanced enough to conjure lightning. Her natural talent is fearsome indeed. But Legend, as always, just has to take it too far.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It's Legend's new favorite phrase to lecture us about how we don't understand things.

(unless you don't still have him on ignore and already know this)

Originally posted by Nephthys
You should totes buy it if you want to understand the ground realities about him in terms of mythos standards.

Originally posted by Nephthys
That's the smartest idea you've had all thread.