Originally posted by carthage
Its not very relevant as Bane isnt in orbalisks in this fight. But the only reason he oneshot that first one was because he was unaware. Those fodder Sith were still able to keep up with him, so any assertion that orbalisk Bane can blitz any high tier opponent should be outright dismissed in future threads
Unaware? They ambushed him. 😬 It states that Bane simply cut him down before they could react.
Wtf? I just spelt out the whole fight and how they didn't keep up with him. If you're just going to ignore what I write then theres no point wasting my time with you. Not that there was much of a point to begin with and that I'm taking you seriously right now.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Unaware? They ambushed him. 😬 It states that Bane simply cut him down before they could react.Wtf? I just spelt out the whole fight and how they didn't keep up with him. If you're just going to ignore what I write then theres no point wasting my time with you. Not that there was much of a point to begin with and that I'm taking you seriously right now.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The difference between Carthage and the other people who just ignore stuff for their era bias (won't name names but most people know who I'm referring to) is that the other people who just ignore stuff don't do so with the clear intent to piss people off, don't actively phrase things to annoy people, and actually understand the meaning of civility.
👆
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The difference between Carthage and the other people who just ignore stuff for their era bias (won't name names but most people know who I'm referring to) is that the other people who just ignore stuff don't do so with the clear intent to piss people off, don't actively phrase things to annoy people, and actually understand the meaning of civility.
@Neph Its immaterial talking about orbalisk Bane in this thread. If you want to debate Orbalisk Bane then make a thread about him. For the record Orbalisk Bane would kill this team
Again youve posted nothing for unamped Bane that puts him as faster than Fisto. Bane's perspective based quote about the rain feat is just that his own self confirmation for a feat he deemed impossible at a point in his life. In what way is that superior to Fisto dodging blaster bolts, fighting in a blur with Ventress, or fighting faster than Obi wan could track?
They're nexus feats and no they aren't. Even if Bane's striking speed was 10 strikes a second, Grievous struck faster than that who Fisto outdueled. Bane off nexus never replicated any feats he performed in POD. Fisto on the other hand reacted without too much difficulty to Grievous, Bane has nothing on Grievous speed either
Originally posted by carthage
They're nexus feats and no they aren't. Even if Bane's striking speed was 10 strikes a second, Grievous struck faster than that who Fisto outdueled. Bane off nexus never replicated any feats he performed in POD. Fisto on the other hand reacted without too much difficulty to Grievous, Bane has nothing on Grievous speed either
Just because Fisto with a style advantage beat a pre-prime Grievous who wasn't in the best physical condition does not mean he can match Bane's speed.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The rainstorm feat was not on a nexus, and it has been confirmed by the book to be superior to those other feats by a considerable margin.Just because Fisto with a style advantage beat a pre-prime Grievous who wasn't in the best physical condition does not mean he can match Bane's speed.
Again its another in universe quote from Bane that confirms his own bias, its not a canonically sound statement as its solely Bane's opinion. Unless you believe its superior to Bane in Orbalisks fighting so fast appeared to wield mulltiple sabers, its an inferior feat and is essentially Bane formińg a shield with a saber.
Also Grievous's striking speed is confirmed, he moved fast enough to overwhelm multiple Jedi at once, fought as rapidly as ROTS Kenobi, and outfought Mundi and Shaak ti. Grievous is faster than Bane
Originally posted by carthage
Also Grievous's striking speed is confirmed, he moved fast enough to overwhelm multiple Jedi at once, fought as rapidly as ROTS Kenobi, and outfought Mundi and Shaak ti. Grievous is faster than Bane
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I can argue a parity in their striking speed based on Bane's improvement since POD. As far as movement speed goes, Bane is soundly superior by a considerable margin even in POD. And Grievous being faster than Bane if that were so still doesn't prove Fisto to be faster than Bane.
Grievous strikes a twenty which Fisto defended wih moderate difficulty. Even if you were to argue (based on a nexus feat), it would still make Bane's striking speed slower than Grievous and easy for Fisto to block. Needless to say Bane never replicated his POD speed of Korriban, Lehon, or without orbalisks. The feats I posted on the first page prove Fisto is faster an youve demonstrated nothing for Bane that compares. Unamped Bane has never fought faster than his opponent could perceive, never reacted to a superior striking speed, and never even come close to replicating what I posted on page 1. If you're done lowballing and not posting feats for Bane, can we move on to how he's supposed to beat a demonstrably faster/superior duelist and Thanaton who is more or less even with him?
Fisto by dueling feats is still superior to Bane regardless of the stylistic advantage Shii Cho afforded him to Grievous. He still outfought Kenobi who was a master of Soresu, so evidently he's had no issues in spite of the styles weakness. Bane has never beaten anyone based on his own skill apart from Sirrak, he's only fought evenly with Zannah. Bane is an inferior duelist
Originally posted by carthage
Grievous strikes a twenty which Fisto defended wih moderate difficulty.
Originally posted by carthage
Even if you were to argue (based on a nexus feat), it would still make Bane's striking speed slower than Grievous and easy for Fisto to block.
The rainstorm feat, even on a nexus, would've been well beyond his capabilities to defend against while using a lightsaber and TK after successfully moving invisibly fast to other force users (who would've had their senses amped by your logic) and striking at ten times a second. Yet in DOE he achieves this feat without TK or a nexus.
Based on this I could very easily argue at least a parity in striking speed between Bane and Grievous.
Originally posted by carthage
The feats I posted on the first page prove Fisto is faster an youve demonstrated nothing for Bane that compares. Unamped Bane has never fought faster than his opponent could perceive, never reacted to a superior striking speed, and never even come close to replicating what I posted on page 1. If you're done lowballing and not posting feats for Bane,
Originally posted by carthage
can we move on to how he's supposed to beat a demonstrably faster/superior duelist
Originally posted by carthage
and Thanaton who is more or less even with him
Originally posted by carthage
Fisto by dueling feats is still superior to Bane regardless of the stylistic advantage Shii Cho afforded him to Grievous.
Originally posted by carthage
He still outfought Kenobi who was a master of Soresu, so evidently he's had no issues in spite of the styles weakness.
Originally posted by carthage
Bane has never beaten anyone based on his own skill apart from Sirrak, he's only fought evenly with Zannah. Bane is an inferior duelist
Emperordmb wrote
A single one-handed blast with the strength to incinerate a group of four people is the greatest raw destructive feat of lightning on enemies' bodies. (though of course Sidious and Vitiate have parity/superiority with their Vaapadsaber and Nyriss superiority feats/accolades
Lightning will never come into play, Fisto can absorb it with his sabers and Thanaton can deflect it. Bane's lightning has only disintegrated featless mooks and fodder characters, he's never killed any powerful force sensitives such as Fisto or Thanaton with it.
When has Fisto ever deflected lightning with a lightsaber? Come to think of it, when has Fisto ever encountered a lightning wielding opponent?What suggests the edge of Bane's lightning is negligible when Fisto has never been depicted defending against lightning, much less lightning of Bane's caliber before, and when a score on Fisto by Bane's lightning would certainly be deadly?
Likewise, I could make a better argument for Bane being able to deflect/defend against Fisto's lightsaber with his lightning by virtue of his lightning cocoon ability.
Kenobi had never encountered a lightning-wielding force sensitive, yet he was able to absorb Dooku's with a saber. Considering Bane's lightning is no different in principle, and has never broke through a powerful force sensitive's aura and killed them- this is no different. Fisto can replicate Kenobi's feat with Dooku. As for his 'lightning cocoon ability', I'd love to see him do that and get exhausted and die easier to the team. This is unlikely seeing as he's going to be fighting two force sensitives, and the time he takes to use that technique Thanaton and Fisto will be kicking his ass
And what has Thanaton done deflection wise that shows he can deflect lightning of Bane's caliber?
Force deflection is a basic technique, Bane's lightning has never oneshot a force sensitive and disintegrated him only random Drexl riders. Nothing in Bane's lightning makes it unique other than disintegrating non force sensitives
For future points I will defer to Sl for knowledge of Thanaton, as he can better defend him than I can.
The rainstorm feat... which the Darth Bane Trilogy confirms as being more impressive than moving invisibly fast to other force users and striking ten times a second, both of which are already more impressive than Fisto's speed feats. But you are almost certainly going to ignore this feat for some halfassed reason...
Your opinion Kthx
Stomping Sirak prior to becoming far greater with a lightsaber, outdueling saberstaff Kas'im, and flooring Raskta Lsu by outmaneuvering her with his unpredictability (before he retooled his style to be a lot more unpredictable) are all highly impressive feats... but you are probably going to lowball/ignore all of these feats.
The only person Bane defeated out of those three duelists was Sirrak by merit of his skill. Let me reiterate a single maneuver in a duel when he was amped/protected by armor, is not the same as beating someone by virtue of his skill. Sirrak is likewise featless compared to Kenobi, Ventress, or Grievous- and Kas'im was beating Bane until Bane used the nexus and his superior force abilities to kill him. Raskta also would've killed Bane had it not been for the Orbalisks. Either list individuals who Bane has defeated unamped or concede the point.
Likewise, who has actually managed to hold off or defeat Bane without circumstances giving them an advantage?
Considering Bane's opponents are all either featless, or are massively outweighed due to Bane's orbalisks, relying on a nexus, and the fact their team members are incompetent- this doesn't help your case.
You more or less shit on Bane at every turn, make every one in five of your topics about a character in the Darth Bane Trilogy, and frequently insult and belittle Bane and his affiliates, just for the purpose of trolling and spiting me.
Bane has no feats to suggest he can defeat Fisto in a duel, and no feats to suggest he do anything to Thanaton other than stalemate him.
Due to a stylistic advantage, and it was hardly moderate. And rewatching the fight, Grievous never even attacks with a fast paced offensive until after losing one of his arms. This would make Grievous's striking speed in that fight fifteen per second at the very best. And the one time Fisto actually got him down was with the force, not to mention the fact that Fisto was wielding an extra blade that he does not posses here.
Your fannon opinions don't count please stop using them as if they matter. Fisto defeated Grievous due to comparable if not superseding skill and his advantage due to his style. This does not negate his ability to fight. Nothing stated in the OP specifies what Fisto is equipped with. Fisto's defeat of Kenobi and Grievous are all better feats than Bane beating featless Jedi
The rainstorm feat took place off nexus, which is significantly superior (despite all of your lowballing whether you would like it to be or not) to ten strikes a second and moving invisibly fast to other force wielders (who would've had their senses amped by a nexus as per your logic).
The rainstorm feat, even on a nexus, would've been well beyond his capabilities to defend against while using a lightsaber and TK after successfully moving invisibly fast to other force users (who would've had their senses amped by your logic) and striking at ten times a second. Yet in DOE he achieves this feat without TK or a nexus.
I never asserted it was on a nexus, its irrelevant as its a plainly inferior feat to anything Fisto has done. It can't be emphasized enough that Bane never deflected every raindrop as shown here:
The wind rose to a howling gale, and the scattered drops quickly became a downpour. His body and mind united as one, he channeled the infinite power of the Force against the driving rain. Tiny clouds of hissing steam formed as his blade picked off the descending drops while Bane twisted, twirled, and contorted his body to evade those few that managed to slip through his defenses.
Bane wasn't even fast enough to deflect all of the droplets, he had to dodge them and change forms. This isn't a superior feat at all to Fisto who has dodged blaster bolts, deflected multiple blaster bolts and left afterimages, and has left trails of light. All Bane did was make an arc/shield and he still was slow and couldn't escape the rain, Fisto and Thanaton have both replicated this. Let me get that through your head, Bane wasn't fast enough to catch all the rain drops with his saber and Fisto has blaster bolts.
"Cover me!” Kit called, and dashed out. He felt the tingle before the beam struck, and skittered aside. He weaved wildly, fiercely, Form I-style improvisation applied to pure evasion. He dodged and dashed, covering ground toward the crouching family with blistering speed. Sizzling bolts missed him by bare centimeters.-The Cestus deception
Fisto is faster by order of feats
Except for the fact that that was circumstantial to his fight, as well as the fact that Grievous was not in the best physical condition due to the events earlier, and that Grievous had not reached his peak by this point.
Its irrelevant whether or not he was at his peak or not, as Grievous even before his peak is still superior to Bane. Bane has never formed a cyclone with his sabers that overwhelmed seasoned Jedi masters, never struck at 20 times a second, never crushed a Jedi into the ground, and never outfought seasoned Jedi masters with the accolades of Ki Adi Mundi or Ti. All of Bane's opponents are featless.
Kenobi wasn't a master of Soresu at the beginning of the Clone Wars.
Your opinion
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The difference between Carthage and the other people who just ignore stuff for their era bias (won't name names but most people know who I'm referring to)
It's okay, Emperor, we all know you're talking about yourself. 🙄
Can someone make a new topic so peeps can debate intellectually?
Originally posted by carthage
Lightning will never come into play, Fisto can absorb it with his sabers and Thanaton can deflect it. Bane's lightning has only disintegrated featless mooks and fodder characters, he's never killed any powerful force sensitives such as Fisto or Thanaton with it.
His lightning already has a demosntrated greater potency than the lightning of those who have already achieved these feats (ie. Nyriss and Dooku), so your entire point here is moot.
Originally posted by carthage
Kenobi had never encountered a lightning-wielding force sensitive, yet he was able to absorb Dooku's with a saber. Considering Bane's lightning is no different in principle, and has never broke through a powerful force sensitive's aura and killed them- this is no different. Fisto can replicate Kenobi's feat with Dooku.
Originally posted by carthage
As for his 'lightning cocoon ability', I'd love to see him do that and get exhausted and die easier to the team. This is unlikely seeing as he's going to be fighting two force sensitives, and the time he takes to use that technique Thanaton and Fisto will be kicking his ass
Originally posted by carthage
Force deflection is a basic technique, Bane's lightning has never oneshot a force sensitive and disintegrated him only random Drexl riders. Nothing in Bane's lightning makes it unique other than disintegrating non force sensitives
Originally posted by carthage
For future points I will defer to Sl for knowledge of Thanaton, as he can better defend him than I can.
Originally posted by carthage
Your opinion Kthx
Originally posted by carthage
The only person Bane defeated out of those three duelists was Sirrak by merit of his skill.
Originally posted by carthage
Let me reiterate a single maneuver in a duel when he was amped/protected by armor, is not the same as beating someone by virtue of his skill.
Originally posted by carthage
Sirrak is likewise featless compared to Kenobi, Ventress, or Grievous-
Not to mention that fact that Bane completely stomped Sirak and improved immensely since then even by the end of POD as per the text.
Originally posted by carthage
and Kas'im was beating Bane until Bane used the nexus and his superior force abilities to kill him.
Originally posted by carthage
Your fannon opinions don't count please stop using them as if they matter. Fisto defeated Grievous due to comparable if not superseding skill and his advantage due to his style. This does not negate his ability to fight.
I find it ironic that you call Bane out for nexuses, even when Lehon has a shown negligible effect on his fighting prowess, yet you completely claim that Fisto's own advantages do not negate his feats.
Originally posted by carthage
Nothing stated in the OP specifies what Fisto is equipped with.
Originally posted by carthage
Fisto is faster by order of feats
Originally posted by carthage
Its irrelevant whether or not he was at his peak or not, as Grievous even before his peak is still superior to Bane. Bane has never struck at 20 times a second
Originally posted by carthage
Your opinion