Darth Bane Vs Thanaton and Kit Fisto

I typed a response and then my computer lost connection. Again Bane's lightning has never disintegrated a force sensitive. Nothing suggests it can, as Bane has never hit a force sensitive with it and disintegrated them aside from fodder Drexl riders.

Fisto doesn't need a stylistic advantage against Bane, Bane has never fought against a Shii cho master. He wouldn't know how to respond and he'd still be pressed by Thanaton's force abilities and Fisto's superior speed and dueling ability.

I find it ironic that you call Bane out for nexuses, even when Lehon has a shown negligible effect on his fighting prowess, yet you completely claim that Fisto's own advantages do not negate his feats.

Yet he still utilized it to kill Kas'im lol. Bane isn't aware of Shii cho, and Fisto still is an adept at Ataru and is a superior duelist to Bane in martial ability and by feats.

No. You only come to this conclusion by completely lowballing all of Bane's feats. Moving invisibly fast to other force wielders prior to his speed peak is easily more impressive than dodging blasterbolts. Not to mention that Bane has the feat of "instantly" covering ten meters for what it's worth.

I've already debunked the rain feat, and Bane only moved 'invisibly fast' on Korriban and never replicated that feat at any point afterward. Bane's speed, power, and strength all weren't enough to defeat Zannah, who is inferior in skill and feats to Fisto

Grievous hadn't been confirmed as reaching those speeds prior to ROTS, and since he was missing an arm in his fight with Fisto, so at the very best he was only landing 15 a second.

Which is still faster than Kas'im, Bane, or Zannah unamped and off nexus

And saberstaff Kas'im. And Zannah.

He utilized Lehon's darkside energies to kill Kas'im hence a nexus feat, and he only fought evenly in DOE against Zannah and lost altogether.

Considering that Bane is armed here, he won't need to fall back on that ability enough to exhaust himself on it, if he even needs to fall back on it at all. And it also really doesn't take much time to throw up, considering that he instantly threw it up while Zannah was in mid-strike.

You're right he's going to be outdueled, pressed, and eventually lose.

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
Who wins? who dies?

You should specify which version of Bane this is by the way.

Originally posted by carthage
I typed a response and then my computer lost connection. Again Bane's lightning has never disintegrated a force sensitive. Nothing suggests it can, as Bane has never hit a force sensitive with it and disintegrated them aside from fodder Drexl riders.

Originally posted by carthage
Fisto doesn't need a stylistic advantage against Bane, Bane has never fought against a Shii cho master.

Fisto likewise has never fought against a Form V master, and Bane has several elements of his fighting style that make him very unpredictable.

If anything Bane's fighting style would give Fisto more trouble than his would Bane.

Originally posted by carthage
Yet he still utilized it to kill Kas'im lol. Bane isn't aware of Shii cho

Originally posted by carthage
and Fisto still is an adept at Ataru

Originally posted by carthage
I've already debunked the rain feat,

Originally posted by carthage
and Bane only moved 'invisibly fast' on Korriban and never replicated that feat at any point afterward.

Originally posted by carthage
Bane's speed, power, and strength all weren't enough to defeat Zannah

Originally posted by carthage
Which is still faster than Kas'im, Bane, or Zannah unamped and off nexus

Originally posted by carthage
He utilized Lehon's darkside energies to kill Kas'im hence a nexus feat, and he only fought evenly in DOE against Zannah and lost altogether.

Originally posted by carthage
You're right he's going to be outdueled, pressed, and eventually lose.

And Bane's lightning still has a greater demonstrated potency than those who have.

That doesn't change the fact that nothing supports your claim that it would damage Fisto if/when he puts up a shield/utilizes a saber when nothing in its properties differentiates it from Dooku other than destructive potency. It can still be absorbed by a saber

Shii-cho is the basics... that's not exactly gonna catch Bane off guard. Plus Kas'im was also a master of Shii-Cho having confirmed mastery and perfection of all seven forms under his belt. Shii-Cho is also not well specialized for single combat.

Its still a randomized fighting style which coupled with Fisto's superior speed makes it more palatable for a victory than vice versa. The only advantage Bane has over Fisto is strength, and that's marginal at best as his strength meant nothing to Zannah as he could never outduel her based on it

Fisto likewise has never fought against a Form V master, and Bane has several elements of his fighting style that make him very unpredictable.

Not unpredictable enough to lose to his apprentice, and never beat anyone by its own merit

If anything Bane's fighting style would give Fisto more trouble than his would Bane.

Bane's dealing with someone who is faster and more skilled attacks from all sides randomized, and Thanaton who will be pressuring him with force attacks. Bane isn't fast enough to respond to Fisto in a timely fashion, and protect himself from Thanaton's lightning, illusions, or spells.

Considering that it was beyond Bane's ability, even with him using TK in conjunction with his lightsaber skills, blocking the majority of them with his blade and dodging the "few" that managed to slip by his blade, and the fact that the text says that defending against them was beyond his ability by that point, the feat in DOE still counts as him defending against it. You have debunked nothing.

Who cares if he was utilizing TK, he still had to change forms, dodge bolts that broke through his defense, and he was still not fast enough to evade all of the drops. You've still not provided any off nexus feats other than the rain feat, which as I've demonstrated is clearly inferior to Fisto who fought faster than Obi wan could perceive, dodge blaster bolts, etc. If you keep bringing it up without any superior feats, it will just get annoying.

He did defeat her in the martial portion of their duel, so this point is moot as well.

He didn't break her defense, he lost an arm, and he did this all while not drawing on Ambria's nexus like a retard. Zannah got out of that duel looking better than he did. He lost accept the fact.

Considering DOE Bane>Nexus POD Bane this point is once again moot.

You've not demonstrated this sufficiently, but then again its not that big of a leap to believe that.

I was referring to Kas'im prior to utilizing Jar'kai, and Bane did outduel Zannah in the lightsaber portion of their fight and only barely lost when she drew heavily on the nexus for an unblockable trump card that she would not have had otherwise.

Bane still could've drawn on the nexus to boost his abilities additionally which he failed to do. Zannah has zero speed feats whereas Bane had at the very least moved his saber fast enough to form a shield, there is no reason why he couldn't used the nexus to supplement his already obvious physical advantages. He didn't and paid the price.

Originally posted by carthage
That doesn't change the fact that nothing supports your claim that it would damage Fisto when nothing in its properties differentiates it from Dooku other than destructive potency. It can still be absorbed by a saber

Originally posted by carthage
The only advantage Bane has over Fisto is strength, and that's marginal at best as his strength meant nothing to Zannah as he could never outduel her based on it

Originally posted by carthage
Not unpredictable enough to lose to his apprentice, and never beat anyone by its own merit

And Bane was already unpredictable enough to catch Raskta Lsu off guard, and Raskta Lsu was the Jedi Order's best duelist, she was invigorated with battle meditation, and echani are experts at predicting their opponents moves. This was also prior to Bane making his style a lot more unpredictable.

Bane's style contains the unpredictability of Juyo, unpredictability based on him using the inertia power to alter his momentum, unpredictability based on the unfamiliar angles afforded to him by his curved hilt, and unpredictability in his tactics where he frequently uses tactical misdirection to great effect.

All you have for Fisto's unpredictability is that he knows Shii-Cho.

Originally posted by carthage
Who cares if he was utilizing TK, he still had to change forms, dodge bolts that broke through his defense, and he was still not fast enough to evade all of the drops. You've still not provided any off nexus feats other than the rain feat, which as I've demonstrated is clearly inferior to Fisto who fought faster than Obi wan could perceive, dodge blaster bolts, etc. If you keep bringing it up without any superior feats, it will just get annoying.

Originally posted by carthage
He didn't break her defense, he lost an arm, and he did this all while not drawing on Ambria's nexus like a retard. Zannah got out of that duel looking better than he did. He lost accept the fact.

It would also be hard to spend the time and effort to draw that heavily on a nexus when there's a bunch of unblockable tendrils flying at you that can disintegrate anything they come into contact with.

Originally posted by carthage
Zannah has zero speed feats whereas Bane had at the very least moved his saber fast enough to form a shield,

And if Fisto fails to block it then he's done for. Plus I'm not quite sure how he'd handle a force storm.

Nah. Again there is no evidence it'd oneshot a force sensitive, severely injure yeah, but there is nothing in its properties to suggest it cant be absorbed by a saber like Dooku's. To summarize, it's more powerful than Dooku's, but Bane has never overwhelmed a powerful force sensitive with it and nothing about it suggests it can overwhelm a lightsaber. Lets move on, shall we? As for a force storm, we only have Bane's showing on Korriban in POD, and it did nothing other than dishevel books and shake shelves.

1. Bane's strength feats definitely exceed Fisto's
2. Zannah tooled her style entirely based on defense and redirection of power blows.
3. Bane did defeat her in the saber portion of their duel.

Zannah had let time pass sufficiently to where Bane was older and weaker and even with his superior strength showings, he was still unable to break her defense regardless of whatever personal theories you have on her style.

It was possible Zannah had noticed his deteriorating physical abilities and had simply decided to wait.

Fisto is faster and as shown in his fight with Grievous (whose stomped a Jedi into the ground and torn durasteel), that strength is no issue with his fighting style. If Zannah can defend against Bane's offense Fisto can. Nothing suggests he defeated her in sabers either, he failed to overwhelm her defense and ultimately lose all out.

Except the rain feat is demonstrably superior to greater feats than Fisto has achieved.

Your unsubstantiated opinion, and you still have yet to bring any unamped feats for Bane fighting faster than force sensitives can perceive. Fisto is faster I've demonstrated this, lets move on.

And Bane was already unpredictable enough to catch Raskta Lsu off guard, and Raskta Lsu was the Jedi Order's best duelist, she was invigorated with battle meditation, and echani are experts at predicting their opponents moves. This was also prior to Bane making his style a lot more unpredictable.

Bane's style contains the unpredictability of Juyo, unpredictability based on him using the inertia power to alter his momentum, unpredictability based on the unfamiliar angles afforded to him by his curved hilt, and unpredictability in his tactics where he frequently uses tactical misdirection to great effect.

Again nothing that beats Fisto's defeat of superior opponents

All you have for Fisto's unpredictability is that he knows Shii-Cho.

And all you have to support Bane's "unpredictability" is a showing when he was amped, protected by orbalisks, and fighting a physically weaker opponent.

Bane beat her in the saber portion of that duel... accept that fact.

He fought evenly with her all out, lost the duel, and never beat anyone by virtue of his own skill without an amp, without orbalisks, or anything else. 👆

It would also be hard to spend the time and effort to draw that heavily on a nexus when there's a bunch of unblockable tendrils flying at you that can disintegrate anything they come into contact with.

Nah not really Zannah has zero speed feats or anything to show that she is or was faster than Bane. Unamped Bane was still successfully able to dodge all of her attacks while drugged, with a nexus he only lost due to his own incompetence. She was even tired from drawing on Ambria for the tendrils, and yet Bane still lost even with multiple advantages on his side. Pathetic.

Originally posted by carthage
Zannah had let time pass sufficiently to where Bane was older and weaker and even with his superior strength showings, he was still unable to break her defense regardless of whatever personal theories you have on her style.

Originally posted by carthage
Nothing suggests he defeated her in sabers either, he failed to overwhelm her defense

Originally posted by carthage
Your unsubstantiated opinion,

Originally posted by carthage
Lol Bane was amped by the orbalisks, and was in no danger at any point in losing to Raskta with his armor and amp from Darzu's fortress. Again this doesn't prove Bane is "unpredictable" it just shows he can use his superior bulk and amp to beat a weak opponent.

Originally posted by carthage
Again nothing that beats Fisto's defeat of superior opponents

Originally posted by carthage
And all you have to support Bane's "unpredictability" is a showing when he was amped, protected by orbalisks, and fighting a physically weaker opponent.

Originally posted by carthage
Nah not really Zannah has zero speed feats or anything to show that she is or was faster than Bane. Unamped Bane was still successfully able to dodge all of her attacks while drugged, with a nexus he only lost due to his own incompetence. She was even tired from drawing on Ambria for the tendrils, and yet Bane still lost even with multiple advantages on his side. Pathetic.

Originally posted by carthage
@Neph Its immaterial talking about orbalisk Bane in this thread. If you want to debate Orbalisk Bane then make a thread about him. For the record Orbalisk Bane would kill this team

Again youve posted nothing for unamped Bane that puts him as faster than Fisto. Bane's perspective based quote about the rain feat is just that his own self confirmation for a feat he deemed impossible at a point in his life. In what way is that superior to Fisto dodging blaster bolts, fighting in a blur with Ventress, or fighting faster than Obi wan could track?

Orbalisk Bane isn't twice as fast as regular Bane, so that's a pointless distinction. DoE Bane is almost as, equal to or faster than Orbalisk Bane. But still, since the feat I mentioned is twice as fast as anything Fisto has done, and since the Orbalisks don't make nearly that much of a difference Bane is still faster than Fisto.

However, I never intended to argue Bane's speed with you and this will be the last post of mine on the matter. You've proven yourself to be worthless trash in all threads concerning Bane. Theres no point arguing the point with someone so hideously biased and/or willfully ignorant on the matter.

Originally posted by Nephthys

However, I never intended to argue Bane's speed with you and this will be the last post of mine on the matter. You've proven yourself to be worthless trash in all threads concerning Bane. Theres no point arguing the point with someone so hideously biased and/or willfully ignorant on the matter.

👆

Well done, carthage.

Approving of carthage should fill you with shame.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Orbalisk Bane isn't twice as fast as regular Bane, so that's a pointless distinction. DoE Bane is almost as, equal to or faster than Orbalisk Bane. But still, since the feat I mentioned is twice as fast as anything Fisto has done, and since the Orbalisks don't make nearly that much of a difference Bane is still faster than Fisto.

However, I never intended to argue Bane's speed with you and this will be the last post of mine on the matter. You've proven yourself to be worthless trash in all threads concerning Bane. Theres no point arguing the point with someone so hideously biased and/or willfully ignorant on the matter.

No he isn't and again Bane never replicated the speed feats he did in DOE hence why Emperor has had to invoke the rain feat and try to pass it off as "superior", in spite of my constant debunking of it. Bane with Orbalisks fought faster than Zannah could perceive, and fought fast enough to react to battle med-enhanced Jedi- yet you are deliberately ignoring his own admission of his decline in physical ability and the fact that he could barely deflect rain drops

The one who is biased is the one who is trying to pass of Bane's enhanced feats as things he's legitimately capable of, in spite of his admitted physical decline and in spite of his utter failure to replicare those feats.

But still, since the feat I mentioned is twice as fast as anything Fisto has done, and since the Orbalisks don't make nearly that much of a difference Bane is still faster than Fisto

They were amped feats and your own opinion doesn't make Bane's unamped feats faster than Fisto

Orbalisk Bane isn't twice as fast as regular Bane, so that's a pointless distinction. DoE Bane is almost as, equal to or faster than Orbalisk Bane. But still, since the feat I mentioned is twice as fast as anything Fisto has done, and since the Orbalisks don't make nearly that much of a difference Bane is still faster than Fisto.

If he's twice as fast you and Emperor have failed to prove it, you'd have to believe failing to dodge rain drops and moving your saber fast enough to form a shield is superior to Fisto's feats (Fisto has also moved his saber fast enough to form a shield). Again stop posting your worthless opinion, and post feats for DOE Bane that beats Fisto fighting faster than Obi wan can perceive, dodging blaster bolts, and creating after images, webs of light, and other high speed feats that Bane has never replicated.

"Form three allows you to parry incoming attacks with minimal effort," he told her... Had she tried to meet it head-on, the strength of his attack would have driven her own weapon back into her, or knocked the lightsaber from her hand. Instead she clipped his blade with a glancing contact, rerouting it so that it continued its downward arc at an angle, passing harmlessly a few centimeters from her shoulder."- ROT
No that pretty much is her style. Not just "personal theories."

And this does what to prove Bane can simultaneously fight Thanaton and Fisto?

Bane was forcing her to give ground the entire time, he broke and cracked several of her ribs, and Zannah resorted to her force powers after admitting that she would not survive another bout in a lightsaber duel with Bane. Bane outdueled her.

Bane failed to overwhelm her in sabers, lost the duel, and ended up losing his life. Fisto is faster and attacks from wider angles than Zannah, invoking the fact he can beat his less skilled apprentice doesn't help you in this thread. Bane's got no other dueling feats to suggest he can defeat two high tiered fighters like Thanaton and Fisto other than fighting evenly with Zannah

Not when the text supports it

The text supports Bane's own confirmation bias and acknowledgement he couldn't do it, not that its a superior feat to anything he did with Orbalisks which it plainly isn't. If you really think failing to dodge rain drops and blocking them is more impressive than dodging blaster bolts, fighting faster than force sensitives can perceive (which Bane did with orbalisks), and generating trails of light then I am done proving you wrong. Again Bane's own opinion and reconfirmation doesn't make it a superior feat. Try again.

Considering that that entire maneuver was based on him outmaneuvering her and tricking her into thinking he was doing something else when he really wasn't, yes that is a feat for his skill and unpredictability.

While amped and sped up well beyond what he's capable of, simple maneuvers and feints don't prove Bane is more "unpredictable". They simply mean he utilizes them in his fighting, which for Fisto the entire basis for his style. This point is worthless and again Bane was amped by the orbalisks and nexus

He still caught her off guard with unpredictability, and it's still more than Fisto has in regards to his demonstrated unpredictability. Stylistically or in showings, Bane has demonstrated a lot more unpredictability than Fisto has.

So using basic maneuvers and feints that average fighters use in their matches makes Bane s00per unpredictable? Lol ok. Again Bane was amped and in no danger to Raskta at all time during that fight. The fact he was able to grab her and throw her down was simply due to his protection and invulnerability, had he try to do that without orbalisks he would've died. Again another nexus feat that doesn't help your case.

Bane was dominating that entire fight up until the tendrils, and considering that Grand Master Luke at one point got felled by less powerful tendrils, there is no shame in falling to tendrils. Especially when the tendrils instantly disintegrate anything they come into contact with and are essentially unblockable. It took everything Zannah had plus heavily drawing on a nexus for an unblockable attack of great destructive potency for her to beat Bane, and even then Bane dominated the entire fight prior to that and even almost beat her there. There is no shame in that defeat.

There is shame in that you still haven't refuted my point ever as to why Bane didn't draw on the nexus himself. He also lost in spite of multiple physical advantages, and your example sucks. Kun was a weakened Sith spirit, and Luke was being attacked on a darkside nexus, by a student with a powerful force connection, and Kun's spirit at once. Without a nexus Luke would've decimated Durron and Kun, with a nexus Bane failed to kill his incompetent apprentice. Troll harder

Originally posted by carthage
And this does what to prove Bane can simultaneously fight Thanaton and Fisto?

Originally posted by carthage
The text supports Bane's own confirmation bias and acknowledgement he couldn't do it, not that its a superior feat to anything he did with Orbalisks which it plainly isn't. If you really think failing to dodge rain drops and blocking them is more impressive than dodging blaster bolts, fighting faster than force sensitives can perceive (which Bane did with orbalisks), and generating trails of light then I am done proving you wrong. Again Bane's own opinion and reconfirmation doesn't make it a superior feat. Try again.

Originally posted by carthage
While amped and sped up well beyond what he's capable of, simple maneuvers and feints don't prove Bane is more "unpredictable". They simply mean he utilizes them in his fighting, which for Fisto the entire basis for his style. This point is worthless and again Bane was amped by the orbalisks and nexus

Your concession is accepted, and like I said I never actually expected you to:

A. Post unamped feats of people Bane has actually defeated without orbalisks.

B. Provide speed feats that show unamped Bane as faster than Fisto

You really failed miserably in this argument, and instead resorted to calling me "biased" when all I did was refute your points, offer feats for Fisto which you either lowballed or had no comparable feats to Bane, and never acknowledged how Bane would fight two comparable force sensitives.

Except Bane still managed to catch Lsu off guard with unpredictability when she very very clearly failed to predict his attack, as clearly shown in the text. And Bane further made his style more unpredictable. And it's still more showings for Bane's unpredictability than Fisto's. And if you are really going to argue Fisto is more unpredictably just because he uses Shii-Cho, then I'm done here as well.

He was amped and never in any danger of getting outmanuevered by Raskta. So what if he brought her down using a simple grapple technique? Fisto fought from all angles against Grievous and outdueled him, and fought faster than Obi wan could perceive against a droid that was specifically made to kill Jedi as well as in a duel of their own. You have nothing on his feats, go cry with Neph in a corner

I win again

Originally posted by carthage
Your concession is accepted, and like I said I never actually expected you to:

A. Post unamped feats of people Bane has actually defeated without orbalisks.

B. Provide speed feats that show unamped Bane as faster than Fisto

You really failed miserably in this argument, and instead resorted to calling me "biased" when all I did was refute your points, offer feats for Fisto which you either lowballed or had no comparable feats to Bane, and never acknowledged how Bane would fight two comparable force sensitives.

I win again

I'm done with you. Say hello to my ignore list.

I've successfully outargued you in this thread and beat you in other arguments relating to Banite characters. You putting me on your ignore list is just a sign you can't win arguments with people based on simple showings. Your concession is accepted, again child.

Originally posted by carthage
I've successfully outargued you in this thread and beat you in other arguments relating to Banite characters. You putting me on your ignore list is just a sign you can't win arguments with people based on simple showings. Your concession is accepted, again child.

And it seems you like to waste it...

I responded well even when you veered off with unimportant tangents, utilized nexus feats when I plainly asked for unamped feats, and tried to pass of simple grapples as signs Bane is an "unpredictable duelist" LAWL, as well as essentially try to convince people that dodging and blocking rain drops is more impressive than fighting faster than hyperattuned force sensitives and dodging blaster bolts.

I got a really good laugh out of your defense of the rain feat though