The entirety of the Twilight and Under World verse vs

Originally posted by Kotor3
So basically you are going to keep saying I haven't watch a movie that you yourself have a mistakenly given powers to the wrong character and continue to not answer my questions. Hulk has never fought Vampires so obviously I can't post a feat of him doing so. So keep your lame argument that he can't smash the ground with multiple enemies. An assumption that you can't obviously back up.

Thanks for answering my question about Jasper.

So your basic argument is the Vamps are numerous and fast. Great. How many Vamps equal Hulk? Then you have Abomination and Thor. How many Vamps do they equal? There are only certain Vamps that are even worth mentioning.

Hulk was smashing numerous enemies in Avengers. Thor for melee attack can move his hammer at amazing speed to the point that the hammer is almost not visible as shown in the first Thor movie against the Frost Giants.

You haven't mentioned one feat. I agree to disagree with your lame argument.

I'm not asking you to post a vid of Hulk fighting against Vamps, I'm asking you to post a vid of him stomping the ground and disabling multiple attackers. That's a fair request.

And when have I gotten a vamp's powers wrong?

Basing from Edward's tree uprooting feat I'm tempted to say that he's as strong as Thor. I mean, what has Thor's best strength feat been? But since I'm a Thor fan, let's go ahead and say 3 vamps are equal to Thor in strength. Which means what, 6-10 vamps should be equal to Hulk's strength? You have hundreds of vamps in this fight.

And you keep dodging the fact that they have superspeed. Hulk had trouble hitting Thor, heck he couldn't even hit Blonsky. You can't act like the superspeed isn't a huge factor in this fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
I'm not asking you to post a vid of Hulk fighting against Vamps, I'm asking you to post a vid of him stomping the ground and disabling multiple attackers. That's a fair request.

I see why you are choosing this because you feel the Vamps hits can have a good effect on the Hulk and Team.

I don't agree. I feel only a few of the top ones would have any significant effect.

Hulk has shown the ability but you want to excuse it from being used since he hasn't shown it one screen where as you cannot not state one instance in which Jasper performed his ability in battle.

If you want to go that route then this discussion is going to become really stupid.

Still, I cannot recall an instance in which the Vamps are performing their abilities while moving. As stated before they all seem to have to concentrate and stand still while performing there abilities.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And when have I gotten a vamp's powers wrong?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Basing from Edward's tree uprooting feat I'm tempted to say that he's as strong as Thor. I mean, what has Thor's best strength feat been? But since I'm a Thor fan, let's go ahead and say 3 vamps are equal to Thor in strength. Which means what, 6-10 vamps should be equal to Hulk's strength? You have hundreds of vamps in this fight.

Originally posted by FrothByte
And you keep dodging the fact that they have superspeed. Hulk had trouble hitting Thor, heck he couldn't even hit Blonsky. You can't act like the superspeed isn't a huge factor in this fight.

You seem to fought that if Jasper cannot keep Hulk calm, (which I don't believe he can with the Hulk constantly getting hit) hitting the Hulk and making him miss hits will only irritate him and fuel his anger.

Originally posted by Kotor3
He doesn't have one and you know that. It still doesn't prove that he cannot. He has been shown on screen to make sound waves and crush the ground. There is no reason to assume that he cannot do so if there are more than one opponent.

I see why you are choosing this because you feel the Vamps hits can have a good effect on the Hulk and Team.

I don't agree. I feel only a few of the top ones would have any significant effect.

Hulk has shown the ability but you want to excuse it from being used since he hasn't shown it one screen where as you cannot not state one instance in which Jasper performed his ability in battle.

If you want to go that route then this discussion is going to become really stupid.

Still, I cannot recall an instance in which the Vamps are performing their abilities while moving. As stated before they all seem to have to concentrate and stand still while performing there abilities.

You did assign or link Jasper's abilities to that of Jane's brother. Just because I watch the garbage movie one time doesn't mean I did not watch it.

I feel you are downplaying Thor's strength a lot as well as the Hulk's. Vamps vary in strength. Thor contended with Hulk while holding back. Once again I don't think you are giving Thor or Hulk enough credit. Hulk flung a tank like it was rope.

Yes the speed is a factor. However, the difference is I don't see it like you do in which the Hulk would not be able to hit one of them. Hulk is not slow and they would have to get close to him to hit him.

You seem to fought that if Jasper cannot keep Hulk calm, (which I don't believe he can with the Hulk constantly getting hit) hitting the Hulk and making him miss hits will only irritate him and fuel his anger.

So you are assigning a feat to Hulk which he has no feats of doing in the movie. And yet you are asking for proof that Jasper can calm Hulk down while in the middle of a fight. Double standard much? Asking for proof of a feat is a valid request. Either provide some proof or it is invalid.

And FYI, Jasper affects emotions as soon as he walks into a room. While talking, while eating, etc.

I never claimed that Jane's brother will calm Hulk down by messing with his emotions. I said he will calm Hulk down, and when I asked to clarify I said he would do so by sensory deprivation.

Yes, vamp's vary in strength, with Edward stating he was one of the weaker ones. It was also stated that newly born vampires are some of the strongest vampires. The new vamps are numerous in the Twiverse.

I think you're underestimating the vampire's strength and their numbers. I'm still waiting for you to provide proof that Hulk can survive getting swarmed by 2 dozen vamps. Actually I'll make it easier for you. Provide proof that he can overpower a dozen vampires, considering that these vamps are at least as strong as Edward who can uproot a tree.

Then maybe you can provide a strength feat from Thor that can rival that tree pushing feat. Then again, you don't seem capable of posting any feats but just continue to speculate.

And as for the speed, well, Hulk is fast for his size but couldn't even hit Blonsky who only had enhanced speed and reflexes. The vampires have true superspeed, able to move fast enough that they can perform complex maneouvers all in a blur. You have provided zero evidence to show that Hulk can keep up with them.

^^^^^^ 👆 👆

I think people are forgetting that this is 2 whole universes. I'd wager these guys get overwhelmed even if you clone team 1 so it's doubles of thor and such. 2 universes.. That's a WHOLE LOT OF SPEED AND STRENGTH. Forget hulk overpowering 2 dozen vamps. He will be swarmed by more than thousands (millions?). Tbh the thread is spite the more you sit and think about it. Ronan goes down first being swarmed within minutes. Then thor eventually just gets pinned due to sheer numbers I feel. You can argue the merits of hulk taking on few dozen twi vamps all day but..thousands? all with ten times greater speed and decent strength? Newborns? Not to mention the ancients and heavy hitters of the underworld universe jumping in the dog pile? Eh.

Just want to point out, in relation to Vamps having to always stand still and concentrate to use their abilities... That's not true. Alice, for example, was shown using her precog in the middle of a sparring match with Jasper. And it was still remarked that this made her someone difficult to deal with in a fight, IIRC.

Oh, and as for Jasper himself, it was shown that he actually has to make a conscious effort NOT to constantly manipulate the emotions of those around him. And he was actually one of the few vampires who could affect Bella, IIRC, even with her immunity shield thing. Also, he could stalemate Edward in a fight, despite the latter's telepathy (though he admitted that he couldn't beat him, precisely due to the fact that Edward can read his mind in combat).

Originally posted by FrothByte
So you are assigning a feat to Hulk which he has no feats of doing in the movie. And yet you are asking for proof that Jasper can calm Hulk down while in the middle of a fight. Double standard much? Asking for proof of a feat is a valid request. Either provide some proof or it is invalid.

Oh he's smashed the ground and clapped his hands alright, I just don't recall him smashing the ground strong enough to incapacitate multiple opponents - since that's what you're claiming he can do. I'm not asking you to provide proof that he fought vampires, I'm asking you to provide proof that he can do what you're claiming he can do. Otherwise you're just using no-limits fallacy.
Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

I've also answered you regarding Jasper already. Jasper can affect emotions as soon as he enters a room, as soon as anyone is near him. He doesn't even need to concentrate on it. Check Vault's response for further clarification. So yes, he can use it in combat, especially if all he really needs to do is avoid Hulks attacks all the while working to keep him calm.

I noticed you completely sidestepped my question on how Hulk can stop getting overpowered by dozens of vampires. Can I assume that means you concede?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Oh he's smashed the ground and clapped his hands alright, I just don't recall him smashing the ground strong enough to incapacitate multiple opponents - since that's what you're claiming he can do. I'm not asking you to provide proof that he fought vampires, I'm asking you to provide proof that he can do what you're claiming he can do. Otherwise you're just using no-limits fallacy.
Stop being so deliberately obtuse.

I've also answered you regarding Jasper already. Jasper can affect emotions as soon as he enters a room, as soon as anyone is near him. He doesn't even need to concentrate on it. Check Vault's response for further clarification. So yes, he can use it in combat, especially if all he really needs to do is avoid Hulks attacks all the while working to keep him calm.

I noticed you completely sidestepped my question on how Hulk can stop getting overpowered by dozens of vampires. Can I assume that means you concede?

In each of the video below (since this is composite Hulk) there are scenes were hulk is getting hit and the hits and the sight of his opponent adds to his anger and increases his strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYt4FXho0j0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDxrPuDB_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdvKBogo_g

For me personally, you have to be at Reeves Superman strength in my opinion in order to overpower the Hulk.

Two: Jasper in every battle scene ran into battle. His ability did not seem to give him any added advantage. But lets say he can use his ability while fighting simultaneously. This brings me to my point that if the Vamps are attacking Hulk when his emotions are being calm then that would only counter anything Jasper would do since the attacks would make Hulk anger.

Three: The Vamps in underworld as well as Twilight vary in strength. Especially Underworld where age is a factor. So no matter how many you throw at Hulk, Thor or Abomination only a few of them really matter. The rest would get destroyed quickly. That brings me to my Third point that most of the Vamps would be nothing but distractions and would not be effective in this battle.

Four: Hulk has thrown tanks like toys, Thor has contended with Hulk while holding back and Hulk has strangled Abomination. Hulk skin has taken missiles and bits from mutated animals.

My point is this battle is really only between a few people. The rest of the Vamps are nothing but distractions. So I see this as a battle.

Side point I have no argument for you equating three Vamps to Hulk's or Thor's strength. I say Hulk equals the strength of 10 Selena's or more and that is a starting point.

Originally posted by Kotor3
Lets put this into perspective. First I never side step the question about being overpowered. If you read my response you would have noticed that I stated specifically that Hulk getting hit would only increase his anger making him more powerful. It would not work to the advantage for the Vamps.

In each of the video below (since this is composite Hulk) there are scenes were hulk is getting hit and the hits and the sight of his opponent adds to his anger and increases his strength.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYt4FXho0j0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJDxrPuDB_U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMdvKBogo_g

For me personally, you have to be at Reeves Superman strength in my opinion in order to overpower the Hulk.

Two: Jasper in every battle scene ran into battle. His ability did not seem to give him any added advantage. But lets say he can use his ability while fighting simultaneously. This brings me to my point that if the Vamps are attacking Hulk when his emotions are being calm then that would only counter anything Jasper would do since the attacks would make Hulk anger.

Three: The Vamps in underworld as well as Twilight vary in strength. Especially Underworld where age is a factor. So no matter how many you throw at Hulk, Thor or Abomination only a few of them really matter. The rest would get destroyed quickly. That brings me to my Third point that most of the Vamps would be nothing but distractions and would not be effective in this battle.

Four: Hulk has thrown tanks like toys, Thor has contended with Hulk while holding back and Hulk has strangled Abomination. Hulk skin has taken missiles and bits from mutated animals.

My point is this battle is really only between a few people. The rest of the Vamps are nothing but distractions. So I see this as a battle.

Side point I have no argument for you equating three Vamps to Hulk's or Thor's strength. I say Hulk equals the strength of 10 Selena's or more and that is a starting point.

1. Hulk may get angrier as he gets hit but he also gets hurt. Abom showed that with enough hits Hulk isn't able to get angry enough to counter getting nearly knocked out. Hulk's "getting stronger as he gets angrier" isn't linear. You don't just keep adding strength in proportion to the number of hits he takes. It also takes him time to grow in strength. A couple dozen vamps swarming him will overpower him before he has a chance to get angry enough.

2. You forget that they also have a vampire who can see the future. That's a huge advantage which will tell them how best to deal with Hulk. If it shows that the best strategy to do that is for no vamps to engage Hulk and for Jasper to simply try and calm him down while dodging his attacks then that's what will happen. The team has no answer at all for this precog advantage.

3. Yes vampire strength varies, however, the strongest of them are the newborns and they just so happen to be the most numerous as well. Which means majority of the vampire grunts that will be attacking will have the most physical strength.

4. I never questioned Hulk's strength. But you seem to underestimate the vampire's strength. While none of them can toss a tank like Hulk did, uprooting a tree isn't that far behind. Heck, that monster poodle in Hulk 2003 couldn't even break through a car's windshield and Hulk had trouble with 3 of them. Could you image what 100 vampires would do to Hulk?

You seem to be trying to find a way to diminish the impact of numbers here. Your points would carry more weight if the fodder were all weak and easily destroyed. But each vampire is not only very strong and tough in their own right, they're also ridiculously fast. It would be like a barracuda taking on a school of piranha.

Originally posted by FrothByte
But each vampire is not only very strong and tough in their own right, they're also ridiculously fast. It would be like a barracuda taking on a school of piranha.

Yeah, that's the issue: ALL of the Twivamps are super strong and super fast. We've seen speed, reaction, and agility feats from vamps like James, Edward, Alice, Aro, and Jasper - from about all the Twivamps actually - that outclass anyone on the team. And the werewolves like Jacob. And the newborns from Eclipse. Plus, they're working with Underworld characters like Michael, Viktor, Selene, Markus, William, Lucian, etc., who, if nothing else, are extremely numerous as well and, at worst, are above average fodder that can distract and tussle with the team until the big dogs from the Twilight verse put everyone down.

Also, don't know if anyone mentioned him yet, but Alec is the Volturi vampire that has the sensory deprivation powers. From Twilight Wikia:

"Alec can create a mist or fog which upon contact with someone paralyzes them and cuts off all, or some of their senses as he desires. This ability does not reach full effect instantly, as Jane's ability does, but creeps upon the victim. In the movie, he channels the power through his hands; it takes the form of a visible black smoke that slowly moves toward his target, though he can retract it with his mind. In Breaking Dawn, Alec tries to cut off the Cullen's and their witnesses senses. It appeared as a mist, but had no effect on them due to Bella's shield."

Combine the numbers with their accompanying stats (especially speed and reflexes) from both universes with Alec's sensory dep., Jane's pain illusion, Edward's telepathy, and Alice's precog, PLUS Thor having to fight melee, this fight is spite against the Marvel crew.

Ronan with the gem = death for the two universes.

Thor having the ability to fly and spam AoE lightning and ground slams, and the team has a chance. With the current stips, no way.

Originally posted by John Murdoch
Yeah, that's the issue: ALL of the Twivamps are super strong and super fast. We've seen speed, reaction, and agility feats from vamps like James, Edward, Alice, Aro, and Jasper - from about all the Twivamps actually - that outclass anyone on the team. And the werewolves like Jacob. And the newborns from Eclipse. Plus, they're working with Underworld characters like Michael, Viktor, Selene, Markus, William, Lucian, etc., who, if nothing else, are extremely numerous as well and, at worst, are above average fodder that can distract and tussle with the team until the big dogs from the Twilight verse put everyone down.

None of them are strong enough to do any physical damage to the likes of Hulk or Thor.

Strength also does vary, yep: random featless Underworld vamp or Twilight vampire are getting one shotted by Thor or Hulk.

"Alec can create a mist or fog which upon contact with someone paralyzes them and cuts off all, or some of their senses as he desires. This ability does not reach full effect instantly, as Jane's ability does, but creeps upon the victim. In the movie, he channels the power through his hands; it takes the form of a visible black smoke that slowly moves toward his target, though he can retract it with his mind. In Breaking Dawn, Alec tries to cut off the Cullen's and their witnesses senses. It appeared as a mist, but had no effect on them due to Bella's shield."

It's a slow moving mist with no real reason for us to assume a thunder clap wouldn't disperse it.

Thor having the ability to fly and spam AoE lightning and ground slams, and the team has a chance. With the current stips, no way.

The team only "has a chance" if Thor can do all the things you say? Bro, Thor alone stomps this fight if he is allowed to go all out. Most everybody dies from the lightning spam, and anyone left alive can't harm Thor with their hits.

Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

YouTube video

None do.

Originally posted by Surtur
None of them are strong enough to do any physical damage to the likes of Hulk or Thor.

Strength also does vary, yep: random featless Underworld vamp or Twilight vampire are getting one shotted by Thor or Hulk.

It's a slow moving mist with no real reason for us to assume a thunder clap wouldn't disperse it.

The team only "has a chance" if Thor can do all the things you say? Bro, Thor alone stomps this fight if he is allowed to go all out. Most everybody dies from the lightning spam, and anyone left alive can't harm Thor with their hits.

Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

YouTube video

None do.

How do you know that none of them are strong enough to hurt Hulk or Thor? Seems you're assuming much.

Edward is strong enough to uproot a tree without much effort and the vamps are strong enough to crush marble and stone without effort. And we haven't even seen the upper limits of their strength. To assume that Hulk and Thor won't be hurt by clearly superhuman opponents seems to verge on a no limits fallacy.

And even if they can't harm him, Hulk can't hit them anyway. So they run around and tire Hulk out, because we've seen that Hulk does get tired and winded

Originally posted by Surtur
Hell, Hulk hits Thor and all we see is a small amount of blood is drawn and Thor smiles. Not a single person from Twilight or Underworld hits with the strength and force of the Hulk or Hulk. No, not even that one guy. Also no, not even that other vampire you are thinking of or even that other other vampire you might be thinking of, none do.

😆 Not even the other vampire that's thinking of the vampire I'm thinking of? Ya, that's about my knowledge on the Twilight stuff, because it's "turribull" (Charles Barkley version of "terrible"😉 entertainment.

For reals tho, the EXTREME numbers difference plus Thor having a gimping put on him = IMO, a loss of the team. We're talking like 200+ vs 4.

I would be on the sidelines cheering for team MCU though.

In the other Twilight vs. MCU thread I placed my bet on the MCU team, but that's because the numbers were even.

Originally posted by FrothByte
In the other Twilight vs. MCU thread I placed my bet on the MCU team, but that's because the numbers were even.

Ya, plus in that one there are two Thanos-type of villains (sit in chairs, look menacing): Marcus and Caius who never did anything except look bored and be a discount Dante from Devil May Cry.

Originally posted by FrothByte
1. Hulk may get angrier as he gets hit but he also gets hurt. Abom showed that with enough hits Hulk isn't able to get angry enough to counter getting nearly knocked out. Hulk's "getting stronger as he gets angrier" isn't linear. You don't just keep adding strength in proportion to the number of hits he takes. It also takes him time to grow in strength. A couple dozen vamps swarming him will overpower him before he has a chance to get angry enough.

So besides the speed, I don’t see Hulk being knock out just irritated as shown in the videos I posted previously.

Originally posted by FrothByte
2. You forget that they also have a vampire who can see the future. That's a huge advantage which will tell them how best to deal with Hulk. If it shows that the best strategy to do that is for no vamps to engage Hulk and for Jasper to simply try and calm him down while dodging his attacks then that's what will happen. The team has no answer at all for this precog advantage.

Originally posted by FrothByte
3. Yes vampire strength varies, however, the strongest of them are the newborns and they just so happen to be the most numerous as well. Which means majority of the vampire grunts that will be attacking will have the most physical strength.

Originally posted by FrothByte
4. I never questioned Hulk's strength. But you seem to underestimate the vampire's strength. While none of them can toss a tank like Hulk did, uprooting a tree isn't that far behind. Heck, that monster poodle in Hulk 2003 couldn't even break through a car's windshield and Hulk had trouble with 3 of them. Could you image what 100 vampires would do to Hulk?

You seem to be trying to find a way to diminish the impact of numbers here. Your points would carry more weight if the fodder were all weak and easily destroyed. But each vampire is not only very strong and tough in their own right, they're also ridiculously fast. It would be like a barracuda taking on a school of piranha.

Is this Ang Lee Hulk or MCU Hulk or an amalgam of his best showings?

i'm believe it is a composite of each character with their best showings.

Good point except for this, Abom is much stronger than any Vamp. So, lets go with the number theory. Would you say that Marcus and Selene is the strongest of all Vamps in both Universes? It took Marcus two arms to pull down a helicopter. It also took Marcus a lot of strength to pull up the wall that trapped him. Videos below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpxhO1m8lgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw8FO7eRAoY
Capt America was able to hold a helicopter pulling away with one arm. He pulled it down rather quickly with two arms. Spiderman is much stronger than Capt and Hulk is much stronger than Spiderman. So I would say that the Hulk and Abom equal quite a few Marcus. Marcus was pretty much unstoppable among Vamps in the movie besides pump up Selena.

So besides the speed, I don’t see Hulk being knock out just irritated as shown in the videos I posted previously.

First off, I don't consider Marcus or Selene the strongest vamps (mostly because I don't recall most of their feats) but let me address your point about helicopters.

First of all, Cap did not stop that chopper with just one hand. He used both hands, one of was holding on to a fixed structure. Braced against a fixed structure. Let that settle in for a second. Marcus on the other hand pulled down a helicopter without grabbing on to anything. That is a lot harder. Also, there's a huge difference between pulling down a helicopter and just stopping it from taking off. Cap did not cause the helicopter to crash, that was Winter Soldier crashing the helicopter. Cap only stopped it from taking off, he wasn't strong enough to bring it down.

Now, watch some of the fight scenes of the twilight vampires. They can jump a hundred feet through the air and their normal hits send their opponents flying dozens of meters through the air. Compare that to Thor, he doesn't jump that powerfully nor does he send his opponents flying as casually, at least not without Mjolnir.

Yet he was strong enough to turn Hulk 360 with a single punch. As far as strength feats go, the vamps actually have better strength feats than Thor, and yet Thor was already strong enough to hurt Hulk even without Mjolnir.

I also don't think you understand just how hard it is to uproot a tree. Someone posted some physics about it some time ago, I don't recall now, but I'm pretty sure it was quite a few tons. And though that's not as heavy as a tank, it's close enough that Hulk won't be able to take on too many vampires with that kind of strength. Take note that Edward put little effort into pushing that tree whereas Hulk had to gain momentum to throw that tank like he did.

Plus there's no getting around the fact that no one on the MCU team can even lay a hand on the vampires. They're just too fast.